Most Pretentious Moments In Prog
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Topic: Most Pretentious Moments In Prog
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Subject: Most Pretentious Moments In Prog
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 05:45
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What moments in 70's prog made even us prog obsessives think "JESUS CHRIST WHAT A t**t"!!! For me it's Keith Emersons Piano Concerto No.1 a great piece of music but giving E,L and P a side of the album Greg Lake does his songs Carl Palmer does some classical covers and other drum songs...i know why doesn't Keith emerson write his own Concerto for Orchestra. Edit: this thread has been misinterpreted by some people, it isn't about prog as a genre being pretentious or suggesting that is a bad thing, it is about the moments in prog where it got out of hand and it was just pure self indulgence, like ELP's Works i could never relate too this album much, the supporting live CD - In Concert however i did enjoy
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Replies:
Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 07:02
The Lamb. All of it  =F= Edit: inserted smiley  ------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: otto pankrock
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:42
| TFTO-Absolute sludge. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:49
You have failed. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
otto pankrock wrote:Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:54
| the lyrics to Rush's song "The Trees" from Hemispheres |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:56
EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:33
that comment was an epic fail the lamb epic wasnt a fail haha -------------
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:34
tales haters need putting in their place -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:36
Seconded.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:58
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This is pretentious, silly and unnecessary.
But normally pretentious is good, if compared with conformist.....I go with pretentious.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:32
i loved the flying piano there is a difference between entertainment and pretentiousness and i think ELP stayed on the right side of that line until the Works albums and tour -------------
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Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:36
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Pretentiousness doesn't mean bad. The fact that TFTO is based on the works of Paramahansa Yogananda is one of the reasons I love prog; it is a genre of music that is unafraid to experiment and try new things even if it they risk ridicule for doing it. |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:37
being pretentious is what prog is all about but this thread is about when it was taken too far and i don't think tales was one of them -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:37
Thirded |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 13:54
Not listening to it because of this thread, it is just an (un)happy coincidence.
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: Propu
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:03
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Well, I don't understand very well what you mean with "Pretentious", so I'll tell many moments I felt kinda... euphoric... while listening to prog :D -The Story Of The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles. -The 2 totally symphonic minutes between the Willow Farm and the Apocalypse in 9/8 of Genesis's Supper's Ready -Apocalypse in 9/8 -Atom Heart Mother Suite. The GORGEOUS Atom Heart Mother Suite, I would add. -Par Lindh Project - Baroque Impression No.1 -Ayreon - A lot of Ayreon's songs, Amazing Flight, Day 20 - Confrontation, many others. -Minstrel. Almost every single song of theirs. I think I've been quite prolific :P
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Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:18
ELP Tarkus. I strongly dislike the album, but that's just me...  -------------  
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Posted By: kole
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:43
Do we have another fail?! |
Posted By: Progist
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:49
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Wakeman's cape, most of Gabriels stage outfits,Tubular Bells, Carl Palmer's flying drum platform, Michael Moorcock doing 'Sonic Attack'. All of these things are a bit like watching 'The Office', they are brilliant, but they make you cringe the whole time. "I shouldn't be enjoying this"!!
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:54
Just about anything Rick Wakeman did 
I mean. On Ice . ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:57
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None - If people just looked at ridiculous "celebrities" such as the Big Brother mob, Cheryl Cole, bloody Jordan, "Madge" Madonna running around in catsuits when she's old enough to be most of the audiences mother, they would realise that is true pretension. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 15:05
haha this made my day very true -------------
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Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 18:48
It takes up two entire LPs, in all fairness TFTO deserves a mention too Now, Quadrophenia on the other hand, is a masterpiece. ------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: Tarquin Underspoon
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 18:52
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The real answer here is Thick as a Brick.
I find it completely hilarious that, after 40-odd years, we are STILL being had by Ian Anderson's overtly pretentious send-up of a genre. It's in our top 10, for crying out loud. Then again, it really is awfully good...
....And this, my friends, is what we call "irony". ------------- "WAAAAAAOOOOOUGH! WAAAAAAAUUUUGGHHHH!! WAAAAAOOOO!!!" -The Great Gig in the Sky |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 19:06
As a fact this wasn't Rick's fault.
He had a 3 heart attacks very young and he had made a terrible contract with A&M (Almost slavery for what I read), so he was told he would not play anymore.
After he was told to retire by the doctors he wrote The Last Battle that same night and also most of King Arthur in the Wexham Park Hospital,
So he was very short of money,.and due to the fact he faced his mortality, wanted to leave money to his family. He accepted a series of concerts in Wembley in 1975 (shortly after his heart attack), but there was an ice show simultaneously
The Ice show had a previous contract, so he had two options:
Being that he required money, he couldn't afford any of the two options, he dis what any responsible "pater familias" would had done, make the show and accept the critics in order to get some bucks.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 19:13
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Actually, Kayo Dot's DAWCT. They are so pretentious they really think 14 minutes of unchanged repetition is great music... ------------- 
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Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 20:43
Agreed!
Same with Tarkus haters! 
I am thirsty of blood! ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 20:51
True! but fun to watch!
Some math rock is absurdly pretentious (LIFT YOUR SKINNY FISTS LIKE ANTENNAS TO HEAVEN)... it makes ELP and Yes look like conformist kids... I love pretentious music! ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 21:45
I really really dislike the part where a voice introduces all the instruments in Mike Olfield's Tubular Bells. Big deal!  Felt it was very condescending and self-important.
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Posted By: Tarquin Underspoon
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 21:49
Yep. This ruins Tubular Bells for me. ------------- "WAAAAAAOOOOOUGH! WAAAAAAAUUUUGGHHHH!! WAAAAAOOOO!!!" -The Great Gig in the Sky |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 21:51
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Ditto. I sort of lost interest in the song after that 'announcement'...I know it's not a logical thing but that's how it is.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 21:59
I kind of agree with this too but in a different way. I find stuff like Nightwish or Metallica's S&M (not to mention Scorpions's own symphony + rock effort) more pretentious because it, at least to me, feels like an attempt to pass off the music as something more sophisticated than it really is. I don't know why people would call the old prog bands' attempts to bring jazz and classical influences to rock pretentious because, if anything, they were trying to give a different and possibly more resonant context for such music so that rock fans could relate to it. It seems like adventure is equated to pretension when it comes to prog. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 22:06
I like that part.  |
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 22:39
Me too! ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 03:36
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I don't agree that the flying piano thing was pretentious.It was pure showbiz and a lot of fun (and a little bit dangerous for the protagonist)
I do however agree with Works Volume One, Lamb and TFTO. Long double sided prog albums are all (with one exception) a complete pain and certainly represent the point when some famous prog bands 'jumped the shark'.(The exception is Aphrodites Child '666')
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 13:42
It was meant to be funny in a kind of schoolboy way - that's why Stanshall was asked to do it (after, apparently, Cleese refused). ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 13:54
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I do have to agree with TFTO. I enjoy the album but it definitely seems to be the point when prog became too much for the mainstream to handle. Interestingly enough, I've never really seen the charge of "pretentious" levelled at King Crimson. Is that because the critics were more accepting of them, or just because Yes and ELP were easier targets? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 14:01
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There's nothing from '70's prog that I would categorize as pretentious. All of the critics that pooped out that word with regard to prog are another matter.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 14:05
Simple answer to that question - it's because Fripp had a hissyfit after Red in 1974, and did no more KC until the early 80's. All of the snot nosed, gobby punks had thrown their vitriol at the prevalent bands in 76 or 77 like Floyd, Yes, et al. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 15:39
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 17:00
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I second the opinion that the prog masters in their golden years were not any more pretentious than many other pop-rock stars such as Michael Jackson, Madonna or Kylie Minogue. Freddy Mercury has my respect for his wonderful music in early Queen but he was a master of pretentiousness like few others.
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Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 17:25
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How about Pink Floyd touring in 1977 with those huge inflatable animals and only playing outdoor stadiums? And I love the LP Animals, btw. Knock knock Who's there? Punk rock The door's open!
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Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 17:51
There is no "fairness" in prog. Everbody who listens is judge, jury, and executioner. The anarchy of the genre is reflected in the music. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Tales From Topographic Oceans are masterpieces. They are what separate prog fans from popular rock fans. PS My post may be The Most Pretentious Moment on this site. |
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 18:06
I'm not so sure. If you cloak pretentiousness in parody and welcome it with irony, what do you get? Something, no doubt. But is it really a pretentious moment?  |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 12:40
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Most prog metal lyrics. ------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 13:02
Show me a spectacle, or any work of art that does not utterly conform to mainstream expectations, that can't be labeled pretentious from a certain point of view, paticularly as time passes and tastes change. I think that if an artist does not have the courage to risk being called pretentious he/she is not much of an artist. Also, especially where live performances are concerned, we need to remember that big stadium rock, prog or otherwise (ex. the flying piano), is largely about spectacle--the shared experience of spectacle. Of course it's pretentious. It's supposed to be. That's part of the fun. 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 13:10
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Brain Salad Surgery. They realised they were good and started acting like it. Unfortunately they could never compare to things like their first album, Pictures, and the single good song on Tarkus (tarkus). ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 13:14
So all 'spectacle' is pretentious?
 I think we are getting away from the point. Spectacle can be just visual and impressive without having an air of pretentiousness.Or it can have meaning and a message (perhaps hidden). If the band think it dentotes something more important than what it is ..then its pretentious.The flying piano clearly has no meaning whatsover so in my mind carries no real pretentious aspect that I can discern (just pure showbiz). On the other hand a rock musician performing a self composed piano concerto with a large orchestra very obviously is pretentious. I think the lines can easily be drawn.
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Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 17:46
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David Byron on the Uriah Heep Live album. An unaware parody of a rock singer.
Huge drum sets, even if you use every one.
Triple-necked bass guitars.
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 18:38
I totally agree. I mean, does he really need to chew that chewing gum while performing? ------------- |
Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 21:06
Fair enough. I see your point.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 22:03
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Is pretentious a bad thing? Aiming to achieve higher planes? IMHO nothing in prog rock is badly pretentious though personal taste dictates perception. I find that dumbed down pop music (i.e. the producers assume the audience is so stupid as to accept one chord no melody type cut and paste songs) to be arrogant, patronsing and insulting. Prog rock does not talk down to it's audience. Certainly much may be oblique but this after all cerebral music. it can be a challenge until you get used to the idea. Move on to Magma then... Imagine (if you can) Tales as a pop chorus type effort... doesn't scan. Lamb Lies Donw has some top tunes Ititle track. IT), a great atmosphere and a sense of the absurd a dig at Broadway, the Rolling Stones and unauthorised and impromptu sex changes. Only knock and know all... To accuse music of pretension... is this not the equivant of trying to keep chains on it, only have parameters of expression that are within the collective good...? Actually when I saw this title in this thread I thought this might be a good comedy moment. Flowers on heads and flying pianos, swirling capes and make up etc... the more shall we say, superficial elements of this music as deemed necessary to get the content htrough to an audience whose taste is / has been "guided" by an industry are funny - to varying extents. These bits are the entertainment.. Not that verything released is a total success but that's our individual taste - allowed to be unconfined by fashion industry diktat. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 00:46
| ^ 'Pretentiousness' is bad if the band is overstretching themselves. Lamb has some wonderfull songs but why exactly does it need so much filler to make it a double? Possibly for innocent reasons just to provide enough material for a grand theatrical experience which would be fair enough. But isn't there also an element of self aggrandisement..oh look at us we can do a double album with obscure ideas and look intellectually superior as a result..? Thats pretentious! |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 02:32
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Tony Banks has said in interviews that there was a little bit of filler material on Lamb. Some of this is music that is / was part of the theatrical experience - probably giving Gabriel plenty of time to look like a human haemmorhoid i.e. change costumes. Not sure about the self aggrandisement bit. They were in such a hurry to get6 it finished they probably would have settled for a single LP just to ease the pressure. But it is the sort of work that needs a fair bit of room to be portrayed. Nowadays it would be a single CD (probably) and no one would blink an eye. But a multi box set of wax cylinders... oops I mean 2 record set had to be it. Genesis never quite struck me as the sort of gys who might think how wonderful and superior they are (despite having the public school education.) This sort of interview would be interesting but I really think their own intelligence and demeanour stops them from being too obviously pratty. It was really the punk press (here we go..  .) that fostered these ideas. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 02:50
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Squire's stage attire in this Youtube clip is pretty damn pretentious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzm_ANpcJhk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzm_ANpcJhk GREAT song, though! There was a better version on YouTube (more in sync), but I guess it got yanked. Ahhh...the good old days, Squire wearing capes, big boots etc.!! And thin!! Happens to the best of us!
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:52
Not convinced that having bad fashion sense is really pretentious. Rush used to wear similar things around Caress Of Steel time (1975) but have admitted this was just because they wanted to wear jeans and t-shirts but at the time you were'nt allowed to!
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Posted By: Nightshine
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:58
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Dream Theater. /thread |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 15:56
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Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:15
Pretentious is defined as: having or creating a deceptive outer appearance of great worth; ostentatious. It is something that has the appearance of worth, without possessing actual worth; it's a derogatory term. So wouldn't it be more accurate to say that prog is ambitious, rather than pretentious? Just a thought. Also:
Persuasive argument. You have swayed my mind with your profound insight. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:20
I agree completely and I think lazland also addressed it as did I. I think pretentious is being interpreted here or these days in general as taking oneself too seriously. But what is too seriously? Is the listener not getting ahead of himself in deciding when an artist is taking himself too seriously? Pretentious just seems to be shorthand for long length of track and verbose lyrics.That's just ambition and for God's sake, there's nothing wrong with ambition even if it may not always produce the best results. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:55
All prog is 'ambitious'. Genesis were not really diferent than other bands its just that they had more intellectual clout within their midst to say ELP or Yes and were prepared to make the most of it. However on a taste level I actually prefer Genesis after Gabriel left (up to and inc Duke) as the music grabs me emotionally yet still retains powerfull musical ideas.Thats not to say that I don't appreciate Genesis with Gabriel but I get the feeling that they were just too clever for their own good and Lamb represents a tipping point where Genesis and prog in general was in distinct danger of disappearing up its own anus (although as I've said it does contain many wonderfull moments).
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 01:32
Those who accused prog rockers of pretention were doing so for divisive political reasons. It was just an insult out of mean spirited-ness. 
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 01:41
What does? The anus? And many more to come? Seriously not all prog is ambitious, Many bands who play in a symphonuc rock style nowm who were not innovative (e.g. Satarcastle? to Wobbler) are not breaking new ground but sounding ever so retro. It may work well in introducing new audiences to the music so it's not necessarily a bad thing. But then originality is a difficult beast so I don't want to negatively critise, just make an observation about prog rock and ambition. cheers |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: June 09 2010 at 01:57
Hahaha... It's a GREAT album, but it's true that it was actually Anderson poking fun at the genre and trying to be as overblown and pretentious as possible! It was intended to be a joke! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Phideaux
Date Posted: July 04 2010 at 00:31
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What I love is that art rock music can both be a joke and be serious. It's not so set in its ways as is pop music, or even Jazz (although I suppose some Jazz can be playful). Thank the Gods for spectacle (and spec-a-tacles) and ambition and indulgence. Sometimes a band wants to make a double album because they want to stretch out and have a bit of fun and create something that "breathes" a little. You call it "filler", I call it a rare opportunity to see someone's more "raw" creative ideas. Single albums sometimes are so manicured it's hard to feel the outer edges of possibility. Yay for the pretentious moments in progressive rock! |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: July 04 2010 at 00:35
Nonetheless, the intent does not undermine the quality; lucky for us! ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 04 2010 at 01:52
 ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: idoownu
Date Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:02
 Tubular Bells Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:16
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The single moment I hate most in all of prog is when Geddy Lee blurts out in his corny "Angelic" drone: ...And the meek shall inherit the earth. Gosh, it's so self important and cheesy! Oh, and boy is it dumb! I mean, Beefheart could sleep-talk more engaging lyrics and content. It's not even a real Anthem inspiration! Peart butchers the ideology of the text. That, and he turns it into this corny space fantasy pack of overlong sewer.... Ahem, boy, I sure do like Rush a good deal! |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:19
That's what bonus tracks are for. Keep the album as hard-hitting and concise as possible as to not dilute the potency of the work. |
Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:20
I don't think there was even one word there that I even come close to agreeing with. To each his own, I suppose.....
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: July 15 2010 at 14:24
I agree with you, completely. I'd take 40 minutes of amazing material over 100 minutes of whatever. Hell, most bands aren't even worth a 40 minute LP, and should just toss half their standard album material. No one wants all of Under Wraps, baby... |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: July 16 2010 at 20:04
There is a point here. I actually think Toby Driver is todays best composer, but he does have his incredibly pretentious moments, specially in that album... but I love his work! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: jonathanbasnett
Date Posted: July 26 2010 at 16:16
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: July 26 2010 at 20:00
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ELP had the ambition to translate existing classical music in a cross between 20th Century classical and rock. In fact they were probably the least rock (though highly energetic) prog band out there. They had humour (for which they are castigated, had they not they would be vilified even more.) They had great ability and progressed from calssical arrangements to things suck as KE ( a monument piece. Afterward things tended to tail off as they lost momentum. IMHO Lake's ballads on Works are lame at best embarrassing at worst. The Concerto is fine, the ELPieces are excellent. It suffers from a slight Ummagumma problem in that the collective arrnagements and creative input arte lackiung where they are needed. Sahme as palmer's side is not bad, just needed some tunes. Works 2 is actually a little better but the end is in sight. ELP were wildly ambitious, successful for the most part and took chances with a huge abundance of talent. This does not mean someone has to like / dislike anything. Like Quentin TRrantino remarked in a DVD interview; he could make the greatest slapstick movie ever but if you don't like slapstick you ain't gonna like it no matter how good it is. Just as well, as I can't stand slapstick. Now for pretentious... which means to me ambition (fine), unconvincing (uh oh), released, (oh lord), still artist approved (you gotta be crazy..)... The Nice, lead vocal in Dawn. Sorry kids but the music, while great in a Careful With That Axe Eugene suspenseful kind of way (so far so good,) is let down by this whispered campy overly dramatic vocal that makes me want it deleted and reissued as an instrumental. Even though he wasn't the greatest vocalist out there, this is really the only Lee Jackson vocal I think was misjudged (with The Nice), not a bad average. Plus I hate sl*gging artists off, they put themselves on the line and courage has to be respected. Mind you I still can't get round the Eloy vocals... I am so glad that many bands playing art rock now are happy as instrumental acts (NeBeLNeST, Djam Karet) as not all can provide convincing vocals (Riverside, P Tree.) I did once hear a rumour that Jon Anderson wanted to writre/ produce a hip hop opera. I dunno what happened to this (suitably applied otherwise absent medication?) but the very idea of this has me gasping for negative superlatives. In between fits of laughter of course. Would, um, this have been pretentious, given the criteria above? |
Posted By: DamoSuzuki
Date Posted: July 27 2010 at 12:34
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"THERE'S NO EEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD, TO MY LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE, NO BEGINNING, TO MY DEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHH, DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTHHH IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE" *BOOM!* |
Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: July 27 2010 at 12:42
Well you don't have to shout about it. 
------------- 
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 27 2010 at 12:49
I get the feeling he's not the real Damo...  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 27 2010 at 19:27
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Hi,
Pretentious leaves way too much room for personal preferences.
But in my 40 years of this experimental, far out and anything except radio music, I have to tell you that there were a couple of things I really thought ... were bad and washed out ... and they both belonged to Rick Wakeman. Which to me was a poor man's classical musician ... played glorified versions of music he even did not care about much! And on top of it doing things with it to help him get laughed off the stage!
Sorry. I really thought that was pretentious ... when you compare it to Vangelis and Schulze and other massive composers that made a living out of doing solid work, all of a sudden Mr. Wakeman was just another rock'n'roller star ... he never made it to serious musician in my book! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 08:47
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Pretentious. Try to go far beyond the bounderies that everybody expects about something. In the prog rock not means bad, and sometimes is really great.
Supper's ready
The lamb lies down
Tales from topographic
Thick as a brick
Karn evil and other things of ELP
Someting from Gentle Giant
Something from Spock's Beard
Not like much all of this but this is really pretentious
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Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 08:57
Needs more scatting.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 09:07
hahahhaha... bravo!  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Antennas
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 11:16
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Some very interesting contributions in this thread.
But the most pretentious thing ever to do is filling up your CD with 10, 20 minutes of total SILENCE before the thing finally ends. Very off-putting imho.
One of my favourite records EVER. ------------- 
Jesus never managed to figure out the theremin either |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 11:23
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I forgot to mention GY!BE, oh yes... ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dan Locke
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 22:14
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Pawn Hearts. All of it. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 21:04
You do know what this was all about right?
Weird that you would be dissing pretentious about something that is totally anti-pretentious!
Downright hilarious! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 00:20
And totally blown out of proportion. It was done twice. Is it really more so than Peter Gabriel being lifted into the air? no ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: krishl
Date Posted: August 06 2010 at 14:05
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I vote for Keith Emerson's Spinning Piano, which I saw in Charlotte in 1975 or thenabouts. Loved it. On the other hand, Rolling Stone's review of Yes's Relayer in 1974 called it pretentious balderdash, and they didn't even know that this poll was going to be on progarchives 36 years later! |
Posted By: cjgone
Date Posted: August 07 2010 at 00:20
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Emerson's piano skills. :D Sounds awesome tho. ------------- Technical death metal <3. |
Posted By: thechrisl
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 21:21
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ELP -- The Endless Enigma pt. 2 when the vocals kick in. Mainly because it is wedged clumsily in between two of their best tracks: Fugue and From The Beginning. See also 80% of Dream Theater. |
Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 21:45
Why does DT get so much hate around here? I'm thoroughly baffled. There are certainly much more pretentious prog bands then Dream Theater, that's for sure.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 23:37
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Is this bad pretentious? (I assume so.) Or good pretentious? (as many qualify their responses.) U2 used to be one of those new wave bands that decried Yes and Wakeman especially. Apparently their criticism was born not from what's RW and Yes played but Mr Wakeman's capes. I don't know if such superficial criticism is pretentious but I had the reltive fortune to see a new U2 DVD (in a shop en passant) and Bono is dressed in lots of pink fluoresence. He warbled "Baby, baby, baby...' dull (one note bass lines that make Christopher Squire sound like Satriani) music boomed and the programmed sycophants (my pretentious term for the audience) cried out for more. As someone recently observed The Eade was on a tour and got trapped inside a giant Lemon for half an hour. As life imitates Spianl Tap... I find little pretentious (but alot very ambitious) in prog rock and other sub genres around it. But when so called working class heroes who decry ambitious rock music and then take the more superficial aspects (do them v.v. badly) then get lauded for this historic hypocrisy; now this to me is pretentious, the very bad sort. There'a lot in the prog related area I'm not into much - from The Beatles to Dream Theater though I do have one album of each. But this is just ambition. You don't get advanced composition with all that comes with it without ambition. Sometimes things might not work out for some listeners but boy do these bands really deserve the verbal lynching they get? DT getting slayed ... for playing music? I read some critcisms elsewhere of Guns 'n' Roses (not a big favourite of mine, November Rain being an example to me of pretension) but do they get some pasting from people. Wishing Rose is dead? Why? Singing for G n R? Dream Theater getting hate posts? Or the vilification / idolatry of Waters' Floyd' Final Cut PA reviews. Now there's some hate going on there. Of course all this negativity reaches it's nadir with Dimebag Darrell (Pantera ) being gunned down by some lunatic, same with the more notorious murder of John Lennon. Probably not quite what the thread was about (pretension not hate) but related here and there. Just thought it might be a good idea to not take some band's recordings so personally if this is the consequence. As FZ said to the guy in the audience (1969 Appleton) who was screaming madly "stop it, you'll hurt yourself." |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 01:09
There's an angel standing in the sun, and he's crying with a loud voice,
"This is the supper of the mighty One", The Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Has returned to lead His children home, To take them to the new Jerusalem. It was part of te story, but it went wrong and he almost died.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: thechrisl
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 10:32
No hate, I like some of their stuff, sometimes. Just answering the question, tongue in cheek, somewhat. On a similar note, I've determined that one indicator of pretentiousness is how frequently the words "time" and "eternity" are used in the titles or lyrics. |
Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 13:11
| I've been wondering...are we all using the same definition of pretentious here? Based on what I've read in this thread, it seems to mean different thing to different people. Personally, I see pretentiousness as a bad thing, yet I've seen repeated mentions of "good pretentiousness". Can someone clarify what that would be? To call something pretentious is to insult it, isn't it? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 14:43
I believe pretentious is a wrong term for Prog.
I know it's theatrical exagerate sometimes, pompous, etc (And what, we love it that way). but pretentious is making unjustified claims, and this guys claim nothing, they offer art in exchange for the money we pay for their albums and concerts...And usually they give more than they get..
The term pretentious was used by maintream critics who were unable to understand Prog, so if the can't get it...they must be pretending to be better than they are....That's called mediocrity IMO.
But as I said before, I rather be called called pretentious than conformist.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 14:53
Didn't you know? Dream Theater is the antichrist. Everything they do is bad. Everything they do has no soul and emotion and every part of every song is endless shredding. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 14:54
??? |
Posted By: thechrisl
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 16:03
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Not 100% true all the time (i.e. Floyd) but it's a pretty good barometer. BTW I can't take this thread too seriously. Hopefully no one else is. I guess it's hard because, for example, the guy who mentioned the vocals in 2112 might make me question my own taste in music because I loves me some 2112. But I won't let that happen... In my mind there are different flavors of "pretentious". It doesn't always mean "bad". It may just mean "cheesy" but good. In some cases I'd call it a guilty pleasure - something I might let myself enjoy once in a while but don't listen to all the time because it doesn't really move me (maybe I should add "any more"). I'm tempted to use 80s metal as an example in order to get away from specific prog bands. Occasionally I still love cranking up a classic song by Accept, Motley Crue's first album, maybe some Triumph ("Time Goes By" anyone?). It feels good for a bit, brings back old times. But I usually move on pretty quickly. So yeah, I do that with ELP and DT too. |
Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 16:22
So then aren't you just changing the definition of pretentious to whatever you want it to be? If the music is cheesy, then call it cheesy. If it can have so many possible meanings then it no longer really serves a purpose.
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