Which is the best USA prog band of all time?
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68277
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Topic: Which is the best USA prog band of all time?
Posted By: desistindo
Subject: Which is the best USA prog band of all time?
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:16
| Well, since i dont like Dream Theater im not sure, but i would say Yezda Urfa, maybe. Some people worship Kansas too, but for me its not very good... |
Replies:
Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:22
 Mirthrandir-For You the Old Women ------------- BeGiantForADay "This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix." http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:28
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I think "all-time" would mean either Kansas or Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention. ------------- 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:35
In no order: Tortoise, The Mars Volta, Kayo Dot, Frank Zappa, John Zorn, Explosions In The Sky, Don Caballero, Battles, Yezda Urfa, Birds and Buildings, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Cynic, Blotted Science, Miles Davis, Weather Report, Chick Corea, Return To Forever, Isis, The Decemberists, Russian Circles, Subterranean Masquerade, Steve Tibbetts, etc etc. Amazing scene! 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:41
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Zappa, I suppose, but the US destroys every other country in prog metal (Sweden comes close): Fates Warning Queensryche Dream Theater Kamelot Shadow Gallery Cynic Savatage Crimson Glory Symphony X ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 07:43
| Yeah, i think Zappa its the best, indeed. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 08:12
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Kayo Dot. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 08:17
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Dream Theater. ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 08:19
Babylon 
------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 09:56
|
in Symphonic Prog-Starcastle in fusion-Contraband |
Posted By: SergiUriah
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 10:12
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KANSAS in the 70s. FATES WARNING. DREAM THEATER. ------------- http://img229.imageshack.us/i/bonfirma.jpg/"> 
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Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 10:18
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Hmm.. let's see: probably the Mars Volta, Kayo Dot, maudlin of the Well, and Zappa. -------------  
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 10:48
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Spock's Beard/Neal Morse
------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 10:50
| Uncle Frank, of course. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 11:20
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I'd have to say Zappa. Neal Morse Spock's Beard Return to Forever
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Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 11:28
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The Muffins. ------------- ''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.'' - Albert Camus |
Posted By: CyberDiablo
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:30
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Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention also; Kansas ------------- Music is some kind of art. -- Anonymous |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:31
| echolyn |
Posted By: CyberDiablo
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:35
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But anyway, you know progressive rock is: "mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic
credibility"
------------- Music is some kind of art. -- Anonymous |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:41
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Some good ones listed already. Don't leave out The Dregs. And don't forget Santana. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:43
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Is Santana U.S. or Mexico? -------------
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Posted By: SergiUriah
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:49
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He´s Mexican, from Jalisco. ------------- http://img229.imageshack.us/i/bonfirma.jpg/">
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:49
Ooooooh, Dregs, good one! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 12:53
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Do I even have to say? Zappa. (Although The Mars Volta is pretty excellent as well.) |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 13:08
Carlos is Mexican, but the Santana band formed in 'Frisco. |
Posted By: Tarquin Underspoon
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 13:11
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You know, I didn't really think about how few enduring prog acts we have here in the states.
It's a bit embarrassing, frankly  ------------- "WAAAAAAOOOOOUGH! WAAAAAAAUUUUGGHHHH!! WAAAAAOOOO!!!" -The Great Gig in the Sky |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:26
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^ I agree completely... makes us look bad... -------------
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:29
The bands are there, you just rarely hear about them because there aren't live venues here for them to play as there are in Europe... Yes, there is a hint of my own bitterness here. ;-) ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:38
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Kansas, followed extremely closely by Echolyn.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:38
| What do you mean few? There is lots of prog in the states, IMO the problem with the states is that the fans for such niche genres are too wide spread on a huge area of land, making it very difficult for niche (ergo not rich nor heavily backed) bands to invest in touring. On the contrary, if you want to make a short Western European tour comprising, say, Amsterdam, The Hague, Bruxelles, Luxembourg, Koln, Frankfurt, Paris and London, that would imply 3-4 hours max. car drives from one city to another. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:47
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No love for Kit Watkins and Happy The Man ?
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 16:50
| If The Tubes counted it would be them. Otherwise Glass Hammer. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 17:16
| Espers |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 21:04
| Frank Zappa, Happy the Man, and The Muffins. |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 21:07
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In no particular order: Frank Zappa ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 21:16
| Urfa, with nods to Cartoon and Happy the Man |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 06:23
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Dream Theater
Shadow Gallery
or Rush - do they count? ------------- 
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Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 09:54
Happy The Man rulez!
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 12:37
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Todd Rundgren did some good things too.
And venturing a bit to the borders of actual prog, guitarists such as Steve Vai and Shawn Lane.
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Posted By: DASistGrantTeeL
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 20:59
omg! dude i love that album but no one ever seems to know about it!!!! ------------- "This dream is all I’ve ever wanted, Cared for, I only hope things haven’t changed when I awake…" |
Posted By: DASistGrantTeeL
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 21:00
lol canadians dont count! ------------- "This dream is all I’ve ever wanted, Cared for, I only hope things haven’t changed when I awake…" |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 21:07
-------------
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Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 22:01
What about us up here in Canada?  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 22:23
Well, as soon as we get around to taking over the rest of the hemisphere...  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 22:25
| izz |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: June 12 2010 at 23:05
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Oh man, there's so many. Zappa Captain Beefheart Spock's Beard Neal Morse Mars Volta Mr. Bungle Magellan Primus Steve Morse Dixie Dregs Les Claypool Kevin Gilbert Paul Gilbert Frogg Cafe Savatage Cynic Half of Transatlantic I'm sure there's more I'm missing/haven't heard. Edit: Not all of these are listed in PA, but I don't care.
------------- 
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 13 2010 at 00:18
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Shadowfax, Spyro Gyra, Fareed Haque Group, and Kick the Cat all deserve mention in the jazz-rock fusion space. Kick the Cat gives classic Brand X a good run for their money!!
Chicago has its own little progressive music scene & has produced some fine musicians over the years, some of whom I haven't heard from in ages (Apprentice comes to mind). Apprentice nearly blew Brand X off the stage back in the early 1980's from what I've heard. Sorry for you Europeans, you don't know what you are missing over here! Chicago has it all, right now we are in the middle of the Chicago Blues Fest. Stop on by, but please note, we don't take Euros. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 13 2010 at 00:31
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Kansas Happy The Man IZZ Cryptic Vision Helmet of Gnats Frogg Cafe Nima and Merge Return to Forever Dixie Dregs Spock' Beard Echolyn Enchant Dream Theater Lots of great American Prog band around. I don't consider Frank Zappa to be progressive Rock. l I consider him to be in a class all by himself. ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: June 13 2010 at 02:23
You're right, that completely makes sense! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: t-bear
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:06
| For whatever reason Kansas has always annoyed me. No particular reason, just not my cup of tea. Advent is a serious contender. Kamelot is right up there. I think though for my money it would be Spock's Beard after the departure of Neil Morse. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:12
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In my opinion.... Spock's Beard/Neal Morse Echolyn Frank Zappa Kevin Gilbert Savatage Dream Theater Queensryche I'm probably forgetting a bunch... ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:12
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The Doors. Amazingly they are not considered to be prog by most prog listeners though. Strange; for me they always were.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: kplloyd
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:15
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Spock's Beard (with Neal Morse), without much hesitation. Honorable mentions to Echolyn, Happy the Man, Liquid Tension Experiment, and (some) Dream Theater. Kansas is among the fantastic bands that I consider to have pushed strongly in the prog direction, but not enough to be classified (by me, anyway) as prog. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 16:30
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Bloodrock, how could i forget Bloodrock they are not considered prog, though some of their music does come close (Bloodrock USA, for example) many people define the band according to their hit "DOA", but there is much more to the group than that actually, i would say that they would be my favourite American band |
Posted By: ZenDruid
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 18:04
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Some excellent one-offs from 'across the Pond', (such as Mithrandir) but longevity contributes to greatness to some extent...?
For the mainstream progger earlier Kansas and Starcastle come to mind fairly easily - also Land's End have proved consistently enjoyable over quite a few years, as have Magellan.
(Somebody mentioned Canada - are the Tea Party too rock-ist? 'Splendor Solis' and the two follow-ups were well worth an ear.)
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 14 2010 at 20:31
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I always considered The Tea Party to be prog, though I must admit I heard only one album of them.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: June 15 2010 at 18:02
 Hands down too. Because it's not jazzy or metal-y or any of that. It just glories in that rock we've come to call prog. Well, side one anyway. But I give about the same side-one leeway to Tarkus, so it counts. Bands? It ain't DT!  Zappa Beefheart Yezda Urfa BÖC Miles Davis at times Return to Forever Weather Report All I can think of right now. Best of all these? Sheesh. Zappa or Yezda Urfa, depending on your definition - not that there's any contest in terms of output (Zappa obviously amazing in multitudinous ways), but because Yezda was really making prog, really doing it (ie, putting aside the boring argument of whether prog exists, they were consciously making a music expressly to fit that bill). One last thing: Worst ever? Has to be Flight. Ooof, embarrassing, avoid at all costs. -------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Boxhead
Date Posted: June 15 2010 at 23:24
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How about Spirit with Randy California? Or there is another band called Prymary. Saw them at a small club and they are really tight. ------------- Klipsch, so much it Hz |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 15 2010 at 23:36
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Don't forget the Yanks who contributed to so many prog bands! Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Daryl Stuermer, etc. Also, I think the California Guitar Trio are all Yanks. I liked Kansas back in the '70's, but last time I saw them on TV, they were hurtin' for certain!! They looked more like ZZ Top!
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Posted By: caretaker
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 06:13
| I agree, for a country this size there aren't that many. My favorites are Kansas, Dream Theatre, Dixie Dregs and almost all those already mentioned. Also Umphrey's Magee. We have a band in New Orleans called Woodenhead that has been around since the 70's I think. They play all around the country and open for a lot of prog acts. |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 13:11
| Bits and pieces of Space Opera ruled. Give it a listen. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 13:21
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Classic prog band: Kansas
Modern: Can't choose one ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 16:27
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PAT METHENY!!! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 16:38
I get it ... so because you don't like it, it can't be rated!
Too bad. There are a lot of metal bands that are just sucking money off their fans, and at least one could have an admiration for the musicianship in DT.
It's hard to say, mostly because the American music scene is so bad and so commercially oriented, that making a call on which is "better" is almost ... SAD ... as in BAD ... but it is really hard to think of any band or group or whomever, that will ever surpass Frank Zappa, simply one of the best and most important composers in the 20th century along with Stravinsky.
That simple. The rest, for the most part is just rock music and not much else!
But the bad part is that bands like The Doors, should be considered, and that the folks that did alot of jazz stuff should also be considered. For all intents and puposes, one should really consider Miles Davis the most progressive of them all, but a lot of the "progressive" definition of things, do not like "jams" any more than they like "improvisations" and these were absolutely massive in the development of "progressive music". The difference was that in jazz you jammed around an instrument or note or sequence of notes ... whereas in the case of Jim Morrison, you had to jam and define something on the account of WORDS ... which is just as valid a process for creating music, but one that is really difficult unless you have a bunch of lunatics together that can talk to each other! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 16:44
I guess it is. Some favorites: Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band, Secret Chiefs 3, Non Credo and totally obscure symphonic/brass/jazz-prog (released in 71) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77rdBv9dEow - McLuhan . ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 16:52
Yes. DT are clearly the most legendary, best, and significant US prog band. It's a shame so many here 'don't like them' and won't recognise this. ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 21:05
How could i forget Shadowfax! Shadowfaz is awesome, there is the best! I dont know why, but i think i dont count Shadowfax cause in some way i though they are germany, lol! maybe because of the eletronic sound... |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 21:14
U not undertand me. I agree with you that DT may be the most representative USA prog band of all time, but for me they doesnt has the best sound. But i ssay that cause i dont like metal prog, maybe if i liked i would say DT for sure. |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 21:18
PM is prog?? |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 21:20
| Hey, harmonium, i liked this McLuhan brass sound, do you suggest any other prog brass band? |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 21:21
| It's still Espers. |
Posted By: cyclysm748
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 22:43
| No one has mentioned Death, which are one of my all time favorites. |
Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: June 16 2010 at 23:10
------------- 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 17 2010 at 03:33
What are you referring to?  I think you may be confusing me with someone else. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 17 2010 at 04:09
I quoted Harmonium, and linked to McLuhan. Get their only album http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=16104 - Anomaly first, then check out Probe 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1K804MHMMo - There is a Universe and C.A Quintet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHEeVl1zPLI - Trip Thru Hell . (both american, brassdriven, psychedelic protoprog). There's plenty of it if you like jazz fusion. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: June 17 2010 at 10:14
Carlos Santana was born in Tijuana.
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Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: June 17 2010 at 15:53
| Most people seem to think either Kansas or Happy the Man. I would say Spock's Beard is a contender as well. I'm not familiar with Yezda Urfa though. |
Posted By: warrplayer
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:19
| Djam Karet! |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:40
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You'll discover my taste in prog : Echolyn Izz Glass Hammer Pentwater Little Atlas Spock's Beard Days for Tomorrow and for the originality and productivity : Frank Zappa ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:46
Wrong. He was born in Jalisco and moved to Tijuana as a kid. |
Posted By: Dreamer of Pictures
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:57
| Happy the Man. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:58
The original Santana band was a product of San Francisco I don't know why Happy The Man didn't come to mind already. The first two albums released back in the '70's were masterful instrumental stuff, there's an excellent live album, and what appears to be their farewell release was rather good. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 16:02
Sounds like...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 16:05
You made the same point already, eh? I obviously haven't been following the thread too closely and haven't scrolled back far enough.  I'm thinking we now have too many nominees for a poll if someone wants to launch one. Did I miss a mention of Phideaux yet? Then there's Oregon, The Residents... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 17:37
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Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 17:38
I dont know how to do a poll...
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 17:51
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agree with Yezda Urfa Boris is amazing. American prog bands weren't that many around in the 70's Kansas were a prog band that appeared in the 70s and were very good but were mostly crossover band. I like dream theater but i don't love them i find a great prog album has several genres coming into it throughout and dream theater albums tend too pick one style and stick too it the whole way through (especially Train of Thought and Awake) I find a whole DT album hard too listen too if im not in the right mood but if i am i can stick on Systematic Chaos or Metropolis Pt.2 and have a really good time. and if we can count the rest of North America lets mention RUSH -------------  
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 18:00
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Another mention for Kayo Dot here. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 18 2010 at 18:15
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motW, fo' sho' -------------
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Posted By: HippieTrippy
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 06:39
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Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 11:12
Ty for the tips, i liked this Probe 10 sound!
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Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 12:20
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From all time...? as a representative in prog history...?
Dream Theater and Kansas with no other contenders... now, what each one likes is different...
Zappa is in the third spot... I guess... ------------- |
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 12:30
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 19:37
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Must be one of 10 !!!! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: Mr. Maestro
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 19:39
<Just look at my avatar. 
But aside from Kansas, you've also got Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, Glass Hammer, Echolyn, Enchant, Rocket Scientists, and Explosions in the Sky, to name a few. ------------- "I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...." |
Posted By: natewait
Date Posted: June 19 2010 at 19:47
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Spock's Beard I also love: Dream Theater, IZZ, Echolyn, Kansas ------------- Please check out my Progressive Music Blog: http://leviathanprog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Leviathan . |
Posted By: johnfripp
Date Posted: June 21 2010 at 12:10
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Dream Theater Zappa kayo dot
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 21 2010 at 12:36
Sure. They are that too, and more. The nine and a half minute long instrumental opener Trip Thru Hell Part I (not on youtube) with many changes, the instrumentation, general weirdness and the whole concept makes them the dark side of Moody Blues or something. But I reccomended to the guy asking for more, because they're an american group, use a trumpet and made one fantastic album. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Morelli
Date Posted: June 21 2010 at 20:06
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 22 2010 at 13:48
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Yes, Sir! Check out his page on ProgArchives, his highly rated albums, especially "Secret Story," "Imaginary Day," "The Way Up," and his new one, "Orchestration," but even "New Chataqua," "As Falls Witchita, So Falls Witchita Falls," "First Circle," and "Beyond the Missouri Sky"--not to mention his numerous amazing live albums--are as all "progressive" as Steve Hackett, Al di Meola, John McLaughlin, or Jean-Lucy Ponty! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |