Charlestown: An Ill-Advised Rant
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73075
Printed Date: August 08 2025 at 10:22
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Charlestown: An Ill-Advised Rant
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Charlestown: An Ill-Advised Rant
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 02:44
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I probably haven't learned my lesson but I am regretting grabbing Guy Manning's Charlestown based on the reception it's getting at PA.
I didn't like Aquarius by Haken much when I first heard it but it grew on me and I ended up giving it 4 stars.
Charlestown on the other head has been looking like a dead cert for two since I first heard it.
Basically it opens with a 35 minute track which just GOES NOWHERE AND NOTHING HAPPENS. These expensive sounding, pleasant musicians just drift around like they're auditioning for a pierside show or something while Manning ocassionally comes in sounding like the offspring of Ian Anderson and a goat. It just meanders about to no effect and I find it absolutely infuriating. I know some people don't take kindly to hate threads like this but in lieu of not being in the mind to give it a proper review for the time being, I thought I should say something to help people think twice before they snap it up because it's probably the weakest album I've ever gotten based on a PA recommendation.
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Replies:
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 02:54
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Why don't you write a review instead ? Your post is pointless on a website which also includes a database (the reviews section) where the users can add their views on the records they purchase. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 03:06
| I'm not in the right headspace to write a proper review. All I know is I'm really not enjoying it and thought the forum was the right place to say it. "I"m really not enjoying it" isn't much of a review. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 05:46
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If this album is anything like the last few by Manning, I agree with Textbook. Thanks for the warning, I'd have been very careful anyway. The way you describe it is exactly the way I feel about the Flower Kings, by the way. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 07:10
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Always good to try before you buy. I have yet to get anything based on a personal recommendation from someone on this site that I didn't like.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 07:16
Shouldn't that be '"who" I didn't like '? 
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Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 07:46
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I think Charlestown isn't singular, there are a lot of masterpiece ratings which I find odd but in my opinion the explanation is that we like different things and we should take the ratings more as a recommendation. Sometimes, when I see a 5* rating, I look how some of the raters have rated other albums that I now, but even this method fails sometimes. In conclusion we shouldn't take these ratings for granted and we should listen to the album before buying it. By the way I think Charlestown is OK(3-4* on the idlero scale) but from OK to 1st place in 2010 top is a long way.And I have the same problem with Lunatic Soul , Ciccada,etc... De gustibus..... |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 08:51
| A few of the reviews for this album were 5 star reviews written by folks who joined pa the same day they reviewed this album. Not sure somebody should be able to write a review the same day they join because it seems it is always chart manipulation. Since newbies cannot start a poll why should reviewing, which is much more impacting be allowed for a first day user of pa?? |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:34
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^ True. I would give one week before they'll be able to write reviews.
------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:42
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I think the comments are very rude and offensive actually and it really pissed me off...I thought this site was bit better than this
I don't really care if you like it or not...I have said repeatedly on this site PLEASE GO TO MY WEBSITE AND CHECK OUT THE SAMPLES BEFORE YOU BUY...if you do not do that..well OOOPS You comment about if "going nowhere" is quite frankly rubbish...thje boat goes from Cornwall to Bristol at the very least! Ian Anderson & goat? piss off
Expensive musicians???. crap ..these guys do it for nothing because the love the music and really believe in it My stuff is NOT to everyones taste and plenty do not like it but I 'm NOT going to sit here quietly being the latest targert in your moronic shooting gallery...OK? You also forget to mention the folk that joined on the day specifically to give it a ONE STAR rating In fact, tell you what, contacgt me offline and send me back the CD and I'll give you your money back, I guess I'll just have to trust (based on your rant) that you won't rip it to MP3 and save it off first
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:47
| You bring up a valid point about the one star ratings, I certainly was not knocking the album at all, I was only talking about first day users being able to review, the album is on the top of the charts here which got to be wonderful for you, I would not worry about a couple of people who might not like it, inevitable. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:50
| It would have been sufficient to say "I don't like this CD" (which is fair enough, not everyone likes everything) rather than resorting to personal insults. There is such a wide range of music here that you can't rely on recommendations alone unless you're already familar with the band. You took a chance, it didn't come off but this is totally uncalled for. |
Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:52
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Yep Sorry just was quite angry really
It is nice to have people like it (or say they do) and some people have given in 2 or 1 stars as well so NO it is not a foregone conclusion of its excellence AND for the record IMO it is NOT a masterpiece (there you can reprint that if you like). Texbook please just go on to the site and give it ONE STAR OK? The rest is just a rant |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 09:58
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Well, the proper place for these comments is in the reviews section, not the forum, and the quip about a goat was utterly misplaced and rude. I've just listened to the sample on Guy's website, and quite enjoyed it, although I must say that I did think Anderson/Tull immediately when I listened to both the vocals and music - not an insult, BTW, as I love Ian Anderson. It's just that the influence seemed clear to me, and, again, as a huge neo fan, that's not a bad thing either. I will be getting the CD I think. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:00
| Absolutely correct, to issue a warning he did not like it on the forum was just plain old negativity |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:01
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It is my view that Charlestown need at least one week to sink in. Call me slow in the uptake, but I really don't think any albums should be reviewed without giving them some days or preferable a week to be digested. In particular Guy's albums which is not instant coffee. And this is not criticism of Guy Manning and his 11 albums. Albums I think will stand the test of time well in the next hundreds years. To open thread like this instead of reviewing the album is ********, hidden behind a feeble excuse. If you don't like an album; say so in a review and in reviews only. End of the matter. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:02
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Text, if an album has high ratings on PA that doesn't mean it's a recommendation for you. A recommendation is a recommendation only if it takes into account your tastes. And PA brings together so many completely different things under the "progressive rock" umbrella that such cases of perfect missed encounters happen uite often. Recommendations are what you get on the forum when you ask people that you know and who know you. Myself I would have never recommended Guy Manning to the guy who made me aware of Glenn Branca and Sufjan Stevens. So I do consider this is more of your fault than Guy's, and I can understand him quite well. This also happened to me last year when I persistedly tried the highest rated albums from the 2009 chart. I ended up with a severe retro-prog intoxication that will probably last a life-time. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:12
Schoolboy error. Slagging of a forum members album. One good thing. It got me interested in hearing it. I will visit your website Guy! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:20
I'll bet he didn't know Guy was a member!
Nice avatar by the way Ian.
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Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:27
^ It doesn't fit him at all. 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:28
Well the way some people talk about musicians on this forum, I've seen some pretty insulting stuff ( as have you I'd say), is pretty horrid. Glad someone got pulled up about it. He can dislike the album without being insulting. And thanks. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 10:42
I usually take mosnths digesting albums. Most times the results are positive and that makes me have a pretty solid opinion about it. -------------   
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 13:38
You've been making music for a decade, you really should have learned by now not to take comments on the internet personally. Despite my implacable rage, I'm also not in favor of this forum becoming anti-recommendations hate threads, but show a little professionalism, Guy... ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 13:50
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Show a little professionalism??..that comes across as really patronising, was it meant to?
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:12
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Guy, I know it's not fun having people publicly dislike your music (especially when being insulting about it like I was with the goat thing) but it does happen and is always going to happen. I don't necessarily apologise for writing it- to say people can't be facetious when writing reviews of music they don't like is wrong- but I am going to take the word "warning" out of the title because it makes it seem like the album is some terrible boogeyman to be avoided when really it's just something I don't like and the situation is largely my fault for the reasons you gave. I didn't try before I bought and I should have known better because a lot of people here have a more "gentle" we might say taste than I and additionally an album always gets high ratings to be begin with because usually it is initially purchased by people who are already fans. I'm a big Jethro Tull fan and I saw people comparing it to JT and giving it five stars and I got over excited. The situation isn't your fault at all- you didn't write those comments about how wonderful it is- and the same thing happened to me with last year's Transatlantic album, The Whirlwind, which I despised but picked up simply due to chatter.
As you can see I was trigger happy there and trigger happy here. My compulsion to own whatever is considered the best album at any given moment (which is a real thing, I do it on RateYourMusic as well) is possibly some sort of neurotic disorder.
I invite you to go to the Just For Fun forum and find the thread which contains some videos of me rapping where you can wet yourself with laughter and feel a lot better once you see what a no-accout loony the guy who started this thread is. Alternatively we could make friends and I could drop a few rap verses on your next album. Hmm.
As my penance for going off half-cocked I have no interest in a return.
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Posted By: Jörgemeister
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:13
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this thread is pretty amusing. A friend of mine insisted in me trying manning's albums and i did tried a few at his place, didnt like it, by far. But it never occurred to me to come to PA and make an anti-recommendation thread and insult the artist. anyway, i dont understand why is it so high rated in PA, but to each its own, i guess. ------------- |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:15
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73075 - Charlestown: An Ill-Advised Rant
I like it! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:15
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Let's hold it there. Guy: PA is the project of many hundreds people who put in hundreds of man-hours into this place every week. Don't be offended by what one or two persons says or write and do not associate those who sweat blood here in ProgArchives with those individuals. Textbook: It is your rights and I downright encourage you to express your opinions about this album with a one - two star review as a part of the freedom of speech you enjoy as long as you put your views as a review and you can string some meaningful words and sentences together to form an opinion. But you did it in a wrong way by raising this thread with the excuse that your head was/is not right. That's an excuse & attitude which does not hold water at all. Neither in PA, in the wider society, in a family or in a workplace. Period. Btw. I would also like to warn people against Charlestown after receiving a tip off some minutes ago at a push-bike touring website. The local shop is selling vastly overpriced cans of Coke and fishy chicken burgers there. Bring your own food and drink when you go http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/restormel/charlestown.htm - there . |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:42
Here here  Let's place this post on the frontpage of the site, because this, to me, is the golden rule by which we should all abide.------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 14:59
I'm just saying that I think you are being very unprofessional by responding with an emotional outburst to some random guy on the internet. If you choose to take personal offense at this statement as well, there's not much more I can say. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:12
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Positive or negative publicity is still publicity. I think it might have gotten the hoi polloi curious. Panem et circenses. Don;t know where the bread is, but congrats to both Textbook and Guy. ------------- Property of Queen Productions... 
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:18
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Well if there's no such thing as bad publicity I suppose I've done Guy a favour. Won't hold my bread waiting for the thank you note ;)
He'll probably send me a complimentary discography on the theory that it will annoy me ;)
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:28
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You know what, I am actually going to check Manning's musicbecause of this thread. -------------
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:30
same, the idea of a 35 minute track that goes nowhere appeals to me |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:32
| He's already made it very clear that the boat goes to Bristol. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:45
Exactly. Otherwise I would not listen to Flower King's http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=2014 - Unfold the Future & http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=10592 - Odyssey on the same day. I guess bad merchandising is merchandising anyway.  Don't be mad Mr. Guy, haters gonna hate. You are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdk1gwWH-Cg - too legit to quit .  -------------
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 15:50
...well that's disappointing  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 16:30
Well don't judge the site by those who attend it. But the fact that you have set up a site where people can try first means that the guy has no excuse. I would not be offering him a refund. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 16:53
| I now fully expect a Charlestown review or two that consists of nothing but "Textbook is an a****le" and a five star rating. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 16:56
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That review and that reviewer will be removed from ProgArchives faster than you can spell Duckwalkonwater. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 16:56
Such reviews would be reported and deleted or asked to be changed. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 17:03
| I was joking. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 17:14
progarchives = serious f**king business. -------------
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 17:17
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------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 17:39
| "Man Begins Uncalled For Thread On Message Forum- Independent Inquiry To Be Launched" |
Posted By: Jörgemeister
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 18:50
------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 19:02
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The local paper ran a brief article today called A Suite Deal In Charleston.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 02:44
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Contacted Guy on PM to apologise, saying that I've now realised that I was angry at myself for leaping lemming like at an album that was #1 on a list and was just venting steam. I don't like the album but it's not as though it justifies an assassination attempt or special warning. I was just hot under the collar.
I think things have been settled amicably enough now (he's a very nice guy) so sorry all.
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Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 02:52
| I think I am going to use the Anderson / Goat quote on my website..so something good came out of it! :0) |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:12
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That would be pretty cool- I remember the author Terry Pratchett used to have a page of laudatory quotes in his books but the last one was from a slam he received in his early days that went "[Pratchett] hasn't a clue... doesn't even write in chapters..."
and I always thought it was hilarious to put a negative quote (though one that made the reviewer in question look like a bit of a dork -why do you have to write in chapters?- giving Pratchett the last laugh) on your own product.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:27
Nice one. Happy ending! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:30
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The way I read a reviews and then order/ignore an album is based on which bands the reviewer compare the album with. If the band are compared to Metallica, that is an ignore/red light warning even when five stars is given. If the album is compared to one of my favorite bands, that is a perhaps or purchase even if it is a low stars review. I also note the name of the reviewer as a point of reference. There is reviewers here who does not share my musical preferences. Although those are some of the most friendliest and greatest persons in PA and the rest of the world; a five star from them serves as a red light warning against the album to me. Textbook: We all learn by our mistakes. I have a big box full of mistakes (CDs and LPs). I applaud you for sending a PM to Guy. Well done. |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:34
Surprising ending, but it's win-win, so we're all happy ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:51
| Yeah I'm not going to name them but there are two prolific reviewers here that I've already learnt to ignore so maybe with time I'll get better at picking my battles. It's easy to forget the human face behind the music sometimes. Sometimes bands seem like distant far away beings from another dimension who would never notice what you do. You don't expect them to come into your orbit or for you to affect them. The reality is of course that there could very well be a sad musician sitting at his computer with tears running down his face as he reads your vicious all-out slam of his baby. (Not that that's what happened with Guy and I, I'm just illustrating a point.) |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 03:56
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^ I suppose that I'm one of these prolific reviewers, but I understand your point, because I "have" such reviewers as well. Those whose tastes usually doesn't fit with mine. On the other hand, I was surprised by several positive feedback from people who seem to "follow" trail of my reviews and generally like them. It was a little bit weird, really, but after all it's a good thing. I know that there are people who dislike my reviews, even they don't say it loud. I understand it :-) ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 04:00
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I didn't say anything about you Marty I don't know why you've decided I mean you.
Except you're right, it is you.
No, only joking.
No actually it is you.
Haha, got you, I'm joking.
Except I'm not, you're one of them.
No not really, gotcha again!
And so on.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 04:20
 ------------- 
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 05:23
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hehe ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 06:26
That'll be interesting Guy. You should sell a few CDs to goat-loving Tull fans if nothing else.
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 06:34
Guy, your next album should be called "A Goat Named Jethro" or "The Flute-horned Ibex". It's a joke, I haven't heard your stuff yet.
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Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 11:15
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>> think I am going to use the Anderson / Goat quote on my website..
Now done!
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 11:17
I listened to some sample on your site and I did like what I heard. Especially the clip from the new album.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: GuyM
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 11:18
| Nice - thanks very much Snow Dog! |