Kanye West's weird prog obsession
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Topic: Kanye West's weird prog obsession
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Subject: Kanye West's weird prog obsession
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:23
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So I was browsing wikipedia and reading about Ege Bamyasi and the page informed me that Kanye West samples(or rather emulates quite terribly) "Sing Swan Song" on his 2007 album, Graduation. Then, a friend of mine told me that Kanye has also gotten his hands on "21st Century Schizoid Man". Despite my well-nurtured loathing for Kanye, I suppose the good in this is that Billboard Top 40-ers are going to wonder who the hell that Japanese guy is singing in the background of "Drunk and Hot Girls" and maybe find their way over here. It's pretty weird if you ask me. Does anyone know if Kanye is some sort of closet prog fan?
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Replies:
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:31
| He also samples Mike Oldfield/Jon Anderson on his new album |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:34
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Not to jump on the newbie, but http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_topics.asp?SearchID=20101221172909&KW=kanye" rel="nofollow - this has been beaten into the ground already . ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:42
Sampling in hip-hop is obviously not news to anyone(I mean, hearing those Eric B and Rakim jazz samples was pretty nuts!). Yet, something about Kanye West sampling prog is particularly strange to me in that the predomination of the hip-hop community that samples relatively obscure music isn't a legion of Billboard scoring rap-pop gods. Also peculiar to me is this megalomania that seems to drive Kanye's career-just look at how grandiose he's gotten over the past two years! Something makes me think that he might actually listen to this stuff he's sampling. Who knows? And I just realized that there are quite a few postings about this topic, but maybe an interview has occurred since then that may suffice to answer my question? ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Henry Plainview wrote:Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:56
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am I alone in not giving a good old f**k about Kanye West and what he listens to?
"It's not a stab at intellectual elitism, I just live in a bubble. While you're hearing her songs played in elevators and shopping malls everywhere, I'm standing right alongside you listening to Black Sabbath on my iPod, locked in my own world. You see, in my world, the world I've carved out for myself, pop icons and pop icons-to-be don't exist. In my world, their records get quietly released and loudly ignored by everyone - "everyone" being me. In my world, their videos don't get played, their songs don't make it onto the radio and they all quietly f**k off." - Danko Jones |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 17:58
Probably. ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Faces and Traces
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:00
| I'v wondered about this as well...but I can't imagine why he'd be content to make the music he does if he WAS a big prog fan......double sided concept album about obscure Buddhist philosophies next year please Kanye? |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:13
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Some modern nobody tries to compensate for a lack of musicianship by stealing from real artists. Let's all try and act surprised. |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:27
Wow, Walter! I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you! ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:30
Not saying he isn't sh*t, but this is not the same as stealing. He's probably given credits, and it's obvious he's sampling from another song. Also, stop acting like everything was brilliant in the "good ole' days" ("Some modern nobody"). Sampling has been happening since before... what was you arbitrary cut-off date for good music again? 1989? There's always been sh*t artists and there always will be sh*t artists. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile 
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:41
But in Walter's
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:44
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Oh thank god. Went almost a week without a Kanye thread. Was beginning to worry.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:45
| are people seriously still getting angry at Walter? |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 18:57
| I only started using the forum a couple of months ago, I'm sure I'll start ignoring him in a week or so |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:02
| just because he doesn't like new music, doesn't mean he likes all old music. Ask him about Pink Floyd |
Posted By: Tychovski
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:04
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While it's incorrect to think he had no say in the choices, it should be noted that it's his DJ's and production team that are most likely assembling the tracks he raps over. ------------- Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact. |
Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:11
The way he says it makes it seem as though he thinks there is much more bad music currently or something. Honestly though, I just really don't understand why anyone would have an opinion of music like his... But you're right. Just have to ignore him. To be honest, I'm beginning to doubt he even actually hates modern music. I think he might just be a massive troll. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:38
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Other than his "George Bush hates black people" remark and the priceless look on Mike Myers face, I don't care about Kanye. Go West young man.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:44
what about his award ceremony interruption? that's my favorite. ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:53
Doubt it. Check his Last.fm profile.
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Posted By: Tychovski
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 19:56
 ------------- Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 20:00
Who says he can't do both? ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 20:34
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Kanye doesn't have a production team. He assembles the music himself.
Rappers sampling prog music is not even slightly new or novel. It has been going on since the 80s and I direct you to this thread:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72311&KW=spot+the+prog+sample&title=calling-all-nonhiphoppers-spot-the-prog-sample" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72311&KW=spot+the+prog+sample&title=calling-all-nonhiphoppers-spot-the-prog-sample
which is filled with examples of hip-hop that samples prog. It's not even slightly exhaustive. I had many more lined up but the community seemed to lose interest in the game so it died ;)
In terms of producers who go for prog, Madlib is probably the most significant. He samples prog acts a lot and even made an entire disc of mashed up prog samples.
What's unusual about Kanye is not that he samples prog, but that he is so commercially popular and samples prog. However let us note that My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy his most proggy (and probably also best) album, had no big hit singles. Very prog.
It has sold very well as an album though. Very prog. ;)
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 20:34
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The guy samples a few prog songs and that's a weird obsession? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 20:51
Link appreciated. And I think you clarified my point well: "What's unusual about Kanye is not that he samples prog, but that he is so commercially popular and samples prog. " That, folks, is my point. I know sampling prog is nothing new, but when Kanye West does it... I mean, come on, how is that not weird? ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 20:54
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Plenty of artists have samples prog. I don't see what's strange about the. The things people dislike about prog aren't evident in a 4 second rip of a guitar riff. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Synchestra
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 03:40
The guy has a massive ego but his music is actually very good (as much as I absolutely hate to admit it) ------------- 'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 05:01
I think "weird obsession" can be easily cast to to many people on this site 
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 06:32
| When I hear of sampling in regard to rappers, the word that springs to my mind is: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=parasitic&ns0=1&redirs=0" rel="nofollow - parasitic . |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 06:35
No way!  ------------- 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 11:25
Prog artists can sample classical composers, classical composers can sample each other, rock musicians can sample birds chirping, but rappers are parasitic for sampling prog? Makes sense. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 11:46
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Yes, being derivative and being an outright thief are very different. Playing an instrument and using a passage from a classical composer is far different than pressing a button connected to a digital recording device that plays the exact recording of someone else's composition.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:05
Ha-ha. There is! Does anyone not think that? |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:11
What exactly is the difference? One 'theft' occurs with an instrument, the other with a computer. It's just a difference in means. One is right and the other wrong just because people here like prog and dislike rap. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:15
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Same goes with even more genres than mentioned. Throbbing Gristle, This Heat, any other noise/post-punk bands anyone? Are they thieves for using samples electronically? And it's weird, I've noticed a LOT of people around here HATE rap. But I love [good] rap. Anything from Stones Throw Records is good for me. ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:22
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I wonder how many people here have actually heard the album. A rapper uses a 4 second sample of a prog song in one song on an entire album and suddenly he's a parasite thief with no talent. Nice. I do think it's curious that the best songs on his album are the one's with prominet samples though (Blame Game, Power, Lost in the World). Though All of the Lights is still fantastic. It sags a lot in the middle though. Also, I suspect very few prog fans here have put the p***y in a sarcophagus. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:24
| Anyone who hates sampling should also hate the mellotron...an instrument designed to manipulate pre-recorded sounds. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:48
 Just because you don't get the difference does not mean there is not one. A musician playing a classical piece is like a painter painting a portrait of my Christmas and putting the painting in his leaving room. A rapper with a recorded sample in his song is like coming over and taking the tree to put in his living room. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:50
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Yeah I know and what about all the "borrowing" from classical composers that so many prog bands have done? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:53
Since we're getting really close to just declaring sampling lack talent, I'll just dispel that before it becomes an issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endtroducing" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endtroducing ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:02
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I get it. If any of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale are played, its just like sampling and if you think you have not stolen from someone else you are a hypocrite. Awesome. I think I will go "write" Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band. It will be mine because I recorded it on my computer and pressed the play button.It will be exactly the same as if I got an ensemble together and learned the songs and practiced them for hours before we got it sounding ok. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:11
1) I have no idea what you mean by the first paragraph. 2) I think you're trying, first of all, to rant against sampling by comparing it to copying an entire song, not altering it, and just releasing it under a different name. Uh...tell me where that happens. Most sampling is a melodic hook used in an entirely different genre and context, more often than not combined with an original melody or song by the sampler (re: Kanye). Or the whole song could be composed of samples, but not just one sample. A dozen or so. (re: Endtroducing.....). It takes a lot of skill to do something like that and have it sound fresh and cool. secondly, you seem to have an idea that electronic music is simply inferior to acoustic music. Weird. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Symphonic_Library" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Symphonic_Library When you have this and a good notation program, humans are all but obsolete. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:37
Just because you think there's a difference doesn't make it so. Your analogy makes no sense at all. You can call it an analogy, but it's not even close to being the same. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:39
Nope, but you've done just as much 'stealing' in each case. Maybe you should go listen to a song in question. If you call DJ Shadow or Girl Talk theft, you'll still be wrong, but at least you'll have an idea of what's going on. EDIT: It's still composition. Only instead of using notes as your building blocks, you use samples of others songs. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 15:23
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Someone go listen to Edan's Echo Party and then tell me sampling is not an art form. Let's also not forget Since I Left You.
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 16:03
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I will never get that sampling thing. What's the point of sampling? Play your damn thing on a instrument. Or if you can't play an instrument, push a few buttons, do a few mouse clicks, program a synth, drum-machine, sequencer, computer. Be creative. I'm fine when people use digital sampling keyboard when they can not afford grand piano, but sampling pieces of another song? Loop and patterns? No thanks. Fine with sampling non-musical sounds: ambient noises, famous speech, movie lines. But when a musician is sampling another musician it's like a half-stealing. I guess you can get creative in that process too, but I just don't like it. Besides, most of the samples sound as a half-baked attempt to make cash on a already known/already written hook. Just one of the reason I never like sample-based musical styles. *rant mode off ------------- |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 16:21
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I don't care if anyone likes it. But if you're not going to call it an art form I have a problem. Of course most of it is trash. So is most prog, most rock, etc. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 20:41
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 20:48
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How about everyone stop debating whether or not sampling is stealing and disseminate the issue a little bit? It depends on HOW you sample. That has been asserted many times here. Some people completely emulate the melody of a song and some people(like many RAP artists use the sample to piece it into a different melody, rhythm et al). Can anyone really say sampling is cheap? Think about it abstractly-isn't music really piecing together abstract SOUNDS and making a composition? Is that not what art achieves? I'm not being histrionic in making this analogy: saying that sampling is cheap is like saying that oil paint is a sh*tty medium and that because it looks so elegant and expressive, that it's "cheating". There are so many profound musicians that utilize sampling-not just other songs but sounds. Some of you forget that sampling doesn't only entail sampling a SONG. Olde English 800 laden rant over.
------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 01:14
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After all this discussion I'd really like to know whether any of these Rap erm.... artists? ever pay any royalties for the stuff they erm.... lifted? I think that would make quite a difference. There's a whole world of difference between nicking stuff and paying tribute. Or doesn't that apply in Rap-Land? |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 02:46
Of course it's music and therefore art. Music, for me, is every organized set of sounds for artistic purposes. But with sample-based music, I feel cheated. It won't fulfill my artistic needs. It's like readymade objects of Marcel Duchamp. ------------- |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 04:31
| NPJ: No, you don't have to pay for sampling. In fact, if you sample someone's song, they have to pay you. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 23:42
Shenanigans. I call shenanigans on Textbook. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: February 06 2011 at 22:36
| I just listened to his new album today, and it's actually surprisingly good. I really enjoyed it and respect him for sampling prog. Blind haters should stop arguing that he somehow is disrespecting KC by sampling them. Listen to the album with an open mind first! |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: February 07 2011 at 01:50
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Outkast samples Focus
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