King Crimson and Classical Music
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7464
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Topic: King Crimson and Classical Music
Posted By: steelyhead
Subject: King Crimson and Classical Music
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:01
| I have notice between the circle of friends I have that not all of them like KC, only the ones who likes classical music of the 20th century. I love both types of music. Do we have a pattern here? What do you think? |
Replies:
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:05
| Consider yourslef lucky, because I don't know anyone who likes KC or classical music for that matter. |
Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:06
|
Classical music of the 20th century??
------------- ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati |
Posted By: steelyhead
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:08
|
Hierophant: I can´t help myself I love all their first records up to Red. and Heir to Ruin Have you ever heard of Mahler or Addams or maybe Rodriguez from México. You should try them some time. |
Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:17
I've just always thought of classical music as a time period prior to the 20th century. ------------- ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati |
steelyhead wrote:Posted By: steelyhead
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:22
|
Heir to Ruin: Think of it as a line of a certain type of music, for
example the barroque period was like our 60´s type of music, the
elements where there but needed a big oomph! so the next period was the
classical period like our 70´s music when everything was in place and
the music were the most beautiful ever written. Then the romantic and
then the post romantic right in the 20th century. So I am in love with
the music written the last century in this type of music. |
Posted By: bamba
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:42
|
well thats great. i can find in yes music or genesis a very stronge influense of classic music. i love baroque music from bach to handel. and i think king crimson also have something of classic influenses. conservatory music. ------------- Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 01:38
|
Fripp studied from one of the classic books on 20th century harmony (forgot which one it is). You can sometimes hear these influences in his music, he stole Gustav Holst's planets on "The Devil's Triangle" and I think Debussy (?) on Thrak? Also, you find what could be categorized as musique concrete on the Three of a Perfect pair and others. ------------- 
Album of the week: Being 7/30/05 Remedy Lane 7/24/05 Pawn Hearts |
Posted By: Eemu Ranta
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 04:11
|
The Moonchild jam is definitely Stockhausen-inspired. I'm sure that KC
and many other prog bands are also heavily influenced by Schönberg's ground-breaking atonal work. ------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable - George Bernhard Shaw |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 04:52
|
I do like both, although I see a stronger link between ELP and 20th century schizoid... excuse me Bartok, Janacek, Ginastera, Copland, that's what I liked about ELP. About KC: I never noticed. It's interesting to hear other people speak about the relationshap between KC and Stockhausen and other composers. Keep talking, everybody. This is all very interesting! |
... classical music.Posted By: firth_of_Fifth
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 06:43
|
He didn't really steal Devil's Triangle, did he? It is mars, but different slightly...
------------- http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 08:13
Ginastera...AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Never heard something more disturbing than his Toccata...or maybe it's Emerson's interpretation??? (mmm...read about Ginastera praising Emerson for the right mood in which he set his composition...) ------------- A flower? 
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 08:49
Well, I love Emerson's interpretation. |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 08:55
| Well, I am very fond of 20th century classical music, but KC as well as other Fripp works leave me rather indifferent. |
Posted By: DavidInsabella
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 10:04
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I'm not really in to 20th Century Classical music, I'm more partial to 21st Century Schizoid Man. Haha, a bit of bad humor by David. But yes, I like both styles. ------------- Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be. 
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Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 11:37
I believe this kind of music (along with The Three Fates and the like) is too "out there" for me... ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 11:43
| Yes, I think you're right here, there is a pattern between lovers of "modern music" and stuff like KC, in many ways they are conected, as is the case of for example "Tales from Topografic oceans" and early Gentle Giant. It takes a lot to dig music for both mind, heart, brain and soul, but it's well worth the investment, IMO. |
Posted By: Moribund
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 11:46
|
I wouldnt agree Moonchild jam owes anything to Stockhausen - his pieces are concptually tight and often very rigorously planned and formulated, even if often including improvisational or aleatoric elements. (Big plug for Stockhausen here - g check out!) Moonchild owes far more to free-form jazz or psychadelic freak-outs. To my ear, all prog owes a great deal to classical music: more often from earler centuries, especially the music of Bach or Mozart. I would say Bartok is the clearest influence on Crimson' work (conscious or not) with its use of the tritone and it's heavy reliance on rhythm as a driving force. Bartok (and to a lesser degree) owe a lot to rock's rhythmic development in a similar way that Debussy & Ravel influenced the harmonic development of jazz ------------- New Progressive Rock Live show now touring UK theatres! www.masterpiecestheconcert.co.uk |
Posted By: DracoMordag
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 13:18
Good to see people recognising the similarities. 
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 13:34
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Maybe you have a point there. I love King crimson. I love Bach and do'nt realy care much about later classics until the end of the 19th century. Then some composers (mostly stravinsky that I feel is one of the most influencing composers on the whole prog genre) excite me to tears. Actually in Kundera's book "betrayed inheritances" there's a very interesting explanation of why one can love barock and modern music and dislike the so called "classic" music in much better way than I can do. ------------- omri |
Posted By: Winterfamily
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 13:57
|
And what about Steve Reich? Fripp's guitar sequences in the "Lark's Tongues..." and "Starless..." albums sound a lot like Reich's work in pieces like "Six Marimbas" or "Sextet". The only difference between them is that Robert F. used guitars and Reich wrote his work to be performed using mallets, but their use of repetitive patterns and second harmonies is almost the same. Moribund: nice association. I love Bartok and KC, too. |
Posted By: Moribund
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 14:39
|
Yes certainly. And the similarity is even closer if you check out Fracture, then The League of Gentlemen and especially Discipline. ------------- New Progressive Rock Live show now touring UK theatres! www.masterpiecestheconcert.co.uk |
Posted By: haas
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 16:36
|
I like classical music of the twentieth century, but i don't really like king crimson. It think it's to hard, and to loud sometimes. But i think i have to get used to it, because it's very intelligent music, just like classical music. ------------- "the attraction of the virtuoso for the public is very like that of the circus for the crowd. there is always the hope that something dangerous may happen" - Claude Debussy |
Posted By: nousommedusolei
Date Posted: June 17 2005 at 00:42
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Of course there's a connection. I'm guessing you've heard "Prelude: The Song of the Gulls"? As a classical musician myself, I greatly appreciate both forms of music. ------------- I don't believe in demons I don't believe in devils I only believe in you |