Kanye West- Album Of The Year
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Topic: Kanye West- Album Of The Year
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Kanye West- Album Of The Year
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 18:52
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Kanye's new LP, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy has been ranked as the best of the year by Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, Slant, Billboard, Time, Spin, Metacritic, The AV Club and The Washington Post. (The Guardian gave it #2.) It's in the top ten of many other publications and it's also #1 on Rateyourmusic, the biggest aggregator of public opinion of music. And just to be clear, these are *all-genre* lists, not best rap album lists.
I don't think I've ever seen a wider consensus on the album of the year. Particularly striking is that the album only came out in November, usually when other albums have had more time to settle in and lock it down.
Now I know that PA has a lot of grumpy old dinosaurs on it who will rubbish this without having heard it because it's rap music, and will be bitter as history moves on and leaves their limited aesthetic range behind, but if they gave it a chance, they might be pleased to see that it is progressive rap music. (Progressive relative to what is normal for rap music at least.)
Anyway, whether you like West or not, this huge consensus is unusual so he's done something right to get both the public and the critics in such agreement.
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Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 18:54
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I must admit you are correct. I don't really care. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 18:56
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Sorry, but I just got the album. Will be gicing impressions in a while. I mean, it HAS to have something... ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:05
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It's pretty good, but sags a lot in the middle. Monster, especially is a bit dumb and long. Devil in a New Dress and So Appalled, too, are kinda meh. I gave it a 3.5/5.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:13
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If I get a chance I'll give it a go. My curiosity is piqued. Spotify maybe?
Hey is that a bit of Jon Anderson at the beginning? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:18
| Gorgeous and Runaway stunned me. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:19
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Pity he is such a dick. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:22
It doesn't matter, http://www.theonion.com/articles/fully-validated-kanye-west-retires-to-quiet-farm-i,18724/" rel="nofollow - I think we won't be hearing from him again anytime soon . I started to watch the really long video, but it was too long. I don't care enough to investigate further. I would dispute, however, that the consensus is unprecedented. Perhaps not as much, but Merriweather Post Pavilion was similarly hyped, not to mention Kid A. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:23
| Nah. The album of the year was Hendrix's "West Coast Seattle Boy." That one features (gasp) actual musicianship! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:26
Good news if it turns out to be true. I'm on the second track Gorgeous but this is definitely not my thing. Bit bored now. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:27
High Five! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:35
It's not, The Onion is a satire site... Also, I suspect a big reason Kanye has a higher rating than Animal Collective on RYM is because he doesn't have all the hipster haters one starring him. Hipsters tend to be more deferential, so they can appear more open-minded and thus superior, so they don't one star something just because of the genre. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:37
Sorry..I didn't notice your link was The Onion.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:37
| HP: Kid A's status is retroactive. At the time, a lot of people hated it. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:46
I was under the impression it was critically acclaimed at the time as well, it just took time for it to get through to the non-hipsters, but I wasn't paying attention at the time so I am probably wrong. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 19:49
I seem to remember very positive reviews. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 20:03
Isn't that review from The Guardian which gave it a 0 back in 2000 one of the most famous negative reviews of recent times? Let me look for it. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 20:05
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I have to listen to it some more, but I think The College Dropout is much better. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 20:14
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Here's the Kid A review I was talking about: http://www.followmearound.com/presscuttings.php?year=2000&cutting=85" rel="nofollow - http://www.followmearound.com/presscuttings.php?year=2000&cutting=85 And here's the same author writing about it after 10 years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2010/oct/11/radiohead-kid-a-10-years" rel="nofollow - http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2010/oct/11/radiohead-kid-a-10-years |
Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 21:17
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Is there something such as ''progressive rap'' ? - never heard of it, i doubt rap can be progressive in any sense, but you puzzled me with this Kanye West album, i don't think i will like it, but i will give it a spin sometimes ------------- www.last.fm/user/angelmk 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 21:29
By the way, I hate, loathe Animal Collective. -------------
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Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 21:59
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 19:48
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What is hard to understand is the fact that this disposable piece of garbage is on so many best of 2010 lists. Let's get serious, the album is nothing but a bunch of samplings and some of the most disgusting lyrics ever put on record. The media perhaps is just following the company line. And by the way, Kid A is a terrible album also. Perhaps the media will turn Kanye into the next Radiohead... |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 22:03
I always knew we'd fall in love one day Teo. Yeah I wish wide tastes were a little more prevalent here too. I don't loathe them, but I loathe their following. I don't understand what makes them better than a band with some pretty good songs. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 22:05
Solid first post man. I'm gonna blow your mind, samplings are used pretty extensively in many genres. And they're pretty awesome too. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 22:20
No, the newbie is absolutely right. Sampling is a daft and a frequent exercise in pure plagiarism. Intelligent, legal and creative re-contextualization is an impossible today. You have you go back to the eighties to see instances of quality work based off samples. Two words: Paul's Boutique. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 22:20
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*grumble grumble* "The Kaney Wests make the no-talent hip hop with the samples and the bad words. This trash doesn't deser-- hey you damn kids, get off my lawn!" *grumble grumble* ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 06:27
Actually the sampling is the least objectionable thing he does. I thought that the fact that he can't sing even with auto tune, can't write and can't play any instrument were implied. But then again, talent nowadays is very relative, it's Lady Gaga time. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but the idea of people going to a Kanye West concert with the intention of listening to music is very disturbing.  |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 07:17
That's probably because they're not. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 07:23
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All those publications thinking it's great, doesn't automatically mean it is. It could mean the opposite.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 07:53
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Call me old fashioned, but I can't imagine people going to a jazz concert and expecting to listen to music. This damn Negro music is destroying American values.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 11:19
Sampling is as old as music, though it was less obvious and done more, "musically". I see how in music like Kanye's, sampling may seem like simple plagiarism. I don't think so. He sometimes makes good use and comes out with something new with his sampling. There might be a few cases of lazy-almost-plagiarism sampling there but I see a lot of examples of the other. -------------
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Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 11:27
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Of course you can sample, but to base your entire body of work on sampling melodies created by others isn't necessarily the best way to build up a career... But anyway, I think that to appreciate what Kanye does you must first trow away any conception of what really good music is. Kanye is a great collage maker, I'll give you guys that, but he is not a musician. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 11:35
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Maybe he's not a great composer/songwriter/instrumentalist, but he does what he does and does it well. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:06
Isn't music just an arrangement of sounds? Kanye arranges sounds that come from songs rather than sounds that come from an isolated instrument. I see no difference. I suppose what John Cage did wasn't music either? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:13
^Well, jury's still out on 4'33"  Of course everything with organized sound is music. Damn, even un-organized sound can be music. It's all in the purpose. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:15
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I guess I should have said intentional or unintentional arrangement of sound. Clearly intent is not needed.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:19
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The intent of the non-organization maybe (like in true random music) but intent is necessary.. I wouldn't say "look that man is hitting the hammer and making noise.. he's making music". But if said man says "I'm hitting the hammer and making music", I'd believe him. Might be simplistic and give us atrocious music, but the definitions of music have changed so radically through the years that now we don't even know what to define it anymore. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:26
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"Music" is a bullsh*t term. There is only sound. Some sounds are more popular than others, and some people (probably those damn Sumerians) decided to call it music and make a big deal out of it. Oh well. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:26
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Damn radical. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:31
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Yeah...humans have this thing where just because they did it, it's special. People sample and release rainforests on mp3 or CD because they're generally beautiful to most people. Why not call it music? Oh, because an advanced ape didn't happen to make the sounds. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:32
I don't think intent is necessary. Like Stoney said, I don't differentiate it from sound. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:33
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Arbitrary b*****ds.
You both have a point. Though it might lead to deleting the "music" entry off the dictionary, since it basically becomes useless. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:36
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Like many areas of study, as you progress further and further you find that distinctions are very arbitrary and only reflect an outdated disproved period of thought. I think music and sound are at that point.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:41
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I think many definitions and rules are quite arbitrary, remnants of a bygone era when an elite said and did what they wanted and set out all of these things. The more people have access to do all kinds of sh*t, the more the real meaning behind things appear, and usually that meaning is "whatever fits the individual" -------------
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Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:45
May I also be so bold as to suggest, I havent heard it either but I will also put my hands up to rubbish it because it is Rap...a music form that has zero merit in all its forms A personal opinion of course and no amount horses could drag me to him or his sort
------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump...... |
Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:46
| As long as is pleasant to the ear of the listener is music. I'm not trying to impose subjective views upon anyone, anyone uses their time as they please. Another completely different thing is to put Mr. Kanye West in the same level as serious musicians working hard to produce art. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:49
Many works by Dutilleaux, Penderecki, Stockhausen, Varese, etc, etc, etc, are quite not pleasant to the ear... But you wouldn't deny them the "music" status would you? -------------
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:50
this album (also from 2010) is also a progressive rap album http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Lucious_Left_Foot:_The_Son_of_Chico_Dusty" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Lucious_Left_Foot:_The_Son_of_Chico_Dusty
 -------------  
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:52
I'm not sure if you're aware what he does. His songs often use samples, but they're not only sampled. His job is equally to tie together 10 or more samples into a coherent whole, and add some of his own melodies, beats and composition to make it more cohesive. Then rap on top of it. The organizational and production approach is no easy task. Having a rigid definition of art like you apparently do can get you into trouble.
Also, as always, checking out DJ Shadow's album Endtroducing........ should be required before discussing sampling. It should be a rule somewhere. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:56
Lol you just tell us you're not trying to push your judgments on us --- AS LONG as we accept your judgment that Kanye West is inherently inferior to other musicians, who you say work much harder than him, based on absolutely no information. Oh that's great. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:57
You should listen anyway because it's a great album. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:00
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I'm sure Jon Anderson of mighty Yes does much less than West... He just sits around, comes up with extremely idiotic lyrics, and "sings"... Yet the rigid vision of Mr. Overmatik (overly-problematic?) is "Prog = good, rap = bad, water = good, fire = bad. Quite neandertalish... -------------
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Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:01
Again, in my opinion, which I thought was implied, Kanye West is worthless. If you can see value in his music it is ok, don't worry. Geez, this is a forum right? Everything here are personal opinions. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 13:07
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Your sentence pretty clearly indicates a shift from a subjective statement to one which me should all agree with, but whatever brosive.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Baby Snakes
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 04:50
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Although music has its subjective tendencies does not mean it should not be held up to a standard, in my humble opinion. Subjective as it may be, if we were to throw out such notions then why don't we just have five year olds banging on xylophones make the top of all the charts? That's not to say that's what I think Kanye West does. I don't think he's near the bottom of the list when it comes to rappers. I'd put it at average from what rap I do enjoy, but my point is if subjectivity alone dictates the musical standard, what is the point of elevating anything as better than anything else? Why not just listen to the house creak if it's not any better musically? As for sampling, like all things done well, it's about execution. Some people can do amazing things with samples brought from other peoples' music. They still have to control melodies, harmonies, timings, and syncopations to make a worthwhile song out of it.
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Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 05:37
In the end all this has to do with relativism. I don't believe in it, and I feel free to judge what I think has value from what have not. But in no way will I try to force into people my own personal tastes. That is why I'm an atheist, after all. ------------- "Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman." |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 06:47
Because people don't like 5 year old orchestras. What's your point? Somebody did record an album of free improvising children (The Tangerine Awkestra, I am 90% certain everything surrounding it is a joke) and it takes a very special kind of person to enjoy that. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 07:50
Well I never!  he did play pretty much every instrument on his first solo album, you know The new album is good, probably 3/5 or 4/5 from me if I had to choose. I still prefer 808s & Heartbreak. ------------- 
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Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 08:04
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Actually what I would like to know is: Regardless of wheter you like Kanye or not, do you guys consider this album to be even among the top 10 releases of 2010? I do not.
------------- "Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman." |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 08:07
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Though I don't claim to know the subtleties of hip-hop, I've listened to a little bit, and wondering what it is about this particular album that makes it special? The Kanye I found on youtube was catchy but typical. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 09:33
Yeah, a lot of nothing in that post. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 09:34
No. I consider Katy Perry's Teenage Dream to be among the top 10 of the year. Kanye has been close to my top 10 before, but just not with this particular album. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 11:09
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Never mind that. Album of the millenium. Such a talented man.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: overmatik
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 17:34
Yep, we really are in the opposite sides of the spectrum. Here is the best album of 2010 in my humble, subjective and personal opinion: http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/wyatt__atzmon_and_stephen/for_the_ghosts_within/" rel="nofollow">  For the Ghosts Within - Wyatt, Atzmon & Stephen
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 21:27
Nope not really. I just like more styles than you do. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 21:30
No. I really love "All of the Lights" and "Lost in the World," but a lot of the stuff in the middle is just...meh. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: (De)progressive
Date Posted: February 13 2011 at 10:57
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Well I must admit that Kanye West is generally OK, (at least compared to other rappers/hip-hopers well known in public as in the MTV. His music is a bit different by my standards, and his new albums seems nice, (I watched Runaway video clip, at least the clip was great, very aestetique.) ------------- ''Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.'' (Friedrich Nietzsche) 
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