Figuring very complex/difficult timing

I'd like to offer some famous no-talent bands a million dollars to master one of these songs within a week. >>>

I'd like to give them a million to master it period.  Then again, I'd give them a million if they knew what you were talking about. LOL

Moatilliatta wrote: Bobby wrote: Entity79 wrote: Listen to Lateralus by Tool. Verses are in 5/8, then the measure just before each chorus is 6/8, and during the chorus, the progression is 9/8, 8/8, 7/8, repeats twice before going back to the verse.   One thing that intriges me so much about Tool is the complexity in the music.  Meshuggah too, they have some of the most insanely complex measuring around. Yea, Meshuggah's polyrhythms are nuts. The music itself isn't as intriguing as Tool's, but the time signatures they use in their polyrhythms are a little more bizarre. As an example, in "New Millenium Cyanide Christ," the drummer plays a 4/4 beat with his hands, and with his feet (which is what the guitars and bass syncronize with), he plays 5 measures of 23/16 followed by one measure of 13/16. That totals 128 16th notes, which is congruent to 8 measures of 4/4.

The problem with bands of this ilk, especially Meshuggah, is that the music all ends up sounding incredibly samey - because there is little or no focus on the other 4 equally important elements of music - and the only focus you are left with is on the rhythms.

Rhythmic music is fine, and complicated rhythms are interesting - but as pieces of music, they just don't work for me - I don't find anything compelling enough in there to make me want to listen to it again. I also find that the whole synchronised nature gets very wearying - it's great for a couple of pieces - but again, this tends to make the music sound samey (to my jaded ears, at least).

And, as you point out, it almost all adds up to 4/4 in the end

What fascination do all these rhythmically complex pieces hold?

I'm curious

Entity79 wrote: Listen to Lateralus by Tool. Verses are in 5/8, then the measure just before each chorus is 6/8, and during the chorus, the progression is 9/8, 8/8, 7/8, repeats twice before going back to the verse.

One thing that intriges me so much about Tool is the complexity in the music.  Meshuggah too, they have some of the most insanely complex measuring around.

Excellent. It's nice to be "around" other people who like this kind of thing. No one around me in person is into it.

Here's another one: War by Henry Cow. I think it's 14 beats and sometimes it seems to be 15. I don't know the right way to describe time signatures but i basically listen to how many beats (as small as they have to be) until it kind of repeats (which can't be done with some music).

Anyone out there who can describe the time signatures in War by Henry Cow? I'd like to see the sheet music for some of these songs actually. Part of the allure for me is "illusiions" in the music which throw you off and make you reset your internal counting. This can be done with quite simple timing but a shift in emphasis or instruments. One example is about one minute into Experience on In a Glass House by Gentle Giant, at the point where it really starts to get going.

It's absolutely amazing to me how few people advance their taste in music. Most people advance in all their other interests but music seems to be the equivalent to a massage for most people, nothing more. It's great to have found a place where people aren't like that.

I'm only a newcomer to the prog genre, but it seems to me like all these complex time signatures are just a vehicle for the band to showcase "their musical superiority" over other genres of music, punk for example.... the best record i have encountered which shamelessly flaunts musical talent has to be "Seven Is A Jolly Good Time" by Egg. Another good one is "The Song Of McGuillacudie The Pusillanimous" in 5/8. But here I am talking like I know the genre...!

Mike