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Was Pete Sinfield essential for King Crimson? |
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7536 |
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Welcome to PA, and thanks, that is a great observation!
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7536 |
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I think Peter's lyrics were essential to "launching" King Crimson as a mystical musical force! "The rusted chains of prison moons are shattered by the sun...." was the starting signal for modern prog.
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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GUD77 ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: January 19 2024 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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He was definitely an amazing poet and had some really memorable lyrics. I dont remember all the songs he wrote at the top of my head but the work he put into KC and ELP combined is just sublime. Probably something like a 5th Beatle type situation and he should be remember for it
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Big Sky ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2022 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1101 |
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Agreed. I have known of Pete Sinfield for about as long as I have been listening to Prog Rock (45+ years). The only essential to King Crimson is Robert Fripp. That has been seen through the various iterations of King Crimson through the years. The constant has been Fripp. |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30329 |
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Ensemble album pure and simple. Take out any of them and it falls apart.
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Heart of the Matter ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3661 |
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I don't know if this should answer the question, but I just can't imagine ITCOTCK without that "The rusted chains of the prison moons are shattered by the Sun" kick start. After close your eyes in this world, you open them in Crimson world. If that's not essential, what is essential then?
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30329 |
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Closer To Believing is my favourite GL song off that side of Works Volume One. I love the romantic imagery and use of choir. C'est La Vie was one the one that got trotted out most possibly so Emerson could play the Honher Accordian but ELP did play CTB on the massive Works tour when they still had the orchestra (eventually dropped for financial reasons).
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JD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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omphaloskepsis ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6906 |
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I'm a lyrics girl. One of my top ten, all-time lyrics songs is Sinfield/Lake/ELP's "Hallowed Be Thy Name" off of Works Vol. I.
1. The way Sinfield employs the Lord's prayer is genius and ironic. 2. The song sounds like the most ominous, darkest Disney, evil cartoon musical number ever. That's not bad...it's good. Very visual. It's as if the Devil (the madman) is making a deal with the son and tempting him. The devil/madman takes the son to different locations, tempting the son with his kingdom. 3. The inclusion of optimist and pessimist characters energizes the song and adds a tad of comedy. I see the optimist/pessimist as the devil's right and left-hand henchmen, bumbling over each other to please their master. 4. The 11 consecutive rhymes at the end of the song put a huge exclamation point on "My favorite all-time ELP song". Am I the only one who adores this song like a family heirloom treasure? 5. The use of words within words is unrivaled. It's varied too. Sometimes, literally, and other times, Sinfield uses homophones. The wordplay reminds me of Shakespeare. Remember Hamlet's aside? "a little more than kin, and less than kind" Sinfield's word-within-wordplay: There may be an om in moment But there's very few folk in focus or I give you the state of statesmen Still I don't see a man in a mansion We live in an age of cages The tale of an ape escaping You needn't be well to be wealthy But you've got to be whole to be holy Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 01 2024 at 15:20 |
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Cosmiclawnmower ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 4019 |
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For all the great work he did with KC and the 'Still' lp which i am very fond of in a clunky sorta way, he is still responsible for this:
and i know everyone's got to make a living, but come on..
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Steve Wyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 30 2017 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3025 |
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Pete is still with us: he just turned 80 last December. A quadruple-bypass survivor, he is now living in Suffolk.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18686 |
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Hi, I think it was a bad match. It was like saying that what PFM had was worthless and it had a lot to offer, and was fun to listen to, and it also had a bit of a laugh in it, which PS lacked in my book. I think PS mostly worked at translating things, but in the end, they did not come off very well, and in listening to the PFM folks do it, it seems like they are having issues doing it, and getting their feeling and characterizations through. The other well known person translating some Italian folks was Peter Hammill that did at least "Felona e Serona", if I remember correctly. I don't know if this "fits" or not in this discussion, but going back to the Moody Blues, there appears to be an attempt at POETRY, rather than just lyrics, and I have a feeling that it may have been what got the "Art Rock" thing started, though one could think of The Nice doing classical music as the same thing. The use of Pete Sinfield, and then later others (the poetess with Renaissance), and helped later get more appreciation for the likes of Roy Harper, the true poet since then and then some! I think that by the time that the music went totally commercial (Led Zeppelin) that the whole thing was no longer important, and folks did their own thing. But some of the European material that ended up being known as "progressive" had a lot of very literary work. ANGE was not only poetic, it was also theatrical. Very much "Art Rock". |
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Moyan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 29 2024 Location: Suffex Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20645 |
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Svettie, I agree that when Frippy and Sinfield parted, Crimson's artistic airy-fairy license went with the latter and is indeed somewhat present in Still (brilliant cast, though), but it lacks the former's crunchy musical input. Too bad he mostly failed communicating his style to ELP and didn't succeed with PFM's English-sung albums. Thankfully, you don't think he would've changed Boris The Spider from proto-metal anthem into airy-fairy folk, by contributing to it.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Moyan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 29 2024 Location: Suffex Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21817 |
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Never heard of him. But your assumption is invalid. Nobody knows how KC would have developed without him, it's completely possible that they would have found their way towards "surreal concepts" anyway.
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Moyan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 29 2024 Location: Suffex Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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While "Larks' Tongues in Aspic," released in the same year, is today regarded as the ultimate progressive masterpiece, I must say that, personally, I more like the vibe on "Still," which is more akin to the timeless "Lizard," my dream King Crimson album, than the aforementioned KC's fifth studio album, which, despite the demonstrated technical skill that certainly was mind-blowing for 1973, nowadays sounds dated to me.
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 13065 |
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I agree with everything, but I felt like quoting this last part
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20645 |
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This!! and the only member that stayed through 5 albums Apart from bringing the visual parts of Crimson (the artworks, the vocal imagery and lights on stage) he also toyed with sonics both in studio and on stage (VCS3 from the sidelines) methinks that what irritated Frippy most was that Sinfield collected as much royalties "just for the lyrics" as he did for Lizard & Island. That's why he sacked Pete, and he angered Boz, Ian & Mel in doing so.
I certainly enjoyed much more Sinfield's texts than RPJ's or Ade Belew's. Sinfield wasn't far from beat poetry as was Procol's Keith Reid or Pete Brown (Cream, JB, Battered Ornament & Piblokto). Actually, I believe the latter was openly recognized as a beat poet.
Edited by Sean Trane - March 01 2024 at 02:46 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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omphaloskepsis ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6906 |
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I did not know that. I learned something new.
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