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Arrrghus 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5296 |
 Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:53 |
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Is there an "it depends" option? Neal Morse does some pretty cool stuff, I thoroughly enjoyed ? and I will buy his next album.
However, some Christian stuff is stupid. Proto-kaw gets a bit annoying. I like it when the Christianity creates a new drive. It should be noted that I'm an Agnostic, and not a Christian, though I'm forced to endure Catholic church every Sunday. I do like some Christian music, partly because my dad, who is Protestant and not Catholic, is very into religion. Actually, he's only one test away from his masters in theology. His love of Christian music (very sophisticated praise and worship and also some gospel, and by gospel I mean the kind that influenced soul music) |
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fullbug13
Forum Newbie 
Joined: February 06 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:47 |
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I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
You labeled me a fanatic in a sense, and that's fine with me. I am NOT a Catholic, but I am a PROTESTANT. In case you don't know the history, it was through Martin Luther that we Protestants broke away from Catholisism because the Catholic teachings were so ascewed and twisted. Martin Luther saw what was happening in the Catholic church, saw the wrong doing and was the reason that the Germans ended up having Bibles of their own language to read (which then spread into Britian and in english text). . . which the Catholic church in Rome was forbidding. History Dude, read it, study it, and then do what few Catholics do . . . . study GOD'S WORD THE BIBLE!!! You can say that believing in any god of your choice will get you to heaven, you can say that being a good person will get you to heaven, you can say that works will get you into heaven, but if you believe anything about the Bible and Jesus Christ, you better get with the program of what the Bible says, not some Pope surrounded by gold that was coherced from poor peasants who thought it would get their loved ones out of pergatory faster . . . . which of course the Catholic Hierachy in Rome didn't want them to know that there was NO SUCH PLACE as pergatory written about in the Bible and why they made it illegal for the common folk to own and read the Bible. Thank GOD literally that there was a man brave enough to stand up to the Pope and hierachy of Rome and risk being beheaded to translate the Bible into German. Of course the Guttenburg press had just been invented allowing Martin's translated Bible from Latin into German to be printed and the rest is HISTORY! Read about it, then study GOD's WORD and then tell me one good reason why anyone should pray a single word to Mary!
I stand behind my religion because I have educated myself on many religions. I don't sit back and rely on what my family upbringing was; Buddha is dead, Mohammed is dead and a wacked out pedophile anyway, aliens are not going to save man but Jesus proved through HISTORIC ACCOUNTS WITNESSED BY THOUSANDS that He was who He said He was and what happened in my life April 18th 2004 proved to me that He is the Son of God and I will stand in the Kingdom of Heaven with Him one day.
And Mary, as good a person as she was, was still a sinner and can no more hear my prayers than my dogs can. God hears me, Jesus hears me and no I don't think the Pope is the Anti-christ . . . . but I do believe we are in the last 20 years before the rapture and I believe the anti-christ is alive today!
Yeah, I'll be all the fanatic I can be for my King, my Saviour and my Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God! I would be proud for people to see me as a fanatic for the King and I'm sure Jesus and God the Father would be proud of me as well. It only reminds me of the song by DC Talk, Jesus Freak:
What will people think
When they hear that Im a Jesus freak? What will people do When they find thats its true? Separated, I cut myself clean From a past that comes back in my darkest of dreams Been apprehended by a spiritual force And a grace that replaced all the me Ive divorced What will people think
When they hear that Im a Jesus freak What will people do when they find that its true I dont really care if they label me a Jesus freak There aint no disguising the truth People say Im strange, does it make me a stranger
That my best Friend was born in a manger What will people think What will people do I dont really care what else can I say There aint no disguising the truth Jesus is the way Peace, word, out. Edited by fullbug13 - February 08 2007 at 20:06 |
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I Never Knew You - Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. |
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006 Location: ibreathehelium Status: Offline Points: 15535 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 02:15 |
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You should read the Geneva Bible. It is full of that stuff. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 02:10 |
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To our newbie preacher.
I can't understand a person boasting about being a fanatic.
R-Dub podst is coherent and I understand his position, he's an honest believer and despite I may and have disagreements with his ideas, I respect them all.
Now this is the fanatic intollerance I'm talking about (Prpaganda at the top of this page):
For God's sake, are this guys for real?
It gets worst with bigotry:
And now it gets insane:
Are you still proud of calling yourself a fanatic?????????
For God's sake, move this thread.
Ivámn
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jplanet
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 30 2006 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 799 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 00:42 |
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Hey E-Dub, nice post!
Cheers, John |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:59 |
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We have been to a church that was a little too 'in your face' and we didn't feel comfortable with it at all. We never returned. I can't defend every single Christian church. I hope you understand that each one has different characteristics. My mom's church is very charismatic with a lot of speaking in tongues, and although it was filled with the Spirit, it didn't suit our needs. To address your other scenario, we have left a church to which we were attending for a very long time. We wanted one closer to home and with a bit more of a contemporary and (pardon the pun) progressive personality. We found our current church up here and when we go, we're met with handshakes, smiles, and sometimes hugs. Just like music, you've got to go with your tastes. Addressing the part about informing the church about leaving: the closest I can come to that is the period between the church we left and our current church, there was about a year when we didn't go. My father passes away and the Pastor conducting the service is the same Pastor of the church we had left. We spoke with Pastor Fite after the service and asked where we were going to church. When we said that we hadn't found one yet, rather than coercing us to come back to his church, Pastor Fite says, "You know, we have people coming from a good distance to our church every Sunday. Some just walk around the corner. The important thing is to not only find a church to which you're comfortable, but just go to church. It doesn't have to be this church. Just find a church that makes you comfortable and go." So, in essence, he was saying that it was OK to go to another church. Not that we needed his blessing, but he applied zero pressure on us to come back to his church. As I said, I can't defend every single church. You're going to find rogue churches that do things that you and I don't agree with. You simply have to go to one that makes you feel like you're coming home. And we definitely feel like we're home when we go to our church. E |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:44 |
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OK, but you're looking at it from a non-Christian point-of-view. You're guilty of the exact same thing. 
Not sure how one can be left feeling judged from Testimony, being that is autobiographical. E |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:42 |
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Well, you're almost there. Our minds ARE on the music; however, our hearts are on the message. E |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:40 |
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You really should hear some of the Christian music I've been listening to. I know what sort of lyrics to which you're referring, and I assure you that it's nothing like that. E |
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red.sector_a
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2006 Status: Offline Points: 101 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:37 |
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im a little late on this but...
im not voting for either one. i really havent been into a band where it really affects the band either way. (besides the whole Neal Morse issue). |
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"...the only excuse for not knowing, is not wanting to know."
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 19:31 |
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I didn't vote because I don't agree with either option. I think most of the time Christianity has ruined the music, but only because the writers felt this strange compulsion to express what is supposed to be an inspiring truth with the most uninspired and bland music and lyrics on the planet. I cannot stand almost all Christian bands because of this. However bands like Proto-Kaw don't bug me with its overtly religious leanings because the lyrics are over simplified dumbed down crap (what's with the trend of simplifying an infinitely complex being anyway) and neither is the music. Livgren himself even wrote an article lashing out at other Christian artists for being so crappy and dull. If I ever decide to write music worshiping God (big if since I haven't a musical bone in my body,) it won't be cheap crap that a three yr old could write in 5 minutes. Anyways /rant.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 19:19 |
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Iván replies in plain normal font
 My colorful blue trademark has been taken 
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 07 2007 at 19:31 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 18:45 |
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Meh, I don't care. As long as it doesn't effect the music. All too often, Christian bands focus on the "message" more than the music. This is why I can't stand "worship bands." If I want to listen to music, I want to listen to MUSIC, not words with a flicker of sound in the background.
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jplanet
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 30 2006 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 799 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 18:39 |
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You both misunderstood my post, and overlooked the clarification I posted after what you quoted. I'm not talking about humility in the face of God. I'm talking about humility and tolerance in the face of other humans who do not believe as you do. The discomfort is the dynamic between you and I, not you and God. What do you think will happen to non-believers when they die? That is the belief that divides us. |
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fullbug13
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 06 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 18:14 |
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You are absolutely right E. Absolutely 100% right!
My pastor is all the time saying how much he is a sinner like everyone else. The Bible says that ALL men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. It's best to point the finger at yourself first before anywhere else. My church just had it's annual pastor's conference with thousands of pastor's from every state and a dozen countries. Those pastor's are not taught that it's about them, but all about God. I heard it last night in both of the last two sermons of the conference.
I belong to the Southern Baptist Convention and first it's all about the love of God and Jesus, then about what it takes to know God and Jesus on a personal, intimate one to one level and that's with salvation through the blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross by Him.
For all of you, if you really think churches are so evil and all pastors are self-righteous and only preach at you and not to you (preaching is how we learn God's word, okay???), please, watch my church's sermons over the internet for a few weeks and judge us for yourselves that way. The church I belong to has been blessed with the best BIBLE TEACHING pastor's a church could have for over 40 years. Our new pastor is the sweetest man alive in my eyes and his predecessor was as sweet too. Our church is taught directly from God's word throughout every sermon. Our church airs its sermons live over the net from www.fbcjax.com. We are on the air Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night (except tonight because we have had the 5 day pastor's conference).
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I Never Knew You - Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:41 |
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Yes of course...I realised it was your opinion, makes my post rather superfluous really doesn't it. |
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jplanet
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 30 2006 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 799 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:18 |
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I have no doubt that the church you belong to is cool and does not use fear or trickery to gain new members, but you can't honestly tell me that you have never heard of churches using coercive tactics. Just as an experiment, tell people in your church that you are thinking about leaving to join another church. See if the "soft-sell" approach is still put into action. If they indicate that you are free to do so, and that God must be calling you to do so for a reason, then by all means, stay with that church for your lifetime. But more than likely, someone will pull you aside to have "a little talk". There is a very subtle "guilt trip" when you walk out of a meeting intended to recruit new church members. Subtle, but powerful. BTW, Ed-dub, I did take the time to explain my post for you above... |
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 18 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7341 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:10 |
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I live in Florida, a very conservative state. I've been to different churches and everyone was saying stuff like "go with Jesus or go to Hell" and all that diatribe. There's never any cool people at church anyway, mainly strait laced conservative folk. I'm not making a stereotype, just stating my observations.
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chessman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 974 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:07 |
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A difficult one to answer really.
As an atheist myself, I have no problem if someone wishes to believe in a God. But I don't think it should affect their musical output.
If the person concerned wishes to make some kind of musical 'statement' about his or her belief, then they should probably channel that into a solo album, and, if they are in a band, leave the music of that band untouched.
I am not saying it necessarily makes the music worse, but I couldn't vote for it improving things, as I can't think of a situation where it has.
To my mind, religion and belief should always be a private thing - even though some believers feel they have some kind of 'divine' or 'sacred' duty to share their views with the rest of the planet.
Those who agree with them will not need converting, and those who don't, in my experience, never change their mind just because someone says so.
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:06 |
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Forced? Man, I don't know what you had to deal with, but I NEVER felt pressured. When I was delivered, while heads were bowed, the pastor simply asked those in attendance if anyone wanted to give their life to God, simply raise your hand and I would be more than happy to speak with you after the service." That's EXACTLY how it happened and never felt pressured. I did it on my own free will. E Edited by E-Dub - February 07 2007 at 17:07 |
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When somebody in your favourite band finds "GOD"
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
