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What ever happened to E.L.P.? |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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That was all based on either intertia or the ability of the bands to change and adapt at least a little. 1977 was still a good year for prog as the bands were still massive and selling out arenas, yep I know that. I mean these bands still sold loads in the 1980's making some real crap. I'm not sure what your point is? By 1980 it seemed everyone who was anyone was being interviewed in music magazines and were busy apoligising for the 'bad' albums they made with those long self indulgent suites and silly lyrics. That was the problem, the great prog revisionism had begun in 1977 and by the 1980's was stinking up the place to high heaven. I suppose with ELP and many bands it's only the legacy that really matters. Protect that at all cost or pay the price. I'm guessing that ELP sold a lot less later on. ELPowell barely cracked the top 40 in the UK but it was way better than Love Beach (not that that was hard to do)
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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It had nothing to do with competition. ELP were already labelled 'Dinosaurs' as were many other bands in the mainstream rock press. Prog rock had thrived when there was a base of music critics who took them seriously. When that changed it was the beginning of the end. Punk Rock was a much more serious thing than you are crediting it for being and a lot of those guys were well aware of prog bands and even liked them. But too many prog artists were stuck up their own bums and were unable to change. Also plain fact of it is that ELP, Yes, Genesis, Supertramp and many more bands of the classic era were running on fumes and their glory days were in the past. Pink Floyd were always a bit late to the party but kind of adapted because they could see what was happening. ELP should have been too big to fail but history tells us otherwise. His Piano Concerto was indeed a step too far but not because it was bad but because of perception (up own arse and all that). Maybe Love Beach was an attempt to look relaxed and 'hey look at us guys we can get down with the kids etc' . It was utterly unconvincing and actually terrible in a very real way. At least with the Piano Concerto, Keith was being authentic and true to himself. Don't ever lose that or you have nothing.
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Rick1 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 14 2020 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 3085 |
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^ I think taking the piss out of Emerson is reason enough.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65780 |
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^ I agree, talk about arrogant. One wonders if the poster is even a musician. I would guess not.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Rick1 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 14 2020 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 3085 |
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^ Wash your mouth out with soap. It's this kind of trolling that got to Keith in the end. The very idea that Kansas were competition, you're having a laugh!
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BasedProgger ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 26 2025 Location: Cyberia Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Pink Floyd did make great albums post 1974. There was a discussion about this last year on the Steve Hoffman music forums suggesting that things would have been better for them and rumor had it all four members told their manager separately they were thinking of leaving the band. Had they broken up, we would have at least got live versions of "Shine on you Crazy Diamond" and two of the songs from Animals, and maybe The Wall could have been a Roger Waters solo album. |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18497 |
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Hi, I think THE WHO did it for the money that was being offered. Without Keith and John, they were not a very good band, and it kinda said it all ... those two added something to the band that was really good all around, and while Keith was appreciated after he left us, John has (pretty much) been ignored for his touch and taste. Honestly, for me, Pete was grossly over rated, and the most that folks remember him for is him being an idiot and doing Bonzo Dog Impressions (Legs Larry Smith taught Keith how to trash drums and such!), and kinda taking it to an extreme (Woodstock), which was not something about his musicianship or talent ... it was something about a young man that didn't care, as much about things as we did ... and trashing them was a way to say ... I'm rich, and you are not. A very good thing in those days in terms of what fame was, that is still going on today with the Internet. LZ is a different beast. RP not thinking much of his early lyrics is not surprising. I think he is tired of the accolades and everything else, and even after a drink, it starts getting monotonous and sick, so one way to let go the boredom is to say something about it, that will get any writers, or interviewers, asking different questions, and hopefully change the subject, or he is gone. The main thing, though, is that Pete and Roger look really tired and not interested or happy. At the very least, all three members left from LZ have a wider appreciation for their work, and how they went out at the top when Bonzo passed away. And they look much better at their history. THE WHO by comparison always felt like they were fighting something all the time, and it got tired after a while, even though they have some fantastic material.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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kirk782 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 06 2024 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 241 |
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Pink Floyd still made decent work post 1974 but many other prog giants didn't. VdGG latter half of the repertoire plays it quite safe and somewhat bland. The Who actually did a farewell tour in 1982, I think, called Who's Last in support of their then LP [It's Hard was it?]. That had Eminence Front , considered by many to be the last great song by the band. Half of the band then re grouped[2 members] to make couple of more albums this side of the century and they couldn't even touch half the greatness of Who's Next. Led Zeppelin were one of the few bands to call it quits and not have a rotating cast of character for the band due to which they were canonized in rock history [despite Robert Plant himself holding his past lyricism not in any high esteem].
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fuxi ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2488 |
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I love THE SIX WIVES too, and awarded it a five-star review. I also greatly enjoyed one of Rick's recent releases: https://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=3052789 |
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65780 |
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^ Yeah it's hard to tell what exactly his point is, especially since WYWH is one of the great albums of the 1970s.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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^ I don't think it is as he doesn't like (or rate) Animals highly.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65780 |
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^ WYWH & Animals are two great records, I think that's his point.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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ELP was all albout those early albums though. I like Works Vol One but 3 sides of solo music was too much for even die hard ELP fans while the later albums were confused messes excepting Black Moon perhaps. But then we get ITHS (2 steps back after 1 forward). I did think about Genesis but actually ATTWT and Duke were fine and well put together records. Later records were not so bad as their reputations excepting CAS but no one really thinks that's a Genesis record anyway. The Who were mainly a live band with one stellar studio album. The comment about Floyd is strange (WYWH and Animals???!!)
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verslibre ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 19269 |
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–Stop with WBMFTTSTNE –80s: Emerson, Lake & Powell (2 albums) –90s: Black Moon A much better look. No 3, either. |
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Jacob Schoolcraft ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 22 2021 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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ELP were very successful in the 70s and very influential to musicians on the East coast of America! I saw them perform at the Spectrum in Philadelphia on the "Welcome Back' tour. The place was packed!! What an event!!
By the time I hit age 18 and started playing Rock clubs and theaters...I could see "hands on" ..just loads of young keyboard players and drummers trying to play like Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer. The drum sets changed quite a bit . Drummers in the tri state area were investing in Carl Palmer's gear. The same applied to Emerson and many pro keyboardist that I knew from the road were in fact trying to play his style . Billy Joel was obviously influenced by Emerson. Obviously on "Angry Young Man" which has the affect of ELP "The Sheriff " and generally he improvised in more of a Emerson style on some of his jazzy songs....for example 52nd Street. With ELP it was all about the impact! It just generated through other musicians up and down the east coast. Even in the 80s...keyboardists still expressed admiration for Emerson. |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18497 |
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Hi, It was a generic comment, and not intended to be taken seriously, or directly as you have. The point was, that the music, in those days, was so different, that few people that posted here on this thread can really relate to it, and I don't mean that badly, in the sense that the times are different, but looking at ELP as if it were a today's band, that should be listed in the monthly numbers, or year end best of lists, makes it look like this old band is not that good ... and I find that sad ... to me it's like saying that Stravinsky is old and dead, and the music is crap ... and that would be a comment on the knowledge of music a lot more on the reality of the situation, and a bit about the history of music, that is/was, once again, poor ... remember that Debussy was booed, and Ravel was thrown garbage for a while. With the media today, we have a chance to set things right, and give the folks that deserve it a chance, and instead, the only thing that can be said is making a comment about what I said instead of adding to the thread. I stand up to be counted, and was there when the music came around ... a lot of folks here would not be there at all because of the commercial reality of things that is so visible today ... not that it wasn't THEN, but that was EXACTLY what we revolted against, and the FM radio dial was our great helper ... to the point that we still discuss that music. Shame that there is little appreciation for what so many folks did and helped this music, and have to put up with some comments! But, that's not to say that there were not comments on ELP then. There were, but I think that many folks were confused with their classical nature opposite their pop/rock stuff. It didn't bother me a whole lot, because it was far out ... but in today's style and parlayance, I think ELP would be trashed even more, specially with anyone being able to say whatever they want, regardless. And it is very sad that it is all about the "preferences" and not the music itself ... there is nothing more that a true musician wants than appreciation for their work. It's what an art is for, and what artists live for.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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BasedProgger ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 26 2025 Location: Cyberia Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Maybe but then again there are a lot of bands that could have stopped after any album and their legacy wouldn't have been tarnished. Genesis could have stopped after Peter Gabriel or Steve Hackett's departure, Pink Floyd could have stopped after 1974, and The Who could have stopped after Keith Moon's death. But they didn't stop and it's best that bands break up when they want to. ELP shouldn't have been forced to make that commercial album. They should have been allowed to stop after Works. |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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People are too often lead by journalistic opinion but then ELP did bring a lot on themselves, ie touring with a 60 piece orchestra during the summer of punk, losing a million dollars a show (as estimated by Greg Lake at the time) and then deciding to do a commercial album with a dreadful cover. This was a band unhinged and scoring several own goals (to use soccer parlance). It was a long road to recovery .. but then they do In The Hot Seat. In truth they should have stopped after the live triple album and then we would probbaly not even be having this debate.
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 46501 |
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Another exaggeration... ![]() While it's true that some people do not understand context or as you say, miss a sense of history, nobody's ever complained about ELP's lack of loud guitar, or complained about Palmer's drumming, or lack of growls (a singing style that came much, much later, seriously, such a weird comment).
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30119 |
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ELP brought a lot on themselves though. I believe in personal responsibility even if I don't always manage it myself! We can talk about ELP's legacy but if you compare them to another stellar 3 piece band The Police then they come off badly and it's obvious to see the reasons why.
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