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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 23:31 |

Alberto Muñoz wrote:
Macca is the brain, and more evident after the death of Epstein.
BTW Sacred 22 i have read the Estulin interview, i do not believe anything about that he's saying about the Beatles.
And i think that Adorno have no time to "compose" the music of the Beatles between 1967-69, becuase he was doing other things, like writing his Aestetic Teory for example. |
Of course, I would be concerned if the majority of people could see thru it. That would just be kookie. What would the point be?????
It's like what Hitler said, he said, "if you are going to sell a lie make sure it's a big one otherwise no one will believe it"
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:28 |
Not recommending anything here, just stating the facts, as I understand them:
Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : (Bob Dylan or some other reprobate person (Mick Jagger?) gets them high.)
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Clear as day.  '
Caveat: except for Pet Sounds, same approach didn't work out so well for Brian Wilson.
Edited by jammun - September 08 2009 at 21:30
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65784
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:27 |
Progosopher wrote:
The fallacy is called post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore on account of this.
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that's the one
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:01 |
Dean wrote:
SentimentalMercenary wrote:
I've got to side with Sacred 22. I do not think he has that much explaining to do to support his case. On the other hand, those who still think that the Beatles were 'geniuses' still have a missing link to account for.
Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : ( )
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Had this happened here and there throughout the history of music, I could think differently and accept that there might not need to be a Step B. Until then, I remain a conspiracy theorist too!   |
You don't need a Step B - anybody who can make a noise on an instrument can create music, being musically illiterate does not mean they couldn't play (two years working in Hamburg clubs and being hired as Tony Sheridan's backing band tends to suggest that even if they were unable to read music, they could certainly play it - incidentally, McCartney had piano lessons, so could read music, but probably not sight-read - he just preferred to play by ear). Once you can play then composition is simply a case of following the templates you've learnt by playing other peoples music.
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All this conspiracy thing is soooo ridiculous. step B??!?! wtf? they didn't produced one masterpiece after another since the beggining, they clearly evolved from album to album, although very quickly. And not reading music doesn't mean they couldn't write songs or think of great and clever arrangements, plus all their music wasn't complex, but it was interesting and original. They might have been illiterate amateurs, but they listened to a lot music, learned very quickly, had good ears, great ideas and an open mind, that's all they needed to produce those masterpieces. Doesn't this makes much more sense?
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 20:42 |
Macca is the brain, and more evident after the death of Epstein.
BTW Sacred 22 i have read the Estulin interview, i do not believe anything about that he's saying about the Beatles.
And i think that Adorno have no time to "compose" the music of the Beatles between 1967-69, becuase he was doing other things, like writing his Aestetic Teory for example.
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6473
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 17:54 |
Matthew T wrote:
I am going for Brian Epstein.........not on the list. He got them em' going |
This would have been my vote too. The Beatles, like every group of artists, needed someone to manage the business end of things. Few musicians can do this themselves. Yes, there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.
Jon Anderson only learned how to read music many years after Yes became huge, so that in itself is not evidence that the Beatles were the facade for a vast conspiricy. That John Lennon was shot after an interview with Playboy proves nothing. The fallacy is called post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore on account of this. Michael Jackson died after Americans started arguing over health care reform. His death was the result of a giant conspiricy to prove that we do need health care reform in this country. It wasn't his doctor that killed him, it was the liberals. 
We've been warned not to believe everything we read. That is most certainly true, and it applies to all of us.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34090
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:54 |
i thought it was Forest Gump  as he also was the man beheind Elvis`s dance moves. no think it is the combo of Lennon and MaCartney and but of Spice from George Harrison and some guidlines frim Geroge Martin.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:52 |
Macca by far
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Matthew T
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 01 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5291
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:37 |
I am going for Brian Epstein.........not on the list. He got them em' going
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Matt
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 13:13 |
Billy was the 8th Beatle. Get hip to the groove, man.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 13:07 |
Lota wrote:
George Martin!!! he was the fifth Beatle....
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I always thought that the 5th Beatle was Billy Preston. Go figure. BTW Pete Best was the brains but that was after Stuart Sutcliffe left.
Edited by crimhead - September 08 2009 at 14:03
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The Runaway
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2009
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 3144
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 11:02 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Sacred 22 wrote:
Here is a quote from John Lennon in his 1980 Playboy magazine interview, which can easily be found on the net. Incidently, talking about so called 'tin foil heads', both he and Yoko would qualify when you consider some of what they said in the interview regarding LSD, society, woman and children. However, that is another story. I really get the feeling that Lennon was really holding back from telling the real story about the Beatles in this interview and his constant bashing of the band is odd to say the least. He was killed shortly after the interview. Anyway, here is the quote:
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The Illuminati and the Jewish Cabal probably co-conspired to have him killed effectively keeping the Beatles true nature secret and cementing their power over the world. |
You are a GENIUS.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 10:11 |
Sacred 22 wrote:
Here is a quote from John Lennon in his 1980 Playboy magazine interview, which can easily be found on the net. Incidently, talking about so called 'tin foil heads', both he and Yoko would qualify when you consider some of what they said in the interview regarding LSD, society, woman and children. However, that is another story. I really get the feeling that Lennon was really holding back from telling the real story about the Beatles in this interview and his constant bashing of the band is odd to say the least. He was killed shortly after the interview. Anyway, here is the quote:
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The Illuminati and the Jewish Cabal probably co-conspired to have him killed effectively keeping the Beatles true nature secret and cementing their power over the world.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - September 08 2009 at 10:11
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 09:43 |
McCartney has perpetrated this "untrained" thing forever, but Blackbird is a combo of Travis picking and the entry level classical piece Bouree by Bach. Do you honestly think a classically trained musician would ever have written "Love Me Do"?
The idea that pop culture is used to distract the public from real issues is absolutely true. But talent has little to do with it. If someone falls out of favor, a new pretty face is found. The Beatles were talented songwriters, mainly because they worked very hard it. They knew 100s if not 1000s of songs from their time slogging in the clubs. They were energetic, had very good ears, had great timing, and evolved along with culture quite adeptly for a time (yes helping produce it also).
Like Genesis, the Beatles were an uncommon collective where each person played a certain part and it happened to compliment quite well, for a time. In that I include George Martin, who indeed was the fifth Beatle.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 09:24 |
SentimentalMercenary wrote:
I've got to side with Sacred 22. I do not think he has that much explaining to do to support his case. On the other hand, those who still think that the Beatles were 'geniuses' still have a missing link to account for.
Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : ( )
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Had this happened here and there throughout the history of music, I could think differently and accept that there might not need to be a Step B. Until then, I remain a conspiracy theorist too!   |
You don't need a Step B - anybody who can make a noise on an instrument can create music, being musically illiterate does not mean they couldn't play (two years working in Hamburg clubs and being hired as Tony Sheridan's backing band tends to suggest that even if they were unable to read music, they could certainly play it - incidentally, McCartney had piano lessons, so could read music, but probably not sight-read - he just preferred to play by ear). Once you can play then composition is simply a case of following the templates you've learnt by playing other peoples music.
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What?
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SentimentalMercenary
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 12 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 08:56 |
I've got to side with Sacred 22. I do not think he has that much explaining to do to support his case. On the other hand, those who still think that the Beatles were 'geniuses' still have a missing link to account for.
Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : ( )
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Had this happened here and there throughout the history of music, I could think differently and accept that there might not need to be a Step B. Until then, I remain a conspiracy theorist too!  
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Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell.
- Karl Popper
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24796
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 02:42 |
None of the fab four can be called "the brain behind the Beatles" properly. So I give George my vote to give him a time with John and Ringo. And with the name of Pete Best already mentioned, I'd like to add Stu Sutcliffe to the list as well.
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The Runaway
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2009
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 3144
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:55 |
King Crimson776 wrote:
Steven Wilson, ov coarse. He went back in time and knocked up four English women who gave birth to the Beatles... actually only three. Ringo was just the drummer they hired. :P
All of this is obviously true if you use common sense, you all just think it's a conspiracy theory because you are all sheep, like the ones described in the song Sheep by Pink Floyd. |
Steven Wilson doesn't drink, smoke, and is only attracted to Israeli females.
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The Runaway
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2009
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 3144
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:55 |
Atavachron wrote:
oh dear.. your point is what? Lennon does little "bashing" and much praising of the band as musicians in that interview. You seem to have a misunderstanding of how music is made and then professionally produced to emerge as real songs. The tapes of the Beatles rehearsing in 68/69 clearly reveal a band who were quite imperfect and only after much reworking and good post-production did the music reach their standard. No secret composers or sinister nu-age machinations.
But really, why do I bother? Must be the debunker in me. Carry on.
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I only know of 1 person who has the whole Get Back tapes, and 30 hours of the whole 100 are arguments and conversations, I mean damn, George even left the studio for 2 days!
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:37 |
A little introspective from Frank Zappa.
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