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Are proghead nerds?

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    Posted: Yesterday at 03:48
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Faul_McCartney Faul_McCartney wrote:


I would agree with that except for the website that we're on. The star system is explicitly about how you would rate music as prog.
That has always been an annoying prognerd feature on PA that should be removed. I don't rate here because of that approach, and that my rating or review isn't valuded anyway.

-Gnik Nosmirk: Coincidentally ELO's Time has been favorite of mine basically all of my life. Ever since I pulled the LP out of my parents record collection as a child - and found the cover art intriguing. I've actually rated it with five stars at RYM. I find it perfect at what it is. An insanely catchy "pop opera" in space (I do find it somewhat progressive too). And of course it would get the exact same rating here if I had bothered. The bands and their music are not to blame for all of PA's badly thought through decicions made back in the day. Time would have gotten five stars at JazzMusicArchives for that matter.



OK, fair enough that the ratings description in PA are perfectible enough (who actually rates that way anyways? ProgDorks and Symph Weenies ??).
But I imagine that the Metal Music Archives are also as "skewed" as a metal-dom scale.
It's a problem that RYM doesn't face since it's a totally open ballgame.

And indeed both prog and to a lesser extent metal were indeed like sects back when the sites were created in 2004, though MMA was born somewhat much later than PA (>> 2010, maybe?)

As for Jazz MA, I guess it was more adult setting though I haven't got a memory about the ratings go up according to some possible "jazz scale".





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Edited by Sean Trane - Yesterday at 04:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 01:14
Originally posted by Faul_McCartney Faul_McCartney wrote:


I would agree with that except for the website that we're on. The star system is explicitly about how you would rate music as prog.
That has always been an annoying prognerd feature on PA that should be removed. I don't rate here because of that approach, and that my rating or review isn't valuded anyway.

-Gnik Nosmirk: Coincidentally ELO's Time has been favorite of mine basically all of my life. Ever since I pulled the LP out of my parents record collection as a child - and found the cover art intriguing. I've actually rated it with five stars at RYM. I find it perfect at what it is. An insanely catchy "pop opera" in space (I do find it somewhat progressive too). And of course it would get the exact same rating here if I had bothered. The bands and their music are not to blame for all of PA's badly thought through decicions made back in the day. Time would have gotten five stars at JazzMusicArchives for that matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faul_McCartney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 23:35
Not inherently, but I feel like the overlap is significant enough the answer might as well be yes. As others have said, it also depends what you consider to be "nerdy".
Originally posted by Gnik Nosmirc Gnik Nosmirc wrote:

I have to admit though, it really frustrates me when I read reviews on ProgArchives that criticize albums simply because they aren't fully progressive. Albums like ELO's Time or Secret Messages are incredible synth-pop works, yet they get one or two stars just because they don't fit neatly into the prog mold. That kind of narrow-mindedness misses the point — you should evaluate an album for what it is, not what it isn't. Judging Time as a progressive rock album is like dismissing a Charli XCX album for not sounding like John Coltrane. It's unfair and ultimately unhelpful.

I would agree with that except for the website that we're on. The star system is explicitly about how you would rate music as prog. The "Prog-Related" and "Proto-prog" ratings are not held to that condition, which is fair enough. I do think a lot in "Crossover", like ELO, should really be in "Related" and not be subject to the same rating.
"De gustibus non est disputandum”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gnik Nosmirc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 17:59
I have to admit though, it really frustrates me when I read reviews on ProgArchives that criticize albums simply because they aren't fully progressive. Albums like ELO's Time or Secret Messages are incredible synth-pop works, yet they get one or two stars just because they don't fit neatly into the prog mold. That kind of narrow-mindedness misses the point — you should evaluate an album for what it is, not what it isn't. Judging Time as a progressive rock album is like dismissing a Charli XCX album for not sounding like John Coltrane. It's unfair and ultimately unhelpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 14:43
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have been quite annoyed with certain "nerdy" "Prog traditionalists" who act like you are mentally deficient or deranged if you don't mention various big names in topics where such names could be relevant as well as people who complain about names getting mentioned in topics that are not so traditionally Prog or typically prog genre.


Greg, I do that just to annoy you, knowing that you are indeed an obscurantist, and find actual good albums to be anathema. But find a recording of a Zeuhl duck clucking along in some exotic Anseriforme dialect accompanied by a mellotron? You are there!***

***No Logans were actually harmed in the making of this post.


Ẁurdah waterfowl... I basically see myself as Dï Destruktïẁ Duk Kommandöh.


Yes, please notice I indicated the duck was clucking. A duck quacking would be way too mainstream.


One does not need to be a clucking genius to notice that.   
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 14:34
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have been quite annoyed with certain "nerdy" "Prog traditionalists" who act like you are mentally deficient or deranged if you don't mention various big names in topics where such names could be relevant as well as people who complain about names getting mentioned in topics that are not so traditionally Prog or typically prog genre.


Greg, I do that just to annoy you, knowing that you are indeed an obscurantist, and find actual good albums to be anathema. But find a recording of a Zeuhl duck clucking along in some exotic Anseriforme dialect accompanied by a mellotron? You are there!***

***No Logans were actually harmed in the making of this post.


Ẁurdah waterfowl... I basically see myself as Dï Destruktïẁ Duk Kommandöh.


Yes, please notice I indicated the duck was clucking. A duck quacking would be way too mainstream.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 14:31
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have been quite annoyed with certain "nerdy" "Prog traditionalists" who act like you are mentally deficient or deranged if you don't mention various big names in topics where such names could be relevant as well as people who complain about names getting mentioned in topics that are not so traditionally Prog or typically prog genre.


Greg, I do that just to annoy you, knowing that you are indeed an obscurantist, and find actual good albums to be anathema. But find a recording of a Zeuhl duck clucking along in some exotic Anseriforme dialect accompanied by a mellotron? You are there!***

***No Logans were actually harmed in the making of this post.


Ẁurdah waterfowl... I basically see myself as Dï Destruktïẁ Duk Kommandöh.
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 13:43
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have been quite annoyed with certain "nerdy" "Prog traditionalists" who act like you are mentally deficient or deranged if you don't mention various big names in topics where such names could be relevant as well as people who complain about names getting mentioned in topics that are not so traditionally Prog or typically prog genre.


Greg, I do that just to annoy you, knowing that you are indeed an obscurantist, and find actual good albums to be anathema. But find a recording of a Zeuhl duck clucking along in some exotic Anseriforme dialect accompanied by a mellotron? You are there!***






***No Logans were actually harmed in the making of this post.
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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 12:51
I have been quite annoyed with certain "nerdy" "Prog traditionalists" who act like you are mentally deficient or deranged if you don't mention various big names in topics where such names could be relevant as well as people who complain about names getting mentioned in topics that are not so traditionally Prog or typically prog genre.

One person used to say of people like me that I liked obscure music for the sake of being obscure, which was not true. I did, however, like discovering lesser-known music and sharing it (and suggesting it for PA inclusion back in the day). And some of us just have less mainstream tastes in the context of "prog circles" than others.

As for gatekeepers/ traditionalists, one would get people complaining about letting in less traditionally Prog (less recognised as of a Prog genre) music into PA, opening up to more categories and styles, acting like the sky is falling when an act they knew little of beyond reputation or a song would get in that is not as associated with Prog generally. This used to happen a lot. Complainers would say that X has nothing to do with Prog and then it could become clear that they were hardly experts on X, nor experts on similar music already in PA.

And then there were those who would complain if one, say, brought up Radiohead in a topic in the Prog lounge, and those who come across like they look down on music included in PA if they think it is not worthy of the Prog label. And there are those who act like Prog is better than other music. One person said it's obviously the best genre, and people responded with, you really believe it's better than all classical, all jazz etc. etc.? Turned out he just meant pop and popular rock music. Whatever... *current mood, ranty*
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gnik Nosmirc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 12:26
One thing I want to point out is that I'm just as much frustrated with nerdy gatekeepers as I am with rock boomers who only ever talk about Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and Dire Straits—turning the entire 1970s into a dull era of hard rock and bluegrass, as if nothing worthwhile happened until the 1980s came along and 'saved' music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2025 at 09:49
Mmm it’s a definite No! I just enjoy complexed music!
Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."



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Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 16:01
Unfortunately I dragged this topic away from its original premise. I got sidetracked.   I confess to being a music nerd. Not just a prog nerd, but music History from the 50s through the present. I read about music, search the webs for things I like, I even roll out a song of my own once in a while. I collect vinyls, I buy and sell old vinyls on eBay to supplement my income. My computer is full of wav. Files long lost by me. I’ve been a music nerd since I purchased “paperback writer” some time in the 60s when I was still a kid. My first prog album was aqualung. Then I went out and got T. Rex electric warrior. In high school my friend Audie introduced me to Hawkwind, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant. I did not care for Gentle Giant. I spent 2 years as a DJ at our college radio station. ( miserable job I don’t recommend). My wife and kids hate just about everything I listen to, so I know I’ve reached the pinnacle of Nerdism. My be latest musical crush is for Anje Plasch (soap&skin) . It’s a gentle kind of music with a classical piano and a haunting beautiful strange voice. Not Rock or Prog but super engaging.

Edited by Valdez - June 04 2025 at 16:04
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 15:41
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Of course. I didn't even know he had opinions. I only used him because you wrote this
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

If you're listening to Diddy, that's on you.

Valdez posted the Diddy link, not me.


Yes I did…. I’m a music nerd.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 15:37
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Of course. I didn't even know he had opinions. I only used him because you wrote this
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

If you're listening to Diddy, that's on you.

Valdez posted the Diddy link, not me.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 15:22
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^^^ I guess is was the 3:27 edit of Roundabout that got radio airplay.


I still have that short 45 rpm record. Alas, no sleeve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 15:13
Agreed he is a tool .
Sting sold his entire catalog to UMG and its many satellites. Yeah they market him heavily.

McCartney is a music mogul in his own right who has a deal with Sony. His music is marketed worldwide.
Cat Steven’s has a sweet deal with BMG and it’s conglomerate, and they make sure he stays relevant sales-wise. marketing is how they stay relevant at all.   Taylor Swift was able to buy back her catalog but they fought her tooth and nail for it. Bakullama has 150.00 and a Bandcamp page . lol. Bands are relevant as long as they can be sold. I admire the many prog bands who take ownership of all facets of their music from production to online sales. I’m sure there are those that have been offered exposure to the worldwide audience for a price, and have turned down the offers.   That’s about all I’ve got. Diddys boastful rant only serves to expose the power these people think the wield over the listeners and he is a moron but he is not wrong.   Judging from the testimonies of so called victims, I’m willing to bet his mansion and underground tunnels and deep connections will be no more. Prince, who I admire as a musician and as a man had a few things to say about the music business. Deep dark and dangerous.
As are all things, when billions of dollars are floating about.

Edited by Valdez - June 04 2025 at 15:17
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 14:57
^Of course. I didn't even know he had opinions. I only used him because you wrote this
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

If you're listening to Diddy, that's on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 14:26
Diddy is an idiot, and I very much doubt in ten years anyone will care about his opinions or his music.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 14:17
^^^ I guess is was the 3:27 edit of Roundabout that got radio airplay. What sells tickets at venues and festivals does not refelct the charts or radio airplay at all. Modern Rock, Jazz etc. is doing much better than a lot of artists with forgettable hits. I think the music listeners and their hunger for - if not Progressive Fusion - maybe something that feels "real and authentic" is underestimated by labels and others who push the songs we're forced to listen to whether we want to or not (not we as I). And I think they will die out eventually.

-I'm not sure what point that young much people rather listen to The Police over Diddy proved for you btw.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - June 04 2025 at 14:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2025 at 14:08
Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

All I know is when the next new fad in music is realized, the money men will be on the scene immediately to push it on the masses, and race each other to create more of it… and then bleed it for every red cent. And the music business has been that way since Sinatra and Elvis. The masses are so easily sold. The sellers lay in wait… In mansions.


Exactly.   And it's not the masses that are easily sold, it's the sellers.   

People buy, sellers sell.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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