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ghost_of_morphy 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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 Topic: The departure that turned out to be a real boost!
Posted: July 09 2007 at 22:17 |
 Soul Dreamer wrote:
Not in the list, but Peter Banks leaving Yes after Time and a Word, and Steve Howe entering, must be the biggest boost any band ever had. |
/co-signed
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 21:11 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
Brave is great, but I dont know of ANY other of my fellow americans who have ever heard of marillion |
I never did either until a few short years ago. Now, it's the best disc I own.
Simply because your little circle of friends have never heard of them doesn't discredit their place in music. They haven't had the impact that Yes or King Crimson have made, but they're still putting out quality music and have a wildly devoted following. Maybe you need to enlighten them a bit, eh?
E
Edited by E-Dub - July 09 2007 at 21:16
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 11:53 |
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Brave is great, but I dont know of ANY other of my fellow americans who have ever heard of marillion
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 10:40 |
E-Dub wrote:
A friend and I were emailing back and forth last week and he experienced the same sort of snobbery here in the States as he attended NEARFest some years ago. I preface this by saying that this friend of mine likes all types of music and has an open mind when it comes to progressive music; however, on this day he chose to wear his Marillion Brave t-shirt, to which he was faced with elitists laughing and snickering like a group of school girls. It actually made me a little ill, to be honest.
E |
That is a real shame. Another example of music snobbery.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 09:39 |
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Kevin Ayers and Daevid Allen leaving Soft Machine.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:14 |
I remember that wearing special t-shirts in the 'neo-prog deluge days' was hot, a kind of cult-following behaviour: if you were a Dutch Marillion fan (a Freak) and you were wearing a t-shirt you could buy only in the UK than you had gained respect and every foreign Marillion concert you had attended also counted very much. Soon you were allowed on a higher level of a group of experienced and highly dedicated Freaks. And they acted very noisy and were often yelling "hello Fish, do you remember me from yesterday" or something like that, quite arrogant and childish  Gradually this behaviour of the Freaks turned out to be a human variation of the baboon hill and the top of the baboon hill was the front row or in front of Fish, there you could find the 'personal friends of Fish', the upper class in the world of the Freaks 
Edited by erik neuteboom - July 08 2007 at 11:21
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:13 |
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A friend and I were emailing back and forth last week and he experienced the same sort of snobbery here in the States as he attended NEARFest some years ago. I preface this by saying that this friend of mine likes all types of music and has an open mind when it comes to progressive music; however, on this day he chose to wear his Marillion Brave t-shirt, to which he was faced with elitists laughing and snickering like a group of school girls. It actually made me a little ill, to be honest.
E
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:51 |
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voted for Hackett leaving Genesis... for two reasons..
freed up Hackett to explore his creative side and put out some great solo albums..
freed up Genesis to explore where their true talents where... pop music.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 07:40 |
I saw Marillion, Pallas, Pendragon and Twelfth Night at Reading Rock 1983 (aged 16), though the real highlight was The Enid. I admit now that I was a little bit snobby about neoprog "johnny-come-lately" bands at the time, but that festival made me see the light.
re Patrick Woodroffe, klopt als 'n bus.
Edited by emdiar - July 08 2007 at 08:31
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 06:26 |
Congratulations with your Dutch 'inburgering' Emdiar  ! And I enjoyed the deluge of neo-prog too, wonderful days, for example Marillion of Pinkpop 1984 (Fugazi tour) and Pallas 1986 in Paradiso, the keyboardplayer was surrounded by vintage keyboards (including the Mellotron M400) like Rick Wakeman and how bombastic Pallas sounded in those days 
I have owned that Dave Greenslade album, it contains a huge booklet with pictures from the same artist as on Pallas their album The Sentinel, was it Patrick Woodroffe or something like that?
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: July 08 2007 at 05:25 |
I remember my Sympho-Prog ellitist school friends looking with dismay when I suggested (aged 16) that there may well be a lot to gain from listening to Gong, Hawkwind, Here and Now, Roy Harper and the like. To them this was heresy. They'd only just got used to me borrowing Weather Report, Fairport Convention and Joni Mitchell LPs from the local library. We were poor school kids who could afford very few records, and so it was in our interest to limit our tastes, but as Fish's Marillion were just about to unleash a deluge of neoprog, a lot of which I found contrived wannabe prog, I choose a different path to my mates.
I can't stand by and be accused of Prog puritanism. Today I have Porcupine Tree in my car stereo. Yesterday it was Miles Davis. The day before that it was the Jam, the Specials and Doe Maar (yes Erik, I'm volledig ingeburgerd ). Before that, Zep, Fish Bone and the Ozrics. Last week I played my vinyl copy of Dave Greenslade's "Pentateuch of the Cosmogany" with non other than everybody's mate, Phil Collins on drums.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 18:30 |
StyLaZen, I share your vision that you should be aware of being not to much focussed on one category or one kind of music. I have huge problems with fans who claim that "this is perfect music" or "this is intelligent song writing" because this kind of language sound a bit too elitair, unfortunately I notice it frequently when reviewers wants to emphasize that the music they love is superior or the ultimate way of pleasing the ears, SNOBS!!
For instance, I love melodic symphonic prog with cascades of vintage keyboards or 20 minute pieces with lots of shifting moods but at other moments I am delighted about Seventies Status Quo, Brian Setzer his rock and roll driven guitar work, the Roumanian or Greek folk music, 74-77 Tangerine Dream electrionic music, a Grand piano piece (Rachmaninov or Chopin), an Indian raga with tablas and sitar or some pure flamenco guitar (Paco De Lucia, Paco Pena or Sabicas) and I still like to discover music like rock and roll music (from Chuck Berry to Jerry Lee Lewis)
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 16:03 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
StyLaZen: you said "She helped bring me out of the closed world of the purist Prog I let myself get into and into a more open music experience." but in fact you mean "She helped bring me out of MY closed world of the purist Prog I let myself get into and into a more open music experience." .... that is quite a difference because prog rock / prog music is very varied and I know many progrock bands (from the past and present) that music music with an open mind and don't let you live in a close world. |
OK, I'll buy that. Wasn't very good grammar on my part, though. I was trying to point out that I totally shut out other types of music I had gotten into during early high school days. Bands like AC/DC, Van Halen, Springsteen, The Allman Brothers, Dylan, The Stones, etc...not only did I refuse to listen to, because the music was "simple", but deserved no accolades. from anyone. Anyone, who was a fan of those types, was perceived as a simpleton in my eyes.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 12:17 |
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StyLaZen: you said "She helped bring me out of the closed world of the purist Prog I let myself get into and into a more open music experience." but in fact you mean "She helped bring me out of MY closed world of the purist Prog I let myself get into and into a more open music experience." .... that is quite a difference because prog rock / prog music is very varied and I know many progrock bands (from the past and present) that music music with an open mind and don't let you live in a close world.
Edited by erik neuteboom - July 07 2007 at 12:18
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 09:37 |
emdiar wrote:
Unfortunately talent is in no way proportional to fan base, inversely or directly. Any prog fan knows that. (That's Prog fans, not Phil phanciers.)
Wow. As I was typing this Phil appeared on Sky News at the Live Earth concert, admitting he knew nothing about carbon emissions and their effect on the planet, and my wife, unaware of this thread, said, "I like Phil Collins, I do".
I'm just off to look up a good divorce lawyer............  |
The definition of talent then comes into question. As much as I dislike Madonna's music, she has talent. Talent is one of the elements that creates mass appeal. Bands like Gentle Giant, although we perceive them as above average with talent, lack something to have allowed them mass appeal. Prog fans are a minority in the world of the music listener. Much like the elitist Jazz listener, whom I have quite a few pompous friends, consider my favorite Prog bands as wannabes musicians that could never reach the accomplishments of a "true" musician. But this point illustrates, as you indicate, talent and fanbase are not proportional, but I will say that without talent any fame is short lived. My wife is a fan of Phil Collins. Back in '78, when she started attending concerts, she was a big fan of Gabriel Genesis. In fact the whole Prog scene was part of her life before hooking up with me, as she had seen ELP, Yes (three times), Genesis (5 times), and Kansas. I wish I was so lucky. She doesn't like listening to that music much anymore because it's "stuffy" and "doesn't make you feel good". She helped bring me out of the closed world of the purist Prog I let myself get into and into a more open music experience. Although I can't tolerate one of her favorites, the Grateful Dead, she says they are the prime example of music freedom. Total live free form. I shut myself out of good music once. It won't happen again.
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 09:15 |
Unfortunately talent is in no way proportional to fan base, inversely or directly. Any prog fan knows that. (That's Prog fans, not Phil phanciers.)
Wow. As I was typing this Phil appeared on Sky News at the Live Earth concert, admitting he knew nothing about carbon emissions and their effect on the planet, and my wife, unaware of this thread, said, "I like Phil Collins, I do".
I'm just off to look up a good divorce lawyer............
Edited by emdiar - July 07 2007 at 09:17
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65922
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 21:21 |
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when 'Stumpy' Pete died and was replaced by some other drummer, Spinal Tap really took off
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 21:19 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
emdiar wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Two of their members were gone, so why would they try and sound like they were still five ? This was a perfect opportunity for them to try something new, which is one of the most exciting challenges as a musician (being one myself I can confirm this to you). |
Gee thanks, 'cus having played bass since 1979, recording and touring in countless bands, I really needed that pointing out.
(that sounds a lot more facetious than I meant it to. Don't mind me, I'm in a sarcy mood, having been held down and clubbed.)
(collins still sucks! ) |
Wow, then you really must be bad. How many fans do you have? Oh, I have it wrong, talent is inversely proportional to fans base. 
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No, talent is inversely proportional to amount of time wasted in discussing if phil collins is God or Satan..... 
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 18:44 |
emdiar wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Two of their members were gone, so why would they try and sound like they were still five ? This was a perfect opportunity for them to try something new, which is one of the most exciting challenges as a musician (being one myself I can confirm this to you). |
Gee thanks, 'cus having played bass since 1979, recording and touring in countless bands, I really needed that pointing out.
(that sounds a lot more facetious than I meant it to. Don't mind me, I'm in a sarcy mood, having been held down and clubbed.)
(collins still sucks! ) |
Wow, then you really must be bad. How many fans do you have? Oh, I have it wrong, talent is inversely proportional to fans base.
Edited by StyLaZyn - July 06 2007 at 18:46
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 17:59 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Two of their members were gone, so why would they try and sound like they were still five ? This was a perfect opportunity for them to try something new, which is one of the most exciting challenges as a musician (being one myself I can confirm this to you).
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Gee thanks, 'cus having played bass since 1979, recording and touring in countless bands, I really needed that pointing out.
(that sounds a lot more facetious than I meant it to. Don't mind me, I'm in a sarcy mood, having been held down and clubbed.)
(collins still sucks! )
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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The departure that turned out to be a real boost!
