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The Marillion Round Table |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30079 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: March 11 2025 at 20:56 |
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I can only talk about 2 bands as I didn't listen to most ''Neo Prog'' back in the 80's. It was 'IQ v Marillion' and that was it for me. IQ - The Wake and Marillion's debut album pretty much define the genre. It's Genesis without the wimsy replaced by a more hard edged post punk style. Neither band churned out the same thing though. Marillion's first 7 albums are all different, a constant reinvention that seems more and more impressive as the decades roll on. IQ started out a lot closer to the Genesis template with Tales From The Lush Attic but evenually ended up on the AOR/Pop side of the genre by the back end of the 80's. The only other remotely 'neo' band I noticed in that decade was It Bites but they seemed more pop than anything. However Francis Dunnery has just recently popped up on Dave Kerzner's 'reimagining' of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway and does a solid stab at Peter Gabriel's vocal internations. Shows he was probably a Gabriel era Genesis fan if nothing else. Personally I would 'retire' the whole Neo Prog genre label as it was an historical thing and not a real musical genre. 'Crossover' is adequate enough and has more or less replaced it imo.
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Rexorcist ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2025 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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They've easily been steering out of it more and more with each album, like how Tool have become less alt-metal and more prog rock. I'd say they were in their earlier days, but albums 3 and 4 pushed the buttons and 5 barely did anything with neo-prog.
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essexboyinwales ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 5310 |
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And seeng as we’re on the subject of Marillion, Fish played his final ever show last night…..
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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essexboyinwales ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 5310 |
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Interesting post….but Frost*, brilliant as they are, are (to my ears) not neo-progressive!
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 18023 |
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Call it disco.......who cares
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Rexorcist ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2025 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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I am about to piss off the entire world... Misplaced Childhood is not neo-prog. OK, here me out. I've been heavily exploring neo-prog and many recommendations for a couple weeks now, and I'm starting to get a major appreciation for it. But before I ever got into neo-prog, years before even, I was already into a good deal of classic rock bands. Even though I'm more of a 70's guy, I've had a huge share of 80's rock, including with synths, under my belt. And once I started exploring forums like these, standard prog, symphonic prog and prog metal became a few of my favorite genres. But I couldn't get into neo-prog for its abundance of samey albums and simplicity at first, so it took years for me to go on my second ever neo-prog binge. And at this point, I've been pointed to and discovered many greats like Frost, Arena, Edge and Satellite, although some albums tend to REALLY push the limits. Today I listened to Beat the Drum by Pallas and Pride by Arena. Beat the Drum was just overlong, decent but sappy AOR with no prog to it whatsoever, and Arena's Pride was a surprising and eclectic piece that gained a 9/10 from me. I've had to deal with a plethora of pop rock, big music and AOR albums I wouldn't call prog. If I'm going to call neo-prog "neo-prog," then it has to be as much "prog" as it is "neo." So I re-evaluated Misplaced Childhood immediately after having difficulty finding but succeeding in locating the debut album of Satellite, which is nearly neo-prog perfection to me. It pushes both the limits of pop structures and prog structures while maintaining a synth-driven orchestra of surprises. Misplaced Childhood, however, is WAY too poppy. Actualy neo-prog behavior takes up about 10% of the album. Yes, it's synth-driven, melodramatic and sounds like Genesis. But its structures are just too accessible, and every song meets this basic standard. There's an eight-minute track and a nine-and-a-half-minute track, and yet the only instance of actual prog behavior was the beginning of Heart of Lothian, which got betrayed after like 45 seconds. This may have INFLUENCED many neo-prog bands afterwards, but influence and actually being something are two different things, like proto-punk for example. Now their debut? Easily neo-prog. Seasons End? A bit of a genre-bender, but yes. Fugazi? Makes the cut pretty easily. I'm re-evaluating Clutching of Straws right now. But this poppy stuff? Since it's connected to one of the first big neo-prog bands, and they were easily a part of that scene before, it feels to me that, much like other AOR or pop rock albums by neo-prog bands, that this is only called neo-prog because it's getting lumped in the scene, like how Melvins barely did any grunge until the mid-90's and yet they were called grunge because of the Deep Six comp from C/Z Records promoting the local scene. I remember for years I was involved in an RYM argument over whether or not The Wall qualified as prog at all, and I defended it. But The Final Cut was tagged as prog when The Wall wasn't, and that got on my nerves until they finally took the damn tag off. I still believe The Wall is proggy enough. Basically, I'm convinced that Misplaced Childhood is only called something it's not for a number of reasons that create a lot of mistagging. I have to be honest and speak that opinion. Having said all this, I never said that this isn't a great album. If it's one of your favorite albums, even with my high belief in subjectivity aside, I really can't blame you. It has an excellent epic vibe about it, and some great melodies are featured. With some of the variety that made The Joshua Tree a hit, it might be a perfect album in my book. But I'm taking it off my neo-prog chart and labelling it under "pop rock" and "big music."
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 46450 |
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![]() Marillion are making funny jokes on facebook Edited by Cristi - November 13 2024 at 07:02 |
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Boojieboy ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 02 2016 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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There's something refreshing in the earlier, and I'd say healthier, days of Marillion with Hogarth.
There's quite a bit of positive energy and enthusiasm in say, Holidays in Eden and This Strange Engine. But I haven't seen that in the band in a long time. They've lost their way. Maybe too many people have cheered them on regardless of what they put out - sort of a worshipping complex. But older fans, musicians, and close listeners could share some helpful tips for them. There's a danger that tends to come with bands at it for decades, many years. A certain tunnel-vision, to where their long-standing ways dominate, and earlier fresher and more objective ways are hard to see, sense, or remember.
Edited by Boojieboy - March 14 2022 at 17:16 |
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Jackal3000 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: December 27 2017 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Since they have so many releases on DVD and CD that have gone OOP, I'm sure this price is worthwhile to many people. I have pretty much all of Marillion's releases, so it would be of no use to me, but if I didn't have several of those releases (at least), I'd be using it.
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13857 |
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Sheer class
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 46450 |
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 18023 |
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Well Steve, you make a good argument to not spend the cash. Since you love to iron maybe you can start a small Saturday night ironing service to help fund the Marillion streaming service.....I believe that is a brilliant idea coming from your brilliant friend across the pond. I'll send you a bag of my boxers to press as a start. ![]() ![]() I would suspect that what is streaming is available on Youtube, you could do the 7 day free trial and then decide if the content is something you already have. Our Mrs Generals are similar in that the one I report to would not mind either, she regularly encourages me to buy records online during this stay at home period but its me, just not too interested right now plus I prefer to flip thru bins rather than click thru bins. As you detailed the fee is out of line with what you pay for other services, but it is Marillion. |
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13857 |
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After watching a DVD last night with a few beers and doing the ironing (as you do), I decided to watch a few videos on YouTube before retiring to my slumbers, and this usually involves watching some of the fine live performances by Marillion.
I then took a look, prompted, at the Marillion app I downloaded a wee while ago. I was there directed to a new streaming service by the band of lots of fine stuff for a seven day free period, before signing up to a pay view service of £5.50 per month. Now I love this band, as you all know. I have a pile of dvds charting all periods of the band live career, and have also downloaded from the band’s website a couple of gigs I attended in person. I will not, however, take up this offer. Even though I could afford this, it strikes me as being quite expensive. Amazon Prime only sets me back some £7-odd per month, and Netflix about £10. Sky and BT Sports and movie packages quite a bit more. I would, in truth, struggle to justify this sort of expenditure to the Mrs General, although I might add that I am sure she wouldn’t say a thing against it. It is me. I have spent quite a bit of dosh on this band and it’s personnel over the years, and there is something about this that strikes me as being a request for money too far. It might have been a bit different had they included other acts such as IQ, Pendragon, and etc., making it a sort of British talent streaming service. Then I would be straight in. Anyhow, what do you think? Is Laz being a little bit of a tight arse with the cash, or do I have a point?
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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geekfreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 21 2013 Location: Musical Garden Status: Offline Points: 9877 |
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Spring in my step too!
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 18023 |
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Wow nice to see an "old timer" posting or at least visiting for a bit ![]() There are a few of us still waving the Marillion banner, as Steve (Laz) mentioned. They remain in constant rotation when I sit and spin some records. I love many parts of FEAR, with some I can skip but I don't move the tonearm once it hits the record, I listen to full sides. So much of their catalog hits different parts of what I like.... Cheers!
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13857 |
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Hmm, interesting re FEAR. My review said it all, really, but, in respect of energy, The Leavers just has tons of it, IMO. With regard to management, the only real contact I have had is after I conducted my interview for this site with Pete and Eric aka Edison’s Children. It had some good feedback, so I wrote to her asking if the band would be interested, given the utter lack of h-related stuff here. I didn’t receive a response, which I thought a bit queer, but didn’t pursue. Nice to hear about Steve, and I hope you drop by more often here. You are missed.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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E-Dub ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
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Not sure what brought me back to PA. Just been a while and thought I'd look in on this room. Facebook seems to occupy most of my forum talk or social media-ing.
I really wish I shared your opinion of FEAR. I tried over and over and I couldn't get into it, and if not for Less Is More, it could be my least favorite Marillion album ever produced. I just find it lacks energy and melody. I think what started it for me is when the the advanced download of "The New Kings" was given to those who pre-ordered. About 3-4 minutes into it I just had a sinking feeling. And then when I got the whole album, it just didn't grab me at all. I would shelve it and then come back to it and still nothing resonated. I did listen to Afraid Of Sunlight (the new deluxe) and the Friday night show in Montreal recently, but have basically been on a Marillion break. Sort of got into it with management and (sorry) some pretty insulting and offensive things were said to me. People hold her in high reverence, but I'm definitely not one of them. I think that combination has cooled my jets. I hate it because I miss the passion I had with the band. Hopefully it comes back again. Hopefully a new album that blows the skirt up over my head (that's just a figure of speech. HA!) will change things. Glad everyone is doing well. I still keep in contact with Steve Perry. He actually flew down last year and we drove to Nashville to attend Morsefest. A couple of years before that he came down for Morsefest, but we drove over to my hometown of Kansas City and stayed with mom and saw the ARW version of Yes. Steve's still doing very well. Hope all are doing well, E
Edited by E-Dub - April 16 2020 at 13:18 |
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13857 |
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They are jamming and preparing as we speak. Hopefully, next year.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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geekfreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 21 2013 Location: Musical Garden Status: Offline Points: 9877 |
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Took the words out of my mouth
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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