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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Am I reading this correctly?
    Posted: February 05 2013 at 18:25
^^^ That is odd! Those HTML codes are showing up usually when one tries to post a picture or youtube clip. It means that the post is not compatible with the message codes and is trying to make sense of it by posting HTML codes in place of the picture. Do you have any pictures in a sig that do not have a compatibility with the forum? If so delete it. Also you can delete codes after the message is sent if that helps

This may not help so:

Message the admins here to find out more
http://www.progarchives.com/all_collaborators.asp

Report bugs here
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=5 

Be interesting to find out what the problem is
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2013 at 17:54
Originally posted by Gallifrey Gallifrey wrote:

Wait and Viljans Oga will drop. It's the massive high votes of the fanboys that get it there. It normally drops after a while. Steven Wilson's Grace For Drowning peaked at 12, Anathema's Weather Systems got at least in the top 30, so it's a regular pattern.


Grace for Drowning only dropped because people went crazy with 1/5 scores on it.
How weather systems dropped off the top 100 baffles me as well. 
I also have no idea why my posts result in a flood of code. Mods? 
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Edited by Daggor - February 05 2013 at 17:57
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Points: 30252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 09:58
Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

^ I agree with the positive comments on ELP, although  . . .

Par Lindh's work is interesting, but the vocals sound awful to me (unless I've heard the wrong tracks);

Ars Nova are a Japanese all-female rock band that sound like ELP, but I don't think they have vocals - or do they?
Ars Nova is also a RPI band with vocals. Both are on PA


I assumed the Keyboards Triangle was the Japanese Ars Nova.
It is. There are vocals are sort but not words. Its very cleverly done imo
 
Par Lindh Porject - Gothic Impressions was mostly sang by Par Lindh himself going for a singing Monk sort of approach. The next two studio albums had the wonderfull Magda Hagberg singing (now sadly passed on) and those are the best PLP albums imo. The recent album Time Mirror is a completely different line up and pulls more inspiration from ELP although is not as symphonic in approach. That may sound like a contradiction but you would need to hear it to understand what I meanSmile
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Points: 727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 08:27
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

^ I agree with the positive comments on ELP, although  . . .

Par Lindh's work is interesting, but the vocals sound awful to me (unless I've heard the wrong tracks);

Ars Nova are a Japanese all-female rock band that sound like ELP, but I don't think they have vocals - or do they?
Ars Nova is also a RPI band with vocals. Both are on PA


I assumed the Keyboards Triangle was the Japanese Ars Nova.
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Points: 14892 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 08:21
Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

^ I agree with the positive comments on ELP, although  . . .

Par Lindh's work is interesting, but the vocals sound awful to me (unless I've heard the wrong tracks);

Ars Nova are a Japanese all-female rock band that sound like ELP, but I don't think they have vocals - or do they?
Ars Nova is also a RPI band with vocals. Both are on PA
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 06:14
^ I agree with the positive comments on ELP, although  . . .

Par Lindh's work is interesting, but the vocals sound awful to me (unless I've heard the wrong tracks);

Ars Nova are a Japanese all-female rock band that sound like ELP, but I don't think they have vocals - or do they?


Edited by Big Ears - January 26 2013 at 06:16
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Points: 30252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 02:43
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

In defence of ELP, they produced true moments of sublime symphonic prog - everybody who likes Yes/Genesis/Floyd/Camel must surely appreciate some of Tarkus, KE9 - PAAE. Incidentally - I would also recommend  Jordan Rudess' rendition of Tarkus -absolutely fantastic.......
Ars Nova have done my favourite tribute version of Tarkus adding a nice Japanese flavour to it (can be found on The Keyboards Triangle tribute to ELP, Trace, Rick Wakeman, PFM and Banco)
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Points: 3136 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2013 at 06:39
In defence of ELP, they produced true moments of sublime symphonic prog - everybody who likes Yes/Genesis/Floyd/Camel must surely appreciate some of Tarkus, KE9 - PAAE. Incidentally - I would also recommend  Jordan Rudess' rendition of Tarkus -absolutely fantastic.......
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2013 at 05:10
Im not a keyboard player, but i totaly love, Chopin, Bethoven, Chick Corea, Éric Satie, Yes
Nothing against a good keyboard player, but in my ears, ELP is just  boring music.  
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 30252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2013 at 01:50

^Not heard Nexus. Also not heard Flash another band recommended on a different thread. Thats two I need to check out.Smile
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Points: 3136 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2013 at 06:23
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by aldri7 aldri7 wrote:

How one feels about ELP can really depends on whether you are a keyboardist first and prog fan second, or perhaps the other way around. I'm a keyboardist first and so I was always a KeithEmerson/ ELP fan. 

But musically, I feel ELP was at times as much a victim of Keith's playing as it was defined by it. Unfortunately, he was more of a showman than an intellectual. Sometimes, virtuosity gets in the way of how others relate to your music. You want them to connect emotionally to it, not just go "Oh wow - can he play".

Anyway, I spent weeks learning to play Tarkus on the piano when I was 18. I was totally absorbed and awestruck by Keith for years. That he flashed and burned more noticeably than others takes nothing away from the brilliance of his unique approach to playing and his harmonic language. I only wish he had shown a little more restraint and crammed a little less of his cranial matter into his fingers. Sometimes, a band needs another member who can step back and play John Lennon alongside Liberace. Showmen by themselves can't always be relied upon to make artistic decisions regarding taste, etc.  

But I never like to see people trash anyone who went his own way rather than played it safe an imitated others. Keith just did what felt right to him. Whether ELP was "pure prog" or not is not even worthy of contemplating.  And ELP's legacy as a prog band doesn't matter to me as much as Keith's legacy as a keyboardist. Non keyboardists may shrug today when they listen to ELP. But I know young keyboardists really dig him still and want to learn how to play Tarkus, etc like I did. He is and always will be a legend to us. The problem is though that the most imitated bands set the standard by which young ears judge other music today. So that if it doesn't sound like King Crimson, Genesis or Pink Floyd, it sounds "funny" to them. Truth be told though - the ELP sound is less imitated yes - in part, due to poor artistic decisions they made at times, but also - it is less imitated because its so friggin' difficult! I do hear Keith imitators playing prog that otherwise sounds very little like ELP. Thats kind of what happens now, and while it sounds tame and watered down by comparison, it also is devoid of the excess and the filler songs that ELP detractors always bring up whenever they are comparing prog bands. I dunno - but Keith should have started a school where he taught others how he does it. And then maybe they could carry on that tradition, build on it and refine it. It beats us guys still trying to pic it all out note for note from listening (yeah, I know, you can buy Tarkus/ELP song books today, but anyway)...

aldri7


 
I would make a couple of points regarding the paragraph I have highlighted.
 
Firstly if Keith Emerson had shown 'restraint' then presumably the music would have been very different? I think fans love the ELP sections where they cut loose. For instance the Bab Yaga section on the Pictures from Lyceum is just one of the most wonderous things I ever heard. ELP in full throttle mood were awe inspiring at that time. Sorry but I don't want restraint!
 
Also I believe Greg Lake was the rudder in the band and helped make steer the band on making artistic decisions. He put his stamp on much of ELP's music although people for some reason will believe that he was a 'bit part' player in the band. ELP made music that was heavily weighted towards symphonic classical and keyboards orientated music because that was different and unique and put then apart from others. I don't see a problem. In general I think this kind of music fairs badly on the PA charts. Where are Rick Wakeman, Par Lindh, Glass Hammer, Greenslade and Refugee in the top 100. Answer - nowhere! ELP debut is probably the only keyboard based album in the top 100 so I believe this type of music represents a niche market and that the lack of ELP albums in the top 100 is not down to Keith Emerson making poor artistic choices at all.
Nice to see somebody else recognising keyboard wizardry beyond Emerson....Greenslade IMHO - produced the finest ever doom-laden depresso-kill hammond organ solo ever in Drum Folk......Par Lindh has produced one of the finest keyboard oriented albums ever (Gothic Impressions) Glass hammer is teeming with keyboard's ...interestingly not heard any refugee.....and seeing as you must have similar tastes to me - have you heard any Nexus - coz these are my current fave.....
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Points: 115 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2013 at 03:03
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

 

Firstly if Keith Emerson had shown 'restraint' then presumably the music would have been very different?
 

somewhat different, maybe, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. I think ELP could have been an even better band given the talent that they had. 
 
But if it was me voting, the ELP album, Tarkus, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery would all be ranked in the PA top 50. Tarkus would be in my top 10. 

I can be really hard on my beloved geniuses, but I will rally around them without fail when others criticize them, so I'm really more in your camp...

aldri7
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Points: 30252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2013 at 01:34
Originally posted by aldri7 aldri7 wrote:

How one feels about ELP can really depends on whether you are a keyboardist first and prog fan second, or perhaps the other way around. I'm a keyboardist first and so I was always a KeithEmerson/ ELP fan. 

But musically, I feel ELP was at times as much a victim of Keith's playing as it was defined by it. Unfortunately, he was more of a showman than an intellectual. Sometimes, virtuosity gets in the way of how others relate to your music. You want them to connect emotionally to it, not just go "Oh wow - can he play".

Anyway, I spent weeks learning to play Tarkus on the piano when I was 18. I was totally absorbed and awestruck by Keith for years. That he flashed and burned more noticeably than others takes nothing away from the brilliance of his unique approach to playing and his harmonic language. I only wish he had shown a little more restraint and crammed a little less of his cranial matter into his fingers. Sometimes, a band needs another member who can step back and play John Lennon alongside Liberace. Showmen by themselves can't always be relied upon to make artistic decisions regarding taste, etc.  

But I never like to see people trash anyone who went his own way rather than played it safe an imitated others. Keith just did what felt right to him. Whether ELP was "pure prog" or not is not even worthy of contemplating.  And ELP's legacy as a prog band doesn't matter to me as much as Keith's legacy as a keyboardist. Non keyboardists may shrug today when they listen to ELP. But I know young keyboardists really dig him still and want to learn how to play Tarkus, etc like I did. He is and always will be a legend to us. The problem is though that the most imitated bands set the standard by which young ears judge other music today. So that if it doesn't sound like King Crimson, Genesis or Pink Floyd, it sounds "funny" to them. Truth be told though - the ELP sound is less imitated yes - in part, due to poor artistic decisions they made at times, but also - it is less imitated because its so friggin' difficult! I do hear Keith imitators playing prog that otherwise sounds very little like ELP. Thats kind of what happens now, and while it sounds tame and watered down by comparison, it also is devoid of the excess and the filler songs that ELP detractors always bring up whenever they are comparing prog bands. I dunno - but Keith should have started a school where he taught others how he does it. And then maybe they could carry on that tradition, build on it and refine it. It beats us guys still trying to pic it all out note for note from listening (yeah, I know, you can buy Tarkus/ELP song books today, but anyway)...

aldri7


 
I would make a couple of points regarding the paragraph I have highlighted.
 
Firstly if Keith Emerson had shown 'restraint' then presumably the music would have been very different? I think fans love the ELP sections where they cut loose. For instance the Bab Yaga section on the Pictures from Lyceum is just one of the most wonderous things I ever heard. ELP in full throttle mood were awe inspiring at that time. Sorry but I don't want restraint!
 
Also I believe Greg Lake was the rudder in the band and helped make steer the band on making artistic decisions. He put his stamp on much of ELP's music although people for some reason will believe that he was a 'bit part' player in the band. ELP made music that was heavily weighted towards symphonic classical and keyboards orientated music because that was different and unique and put then apart from others. I don't see a problem. In general I think this kind of music fairs badly on the PA charts. Where are Rick Wakeman, Par Lindh, Glass Hammer, Greenslade and Refugee in the top 100. Answer - nowhere! ELP debut is probably the only keyboard based album in the top 100 so I believe this type of music represents a niche market and that the lack of ELP albums in the top 100 is not down to Keith Emerson making poor artistic choices at all.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2013 at 23:46
Originally posted by moodyxadi moodyxadi wrote:

One thing is dislike and criticize a musician an/or his works. Another - completely different - is trying to rewrite history based in his own preferences. ELP is more important and influent historically than any prog band post-80. That's a fact. Based on this fact, it's more than logical to question why their work is misrepresented in the list.

Well that's not a rule, Hawkwind are conidered the fathers of Space Rock, I love Space Rock, but I can't listen more than a minute of them without wanting to crash my stereo against the wall

Gentle Giant, VDGG and King Crimson are considered genius, i can´'t stand most of their albums

ELP had two great albums, 2 good ones and some that should never been released, they had a fight with their label and in vengeance gave us "Love Beach" (In a tgime when there was no Internet to know if this was good or not), honestly I felt cheated, they didn't thought in their fans, they took revenge on the label and we paid the bill.

Plus, Emerson is a genius, but also an expert in butchering the classics with unnecessary sounds, like rubbing a mic in his arse during Pictures

Originally posted by moodyxadi moodyxadi wrote:

It's laughable when someone says that old farts feel enraged when music from the 80s onwards seems to outshine the 70's prog works. The 70's were the prog era (if ever was one); those bands were the most influential and create the standards for anything prog-related to be measured.  Of course, music never stops but talking about prog rock (a genre that despite its creative flights in the 70s are more characterised by stagnation and more-of-the-sameness when you judge the sound of the "new" bands) is, after all, talking about the music of an era long finished. 

I am an old fart (was born in 1964), and i wish more bands were able to outshine the 70's, that would mean that Prog is getting better.

But the truth is that there are good and bad bands in the 60's, 70's, 80's,. 90's, 00's and 10's

Originally posted by moodyxadi moodyxadi wrote:

Only when you take into consideration the age-factor of this site's audience (what was shown in other topics) you can understand why you have so lame reviews of the real warriors side by side with tears of joy for their pale reflections. It's just the young folks feeling more related to their own times and their natural absence of perspective and balance given by getting old -  nothing new under the sun.  

I honestly rate high, what I like and consider great, no matter when was it released, and I'm sure 99% of the collaborators also.
            
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Points: 115 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2013 at 18:09
How one feels about ELP can really depends on whether you are a keyboardist first and prog fan second, or perhaps the other way around. I'm a keyboardist first and so I was always a KeithEmerson/ ELP fan. 

But musically, I feel ELP was at times as much a victim of Keith's playing as it was defined by it. Unfortunately, he was more of a showman than an intellectual. Sometimes, virtuosity gets in the way of how others relate to your music. You want them to connect emotionally to it, not just go "Oh wow - can he play".

Anyway, I spent weeks learning to play Tarkus on the piano when I was 18. I was totally absorbed and awestruck by Keith for years. That he flashed and burned more noticeably than others takes nothing away from the brilliance of his unique approach to playing and his harmonic language. I only wish he had shown a little more restraint and crammed a little less of his cranial matter into his fingers. Sometimes, a band needs another member who can step back and play John Lennon alongside Liberace. Showmen by themselves can't always be relied upon to make artistic decisions regarding taste, etc.  

But I never like to see people trash anyone who went his own way rather than played it safe an imitated others. Keith just did what felt right to him. Whether ELP was "pure prog" or not is not even worthy of contemplating.  And ELP's legacy as a prog band doesn't matter to me as much as Keith's legacy as a keyboardist. Non keyboardists may shrug today when they listen to ELP. But I know young keyboardists really dig him still and want to learn how to play Tarkus, etc like I did. He is and always will be a legend to us. The problem is though that the most imitated bands set the standard by which young ears judge other music today. So that if it doesn't sound like King Crimson, Genesis or Pink Floyd, it sounds "funny" to them. Truth be told though - the ELP sound is less imitated yes - in part, due to poor artistic decisions they made at times, but also - it is less imitated because its so friggin' difficult! I do hear Keith imitators playing prog that otherwise sounds very little like ELP. Thats kind of what happens now, and while it sounds tame and watered down by comparison, it also is devoid of the excess and the filler songs that ELP detractors always bring up whenever they are comparing prog bands. I dunno - but Keith should have started a school where he taught others how he does it. And then maybe they could carry on that tradition, build on it and refine it. It beats us guys still trying to pic it all out note for note from listening (yeah, I know, you can buy Tarkus/ELP song books today, but anyway)...

aldri7




Edited by aldri7 - January 23 2013 at 22:21
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Points: 3136 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2013 at 14:22
What does Love Beach sound like? - the fecking cover frightened me off from six feet away......Definately the worst cover ever by a major prog band.....Thumbs Up
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Points: 1281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 13:41
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

It's a well known fact that prog fans have terrible taste in music. Wink


It could be worse. I could be a Lou Reed fan.
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Points: 2447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 07:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

ELP always seemed to be better at other peoples' material than their own.
Masterpieces like "Tarkus" and "Karn Evil 9" belie that statement.
 
Although it was originally recorded by The Nice, ELP sometimes performed Emerson's atrocious cover of "Blue Rondo A La Turk".  And "Fanfare For The Common Man" as played by ELP has always been a bore.
Maybe I'm just thinking of The Barbarian (Allegro Barbaro), Knife Edge (Sinfonietta), Pictures At An Exhibition, Nut Rocker, Hoedown, Jerusalem, Toccata, The Enemy God Dances with the Black Spirits, Peter Gunn, Romeo and Juliet, ... (if we're dragging The Nice into this then America was also performed live by ELP)... and comapring those will all the ELP songs that are not Tarkus and Karn Evil.


Very good point Dean.  Personally, I prefer their own compositions (though, as you point out, some of those "borrow" heavily from other composers)  to the "covers".
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Points: 2447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 07:58
Originally posted by themightymasturbator themightymasturbator wrote:

^You seem to be implying old people have more musical perspective and balance than younger people. I hope you are not seriously suggesting that.


Why shouldn't he suggest that?  It's probably not true for ALL older people (or all younger people, for that matter), but just the fact of having more time to listen, experiencing more era's of music, and having life experience to inform your tastes does, in fact, make a difference.  When one is young, one tends to discount such things (I certainly did).  That said, there are always exceptions to prove the rule he is suggesting.  The biggest problem with young people, is they take others opinions about them too seriously Wink  Now..........you kids get off my lawn!!!!  Big smile
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 06:49
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ELP were never a pure prog band like Yes ,Genesis and King Crimson. They had far too much fun and didn't mind doing throw away stuff like Benny The Bouncer. They divide opinion here and they divide opinion everywhere else. Its not a problem and the absence of their albums from the top of the list is no surprise. I'm sure I've said this many times including on this thread. The other point in that they fell off the creative cliff a lot more spectacularly then their contemporaries. While the likes of Yes ,Genesis had a slower death ELP went for the full on car crash of Love Beach. This always made them look even less intelligent and less in control and has perhaps fuelled the negativity towards them.

Good points.
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