Overrated Genesis? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Winter Wine View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 11:48

NOTHING by Genesis is underrated

My computer's broke

erlenst

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:03

Winter Wine wrote:

erlenst wrote:

Well, you're completely wrong. Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England are all 5 star masterpieces.

However, The Lamb is grotesquely overrated and does not have the wonderful, magical "Genesis-atmosphere" at all. 3 stars.

'Nursery Cryme' is the overrated one!!! But 'The Lamb', that is a work of genius!!

Hehe, well, this is an endless discussion of course

But seriously, I have never understood what is so great about The Lamb. It's a good album with some great songs (In the Cage is fantastic, and I like Counting Out Time quite a bit

), but NOTHING of the material can be compared to the sheer brilliance and magic of songs such as Musical Box, Fountain of Salmacis, The Cinema Show etc.. Seriously, does TLLDOB move you in the same way as any of these songs ? Where's the atmosphere?

OldFatherThames View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:06

Winter Wine wrote:

erlenst wrote:

Well, you're completely wrong. Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England are all 5 star masterpieces.

However, The Lamb is grotesquely overrated and does not have the wonderful, magical "Genesis-atmosphere" at all. 3 stars.

'Nursery Cryme' is the overrated one!!! But 'The Lamb', that is a work of genius!!

Absolutely false ! Many consider it not better than Trespass...I really can't see how this album can be overrated. And it's often my favorite one of Genesis...depend of the day but this one is a good candidate with foxtrot to be the my favorite album of all time.

And yes the lamb is a work of genius, but musicallynot as good as Genesis can be in my opinion.

The Lost Chord View Drop Down

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Joined: June 23 2005
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Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:07

Yes, the Lamia is a masterpiece, and the concept of the album adds alot to it. I love every song cept waiting room, i think waiting room is kind of useless...but damn, carpet crawlers, counting out time, back in NYC, lamia, in the rapids, SO MANY GOOD ONES!

Frasse

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:18

The Lamb is long, but not "overrated". Genesis is the best band in my brain, ever.

...To put it simple.

moonlitbay View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 13:31

Soulman wrote:

moonlitbay wrote:

I may disturbe some souls here, but I have a little theory that I ask you to think of....

Is it too popular to give Genesis (Gabriel-era) 5 points. Do they get it because of the name or because of the music??

My point is that some may think "well well, everybody likes it so why don't I join them and give them 5 stars myself, that'll make them happy..."

I like Genesis myself, but in my opinion it's only "Lamb.." that beserves 5 stars.

Comments??

You may disturb SOME souls, but seriously dude, this form of music is so so far off from what is "accepted" by the majority of society that I doubt anyone who's apart of this community would really care what anyone would think. That's the reason why we're here. Not because everyone else is doing it, but because we enjoy ourselves individually.

Unless you haven't noticed, this music form we call prog is a very self-indulgent music form. People listen to it because it brings fresh air to their existence, and it's satisfying to them.

And I don't know what country you live in, but the majority people I know who listen to prog have their own opinions, ESPECIALLY on prog, and even if it isn't the most developed and inept opinion, it is THEIR OPINION..

...And to bring this all on Genesis, for shame dude. I'm not sure what made you bring this on Genesis. Like Yes or ELP they are humble bands. It's not like they or their devoted crowd of fans run some kind of tyrannical cult in which they have to have only solid opinion on that bands music.

Quote of myself....a theory...

A reunion.......it will never happen in my lifetime!!

Winter Wine View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 13:42

erlenst wrote:

Winter Wine wrote:

erlenst wrote:

Well, you're completely wrong. Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England are all 5 star masterpieces.

However, The Lamb is grotesquely overrated and does not have the wonderful, magical "Genesis-atmosphere" at all. 3 stars.

'Nursery Cryme' is the overrated one!!! But 'The Lamb', that is a work of genius!!

Hehe, well, this is an endless discussion of course

But seriously, I have never understood what is so great about The Lamb. It's a good album with some great songs (In the Cage is fantastic, and I like Counting Out Time quite a bit

Ya know I have to say that it took me a while to get into it, I used to think it was too dark and sort of claustrophobic. I dunno, one day I put it on and I knew almost every word Gabriel was singing, it was amazing, I was so into it. It really can be moving and I think it is more subtle in a way, but songs like 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway', 'Fly on a Windshield' (Oh the beauty of it), 'In the Cage', 'Back in Nyc', 'Carpet Crawlers', 'Counting out Time', 'Chamber of 32 doors', 'Lilywhite Lilith', 'Anyway', 'The Colony of Slippermen', 'It.' are all so fantastic, I really hope you can see why I love the album so much one day, or FEEL it rather.

I think it's their most ambitious work too.

Edited by Winter Wine

My computer's broke

Lofcaudio

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 14:03

I actually agree with the original post 100%. I love The Lamb, but for the life of me cannot understand why so many people go nuts about Foxtrot and Selling England. For example, many people declare that Supper's Ready is the greatest song ever and I think it is merely average. The Battle of Epping Forest is painful for me to listen to as is More Fool Me. Everyone has different tastes and it sometimes is befuddling for some of us and that's okay! I think there are certainly groups here that get the benefit of "nostalgic" points (Genesis, Yes, ELP and King Crimson immediately come to mind) but that's part of why we like the music that we like.

moonlitbay View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 14:08

Lofcaudio wrote:

I actually agree with the original post 100%. I love The Lamb, but for the life of me cannot understand why so many people go nuts about Foxtrot and Selling England. For example, many people declare that Supper's Ready is the greatest song ever and I think it is merely average. The Battle of Epping Forest is painful for me to listen to as is More Fool Me. Everyone has different tastes and it sometimes is befuddling for some of us and that's okay! I think there are certainly groups here that get the benefit of "nostalgic" points (Genesis, Yes, ELP and King Crimson immediately come to mind) but that's part of why we like the music that we like.

AAAhhhh....nice!

A reunion.......it will never happen in my lifetime!!

GPFR

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 14:20

Selling England, The Lamb, and A trick were all amazing and deserve 5 stars! Each album showed some sort of evolution to the genesis sound. Not only that, but stories to the musi were excellent. But the music was beautiful. I mean, beautiful! You could know nothing about music and love it, or know everything there is to know and love it. But c'mon, it's amazing.

www.myspace.com/hail_peter

richardh

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 14:44

pero wrote:

You think that Collins era was more innovative then Gabriel and Hackett era.

I didn't mention Hackett as he straddled both eras but apart from Foxtrot I don't think Genesis were that innovative.Selling England ByThe Pound is a consolidation of ideas rather than any pushing forward while Lamb has too many weird moments for my liking although is very good at odd moments.The 2 albums that followed (ATOTT and WAW) were more interesting to me as they broadened their sound out and seem to incorporate a lot more ideas while retaining a solid approach.ATTWT I also like although admittedly liek SEBTP that is really a consolidation of ideas rather than featuring any progression but they followed that with Duke which shows another jump forward (before the decline!).I also think the live album Seconds Out beats the crap out of Genesis Live!

Winter Wine View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 15:24

richardh wrote:

pero wrote:

You think that Collins era was more innovative then Gabriel and Hackett era.

So basically you feel that ATOTT and W&W are more straight forward records and that's why you like them right? Well I can understand that, but I still prefer 'Foxtrot, Selling England and The Lamb', though I have to say it! They may be a slight bit better than Nursery Cryme, I still rate it ****

Edited by Winter Wine

My computer's broke

The Miracle View Drop Down

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 15:42

Everything Trespass-SEBT deserve 5*, the rest of Hackett era-4(except FGTR)

Niothing is overrated/underrated

last.fm

Rosescar

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 16:01

I used to think Genesis was overrated, now I love them.

My music!

"THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp

Zitro

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 16:54

From Genesis to Revelation **

tresspass ***1/2

Nursery Cryme ****

foxtrot ****1/2

Selling England by the Pound *****

Lamb Lies Down ****1/2

trick of a Tail ****

Wind & Wuthering ***

And Then there were three ***

Duke **

Acabab **

Genesis **

Invisible touch *1/2

We Can't Dance *1/2

Calling All Stations

Genesis is indeed overrated ... their 80s and 90s output that is!

bertburt

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 16:59

I do have a question regarding ratings that ties into this thread regarding Genesis.

I find the compositions on Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot to be absolutely great. Superb songwriting. However the production flaws are something that I've never been able to ignore. I find Nursery Cryme to be very muddy-sounding, especially the drum mix. And even though I think Supper's Ready is a phenomenally-written song, the studio version sounds very cold and stiff (IMHO). For that reason, I far prefer listening to the Seconds Out or the Archive versions much more.

Now it has been argued that it is this production that contributed to the Genesis 'sound', and that's fair. I just find it hard to handle.

Anyway, my question was: How much should an album's production factor into a rating? Does rating an album take into account primarily the written quality of the songs and how they're performed, or the end-use, which of course is the listening pleasure? I assume the latter. So in my case, I love the songs on Nursery Cryme (nearly 5 stars for me), but the sound quality is quite distracting to the point that I don't enjoy listening it very much. So as far as Nursery Cryme's 'end-use' for me, it would rate about 2 stars overall.

I guess it seems unfortunate that a well-written and well-executed album loses points due to its ultimate 'presentation'.

IMHO, as always

Guests

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 17:00

trespass-4 stars(pretty cool)

nursery-3 stars(pretty medicore)

foxtrot-5 stars(great)

selling england-4 stars(cool but a bit weird)

lamb-4 stars(only because there are too many songs which thins the album out and gabriels vocals start to sound horrible)

MarxNutz

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 17:05

Having started with Genesis on a live performance on "The Midnight Special", I was in a way spoiled... It took me two years to find anything by them in the record shops, so you know I had to have been obsessing about this odd band from England. So, I have a special place in my heart for Foxtrot... Especially after hearing 'Supper's Ready'. I have to say SR is my favorite track of all time! It had everything one could want from a band like Genesis, and delivers it in such a way that blows the young stoner mind. I didn't have a clue that the production values were substandard until I heard the Phil version on Seconds Out... He actually did the song justice, IMO.
SEBTP almost did the same for me as Foxtrot... From the first a cappella bars to the fading coda the album swept me away! I even forgave them for 'More Fool Me', because it seemed an appropriate bridge to 'After the Fall'... But the biggest pleasant surprise to me was 'The Battle of Epping Forest'. The center of the song was a sort of free form jazz-fusion thing to me, a pg story-telling in the middle of the song (as opposed to the 'normal' interlude story) All in all, I think the album was well-balanced in their offbeat way, and certainly worthy of 4 1/2 stars (again IMO)
Lamb was a strange duck to me... It didn't seem to sound anything like the pg era Genesis I came to know and love, but after a few listens I realized that yes indeed this was still my Genesis, just on some post-modern joyride instead of telling the tales of yore. Only much later did I learn of the writing arrangements of this album, which made me understand the Lamb experience better. With each listen I appreciate Lamb more, and I would say because of the scope of the story and the intricacies of the music and lyrics I would give Lamb at least 4 stars.
Genesis Live did suffer from serious lack of sound engineering, and the wife just announced that we have to get going to go visit friends, so I'll just say IMO pg era Genesis is my FAVORITE and deserves 5 stars! More later... MarxNutz

"Live long and fester!"

Ounamahl

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 17:05

haha I dunno what is this hate against Collins' Genesis

Or am I just listening to bad music? Anyway Duke is a 5 star album, We Can't Dance 4½
and Genesis 4... Hmm anyway Duke is an AWESOME album.

plaah Abacab 3
Invisible touch 2½, too "experimental", dunno, weird it is.
And then there were three is almost a four star album, really great songs indeed!
Calling All Stations is ok :D little weird being a genesis album but nobody cares anyway

This is an electrified fairytale

anael

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Posted: February 03 2006 at 17:09

GENESIS IS OVERRATED, OF COURSE.