Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Is Prog becoming Metal?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedIs Prog becoming Metal?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 891011>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:10
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ that's nice to know Iván - thanks for pointing me towards that website. Well, I guess that I have to thank the owners for not implementing my genres for nearly a year now - had they done that, PA might have been the first.OuchWink


That's quite a good website, which I use when I have to research the bands on the Symphonic list. Their genre subdivisions are very accurate, and they have an impressive database of bands and musicians (many of them, I have to say, have a rather vague association with prog, metal or otherwise). However, I find ProgArchives much better in many other respects - first of all, the discographies and reviews are the best I've seen around the web.
 
Right Raffaella I agree with you Prog Archives is better for many reasons
 

1.- PROGGNOSIS IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: They consider Progressive Rock, Prog Metal and Fusion as separete and indidual genres. They call themselves the Progressive Rock and Fusion Website, as if Fusion  was some different thing. Just look at this:

 
GENRE: Progressive Rock  (Prog)
Overall Description:   Based on the complex structures.

SUB-GENRES

Click to view sub-genre description, styles & Artist listing

  • AOR

  • Art Rock

  • Canterbury & Influences

  • Celtic & Folk

  • Contemporay Psych

  • Early Progressive

  • Electronic

  • Gentle Giant & Influenced

  • Goth

  • Guitar Virtuoso

  • Jazz Rock

  • King Crimson & Influenced

  • Kraut Rock

  • Mathrock

  • Neo-Prog

  • Pomp

  • Pop

  • Post-Pop/Rock

  • Prog-Fusion

  • RIO

  • Singer-Songwriter

  • Space Rock

  • Sub-Genre Not Assigned

  • Symphonic

  • World Prog

  • Zappa & Influenced

  • Zeuhl

    • SUB-GENRE: AOR
    Overall Description: Description Needed
     
    STYLES
    (Click to view Artist List & Links)    		 STYLE DESCRIPTION
    General All bands classified in this genre/subgenre are not broken down further into styles
     Progressive Rock has it's own sub-genres which BTW are not too exact like Zappa & influenced, AOR,  POMP, Singer somngwritter (???), King Crimson & Influenced, Guitar Virtuoso (????) and PROG FUSION  
     
    But at the same time they consider FUSION another completely different entity with it's own sub-genres:
     
    GENRE: Fusion
    Overall Description:   Based on the complex structures.

    SUB-GENRES

    Click to view sub-genre description, styles & Artist listing

  • Avant

  • Guitar/Shred

  • Heavy

  • Improvisational/Jazz/rock

  • Indo-fusion

  • Jazz-Fusion

  • Kozmigroov

  • Sub-Genre Not Assigned

  • Technical/Progressive

  • World/New Age/Misc

    • SUB-GENRE: Avant
    Overall Description: Description Needed
     
    STYLES
    (Click to view Artist List & Links)    		 STYLE DESCRIPTION
    Experimental
    Free-form
     
    They have arround 50 sub-genres on their site!!!!!!!
     
    Is that what we want? Must every Sub-genre has it's own sub-genres? If Prg Metal has them why not Fusion, Symphonic, Neo Prog, etc?
     
    This is crazy, Prog Archives is much more accurate IMO.
     
    2.- If you remember we have discussed the chance to split Symphonic, but at the end and despite we have by far the largest number of bands, to keep Symphonic as one lonely entit7y, as a fact we're planning to add Italian Symphonic.
     
    3.- I believe things are already too complex, why create sub genres, sub-sub-genres and then probably if one band gets too sinfluential Sub-Sub-Sub- Genres-
     
    But it's only my point of view each team is entitled to do their own job.
     
    Iván
                
    Back to Top
    Raff View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: July 29 2005
    Location: None
    Status: Offline
    Points: 24439     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:14
    Yes, Ivan, you're quite right on that point... In fact, their endless subdivisions often give me a headache. But it's very useful when one has to do research on obscure Paraguayan bands or such and has no other way to learn something about them.
    Back to Top
    VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: July 04 2005
    Location: Malaria
    Status: Offline
    Points: 89372     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:19
    I quite agree Iván (that makes a change!).

    I think I'd like to see a cross-genre style myself.  What I mean by this, is that prog bands will be under more than one genre, but will be primarily under one main genre.

    For instance, a Symphonic Prog band will primarily be a Symphonic Prog band, but if they also incorporate other genres (as well as styles - i.e. dark, light, gothic), then they will be attached to as many of these sub-genres as apply.

    So a band could look like this:

    Symphonic Band

    Genre: symphonic prog
    Sub-genres: fusion, art rock
    Styles: dark, gothic, instrumental
    Back to Top
    MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: April 22 2005
    Location: Sweden
    Status: Offline
    Points: 21817     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:20
    ^ Whether a genre (or sub genre) makes sense or not is IMHO determined by its list of bands. If you list all prog metal bands and compare them to each other, then you'll find out that there are HUGE differences between many of them. In that case it can make sense to sub-divide the genre. Of course there are also reasons against further division ... if there simply aren't enough bands and further sub genres would of only a handful of bands, just as an example.

    In the case of Prog Metal there are currently approx. 300 bands in the archives and cleared for addition.  And there is a way to split them into 4 or 5 nearly equally sized groups (4 equally sized or 5 with 2 bigger ones and 3 smaller ones). Each of these sub genres would be much more consistent - the differences between bands would be considerably smaller.

    This is not nearly as extreme a move as you describe it, using terms like "sub sub sub genre":

    - Power
    - Neo/Symphonic
    - Technical/Jazz
    - Post/Avant
    - Extreme

    How does that not make sense?
    Release Polls

    Listened to:
    Back to Top
    micky View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: October 02 2005
    Location: .
    Status: Offline
    Points: 46843     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:22
    Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

    I quite agree Iván (that makes a change!).

    I think I'd like to see a cross-genre style myself.  What I mean by this, is that prog bands will be under more than one genre, but will be primarily under one main genre.

    For instance, a Symphonic Prog band will primarily be a Symphonic Prog band, but if they also incorporate other genres (as well as styles - i.e. dark, light, gothic), then they will be attached to as many of these sub-genres as apply.

    So a band could look like this:

    Symphonic Band

    Genre: symphonic prog
    Sub-genres: fusion, art rock
    Styles: dark, gothic, instrumental



    I like that idea...
    The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
    Back to Top
    micky View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: October 02 2005
    Location: .
    Status: Offline
    Points: 46843     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:26
    Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

    2.- If you remember we have discussed the chance to split Symphonic, but at the end and despite we have by far the largest number of bands, to keep Symphonic as one lonely entit7y, as a fact we're planning to add Italian Symphonic.
     



    hmmm..... remind me to talk to you about that later.... I think you know I'm not really on board about that.... that may have been decided upon while I was away... but I want to be heard out on this one...
    The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
    Back to Top
    VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: July 04 2005
    Location: Malaria
    Status: Offline
    Points: 89372     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:27
    Thanks Micky.  It could still cause problems (what doesn't, eh?), but it may also stop a lot of bickering too.  The only issues are what main genre does a band come under.  The sub-genres are relatively easy to work out (if one knows the band well enough).

    I also quite like the idea of style.  Style is not related to genre.  This is where problems seem to occur.  It's a misconception that gothic is a sub-genre (although I guess it could be, but that's up for discussion here!).

    It also helps those unfamiliar with a band decide whether they'd like them or not.  Obviously they may still sound nothing like the sub-genres/styles say they should do, especially with a unique sounding band, such as VdGG.

    But I am glad you think it's a good idea.  Maybe I should make my own site, rivalling PA and Mike's!


    Edited by Geck0 - July 04 2006 at 13:30
    Back to Top
    Raff View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: July 29 2005
    Location: None
    Status: Offline
    Points: 24439     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:34
    Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

    Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

    2.- If you remember we have discussed the chance to split Symphonic, but at the end and despite we have by far the largest number of bands, to keep Symphonic as one lonely entit7y, as a fact we're planning to add Italian Symphonic.
     



    hmmm..... remind me to talk to you about that later.... I think you know I'm not really on board about that.... that may have been decided upon while I was away... but I want to be heard out on this one...


    We should probably get together and try to come to a unanimous decision. One thing is for sure: in that list there are bands who are not Symphonic, as in the Symph main list.
    Back to Top
    Peter View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: January 31 2004
    Location: Canada
    Status: Offline
    Points: 9669     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:34
    Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

    Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

     

     
     
    All subjective value judgements aside, I think a band like Tool is light years away from the sound -- and sensibilities -- of classic Genesis, Yes, ELP, etc. I would readily recommend a Bowie disc to a prog fan of my generation, but not a Tool or Dream Theater one. (Those I would recommend to a metal fan; especially a younger one used to today's often ultra-fast, often ultra-dark metal.)

    Here it is again - Prog Rock eq. Old, seasoned persons ... Prog Metal eq. Young, ill-mannered boys. It's not true, not at all.

     
    I think there is no doubt that prog metal (and its generally much younger fans there he goes again
    Sigh.
     
    Mike, I'm a little embarrassed to feel that I have to point this out, but:
     
     I work with English for a living, and I have six years of high quality university education (I graduated U of Toronto with High Distinction) with an English (Specialist) degree, and an (English) teaching degree, so I am generally very careful in my wording.Stern Smile (I can't help it!Embarrassed)
     
    I said (or implied) nothing about "seasoned persons" or "ill-mannered boys." Those are your words -- there are ill-mannered people (boys, and otherwise) all over this forum, and they are represented in the fan bases of all of the genres here.
     
    Can you really not agree that the average (and "generally" here means "on average" or "in the majority of cases") PM fan is much younger (by 20 years or more) than the average (long-term)classic prog fan? Confused Just look around the forum!
     
    Please, don't make me out to be insulting groups of people here when I am being careful NOT to be insulting.Smile
     
     
    BTW, thanks for the rest of your post, and I understand (and even somewhat applaud) your passion for PM, but I am NOT trying to fight with you, or any other metal fan.  (If I actually wanted to insult people, so they'd know they had been insulted, I would try to do so in a clear, cruel and creative manner.)Wink
     
     
     
    Teaflax, you might want to check out the "Happy Birthday America" thread for some of my thoughts on the current (unsavoury) "evolution" of the word "gay." (There is really nothing you or I or anyone can do to resist it.)
     
    PS:  If we want to go "all dictionary" about it, "retard" means "to delay or hamper the progress of" (eg, "flame retardant"), so "retarded" merely means "hindered"). "Mentally retarded," on the other hand....Ermm
     
    (But usage finally determines a word's meaning -- not the original or primary dictionary definition.)Smile
     
    I am enjoying your posts -- "R" word and all!Wink


    Edited by Peter Rideout - July 04 2006 at 13:36
    "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.
    Back to Top
    MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: April 22 2005
    Location: Sweden
    Status: Offline
    Points: 21817     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:40
    My "there he goes again" wasn't meant to indicate that you're insulting me. But there are various polls which show that there is no significant difference in the age average of those who favor Prog Rock and those who favor Prog Metal. I just can't understand why you would claim otherwise ... a quick way to check the current situation would be to watch MTV and find out which is the dominant genre. Last time I checked it was Black-HipHop/Rap/R&B/Soul.
    Release Polls

    Listened to:
    Back to Top
    Forgotten Son View Drop Down
    Forum Senior Member
    Forum Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: March 13 2005
    Location: United Kingdom
    Status: Offline
    Points: 1356     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 13:51
    Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

    Aaron, don't be a ****ing retard. Gay doesn't have two meanings. It has one, which is homosexual. People like you just feel like it's fine ot call things gay because so many other people call things gay, or, as you say, lame. Why do you think people call things gay? Because gay people aren't accepted in the same way. The same reason people say "that's so jewish". Jews are seperated from the norm just like gay people are, and gays/jews got a bad name. Thus calling things lame turned into calling them jewish or gay. So therefore people think it's ok to say that now gay and jewish have two meanings. They have ONE meaning, and people like you are the people who think it's ok to use them in every day speech like they have two. So stop being an asshole and think about what you're saying. If you love gay people don't go around using them as a synonym for lame. That's just stupid.

    I really hate when people do that.


    From the letters page of Radio Times:

    Originally posted by Lee Green Lee Green wrote:

    Steven Morris (Letters, 17 June) stated that the word "gay" as used by Chris Moyles implied an insult, meaning that homosexuals are inherently bad or weak. May I make it clear that the use of the word "gay" to mean stupid or useless has been common among my age range for four or five years, and being gay myself I find it acceptable, since nearly all the people I know who use the erm don't relate it to homosexuals in any way.
    I'd say that nearly all listeners to Radio 1 would understand why the word was used in this context.


    Plenty of words have a number of meanings. You've cotradicted your own argument from the off by suggesting "gay" isn't one of them. It used to mean "happy" or "jolly" if I'm very much not mistaken. Language evolves and this is the path the word has taken. I have homosexual friends who also have no objection to me using the word "gay" in such a way, because they understand it's current meaning in certain situations.


    On Prog-Metal I think a clear distinction needs to be made between those bands that are Metal and add Prog influences to their music and those bands that are Prog and add Metal influences to their music.


    Edited by Forgotten Son - July 04 2006 at 13:55
    Back to Top
    Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator

    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: April 27 2004
    Location: Peru
    Status: Offline
    Points: 19557     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:04
    Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

    Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

    I quite agree Iván (that makes a change!).

    I think I'd like to see a cross-genre style myself.  What I mean by this, is that prog bands will be under more than one genre, but will be primarily under one main genre.

    For instance, a Symphonic Prog band will primarily be a Symphonic Prog band, but if they also incorporate other genres (as well as styles - i.e. dark, light, gothic), then they will be attached to as many of these sub-genres as apply.

    So a band could look like this:

    Symphonic Band

    Genre: symphonic prog
    Sub-genres: fusion, art rock
    Styles: dark, gothic, instrumental



    I like that idea...
     
    I think you guys don't get my point, lets go step by step:
     
    1. Prog Archives and every Prog site except Proggnosis:
      1. One genre called Progressive Rock.
      2. Prog Metal, Symphonic, Fusion, Neo Prog etc ALL EQUALLY IMPORTANT SUB GENRES
      3. Thre name of our sites are:
        1. Prog Archives: The Ultimnate PROG ROCK RESOURCE
        2. GEPR: Gilbrartar Enciclopedia of PROGRSSIVE ROCK
        3. Progressor: The Uzbekistan PROGRESSIVE ROCK Pages
        4. Progressive Ears: 21st Century PROGRESSIVE ROCK
        5. PROGRESSIVE ROCK WEB RING
      4. All this sites mention one and onlyone genre....PROGRESSIVE ROCK
    2. Proggnosis only:
      1. Three genres:
        1. Progressive Rock
        2. Fusion
        3. Prog Metal
      2. The three are different genres, each one with it's own sub-genres.
      3. Their name is: Proggnosis: Progressive Rock & Fusion

    That's my point, I believe Progressive Rock is ONE AND ONLY GENRE. Prog Metal and Fusion as just sub-genres as each and every one else, all in the same level.

    We can add IN THE BIOS, if the band has different influences, moods and styles, we even have countless reviews to do that, but I believe Proggnosis goes further splitting Progressive Rock in three different and independant GENRES.
     
    If I have to choose I go with Mike's  option of Prog Metal even when I don't totally agree, but Prog Metal was, is and will be just another sub-genre of Prog Rock as Fusion or Symphonic.
     
    Iván
     
    PS: Micky when our team was formed by Salmacis, Cesar Inca you and myself we talked about Symphonic being one genre by style and not by nation or region, there was even a thread about it and most opinions were that if there is Italian Symphonic why not Dutch, USA, Spanish, Swedish, etc Symphonic.
     
    I also remember you didn't agree and that's why we started working with the band list of Symphonic alone and left the Italian Symphonic for the end, then Fragile DT joined instead of Salmacis and also agreed.
     
    I asked Trotsky for an Italian member and we (Trotski and I) decided to choose Raffaella (Ghost Rider) not only  because she had more knowledge on Italian Symphonic in case we would have to add those bands (as she accurately said, there are some Non Symphonic bands in Italian Symphonic), but also because she had shown great knowledge and will to work, something she had proved.
     
    But you know that I never decided anything alone and we will have a new discussion inside the team about adding Italian Symphonic as we always do in everything.


    Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 04 2006 at 14:41
                
    Back to Top
    Peter View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: January 31 2004
    Location: Canada
    Status: Offline
    Points: 9669     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:14
    Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

    My "there he goes again" wasn't meant to indicate that you're insulting me. But there are various polls which show that there is no significant difference in the age average of those who favor Prog Rock and those who favor Prog Metal. I just can't understand why you would claim otherwise ... a quick way to check the current situation would be to watch MTV and find out which is the dominant genre. Last time I checked it was Black-HipHop/Rap/R&B/Soul.
    Mike, re the various genres' average fan ages here (and no matter what a little poll might seem to indicate) I find it VERY hard to believe that the dedicated PM fans are not generally much younger than say, the committed ELP or Gentle Giant fans tend to be.
     
    I know they overlap, and that PM fans can and do become classic prog fans (and, perhaps to a lesser extent, vice-versa), but I've been here from the very beginning, and the pronounced infux of younger members that started a year or so ago came via PM, not classic prog. Just look at their sig pics, profiles and avatars -- the devoted PM fans tend to be much younger than my 45 (soon to be 46) years.
     
    There is no value judgement -- implied or overt -- there. I am merely referring to what, to me, is quite obvious: as the average age here declined, the popularity and visibility of metal vs. classic prog greatly increased.
     
     
     
    English skills and average post lengths declined too (as post counts skyrocketed) -- but that's another matter....Wink


    Edited by Peter Rideout - July 04 2006 at 14:16
    "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
    He chortled in his joy.
    Back to Top
    VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: July 04 2005
    Location: Malaria
    Status: Offline
    Points: 89372     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:16
    Prog Metal is a sub-genre of Metal.  Metal is a partner to Rock (both are related and even cross over).  Progressive Rock is a sub-genre of Rock.

    As we're talking about progressive music here and we avoid the main genres of metal and rock, then progressive metal deserves a place here too, because most metal also involves elements of rock.

    Without rock, metal wouldn't exist, so of course it has a right to be here.

    I fully understood your post Iván and all I was doing was offering an alternative.
    Back to Top
    Trickster F. View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: February 10 2006
    Location: Belize
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5308     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:21
    Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

    Prog Metal is a sub-genre of Metal.  Metal is a partner to Rock (both are related and even cross over).  Progressive Rock is a sub-genre of Rock.

    As we're talking about progressive music here and we avoid the main genres of metal and rock, then progressive metal deserves a place here too, because most metal also involves elements of rock.

    Without rock, metal wouldn't exist, so of course it has a right to be here.

    I fully understood your post Iván and all I was doing was offering an alternative.
     
    Or you could say that Progressive Rock and Metal are sub-genres of Rock, and since Prog-Metal is a fusion of both styles, it is also a sub-genre of rock, and it is as Metal as it is Progressive Rock.
     
     -- Ivan
    sig
    Back to Top
    Trickster F. View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: February 10 2006
    Location: Belize
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5308     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:23
    I think we should start a few polls for fans of Prog-Metal and non-fans of Prog-Metal, in which each group specifies their age. Maybe that would prove Peter that both groups are almost equal in amounts.
     
     -- Ivan
    sig
    Back to Top
    VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: July 04 2005
    Location: Malaria
    Status: Offline
    Points: 89372     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:27
    Originally posted by Peter Rideoff sharpened his quill and wrote Peter Rideoff sharpened his quill and wrote wrote:

    Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

    My "there he goes again" wasn't meant to indicate that you're insulting me. But there are various polls which show that there is no significant difference in the age average of those who favor Prog Rock and those who favor Prog Metal. I just can't understand why you would claim otherwise ... a quick way to check the current situation would be to watch MTV and find out which is the dominant genre. Last time I checked it was Black-HipHop/Rap/R&B/Soul.

    Mike    ,     re the various genres' average fan ages here (and no matter what a little poll might seem to indicate) I find it VERY hard to believe that the dedicated PM fans are not generally much younger than say, the committed ELP or Gentle Giant fans tend to be.
     
    I know they overlap, and that PM fans can and do become classic prog fans (and, perhaps to a lesser extent, vice-versa), but I've been here from the very beginning, and the pronounced infux of younger members that started a year or so ago came via PM, not classic prog. Just look at their sig pics, profiles and avatars -- the devoted PM fans tend to be much younger than my 45 (soon to be 46) years.
     
    There is no value judgement -- implied or overt -- there. I am merely referring to what, to me, is quite obvious: as the average age here declined, the popularity and visibility of metal vs. classic prog greatly increased.
     
     
     
    English skills and average post lengths declined too (as post counts skyrocketed) -- but that's another matter....Wink



    Well I fit none of the above criteria, Peter Wink

    I arrived here because I liked proto-prog, blues, rock and jambands and I wanted to further my enjoyment of good music.  I have since discovered that progressive metal does have its high points.  I've never been heavily into metal, but now I like some progressive metal bands and I wish to explore other bands within this genre as well.

    As for my English skills and post lengths... well I try to write as much as I can, to the best of my abilities when I am writing in more official circumstances (the Velvet Room, as you know, doesn't require a high command of language).

    Having said that however, I do have to agree that there appears to be more youngsters listening to progressive metal, than those of the older generation (35+ or there abouts).


    Edited by Geck0 - July 04 2006 at 14:29
    Back to Top
    micky View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator

    Joined: October 02 2005
    Location: .
    Status: Offline
    Points: 46843     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:47
    Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

    Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

    Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

    I quite agree Iván (that makes a change!).

    I think I'd like to see a cross-genre style myself.  What I mean by this, is that prog bands will be under more than one genre, but will be primarily under one main genre.

    For instance, a Symphonic Prog band will primarily be a Symphonic Prog band, but if they also incorporate other genres (as well as styles - i.e. dark, light, gothic), then they will be attached to as many of these sub-genres as apply.

    So a band could look like this:

    Symphonic Band

    Genre: symphonic prog
    Sub-genres: fusion, art rock
    Styles: dark, gothic, instrumental



    I like that idea...
     
    I think you guys don't get my point, lets go step by step:
     
    1. Prog Archives and every Prog site except Proggnosis:
      1. One genre called Progressive Rock.
      2. Prog Metal, Symphonic, Fusion, Neo Prog etc ALL EQUALLY IMPORTANT SUB GENRES
      3. Thre name of our sites are:
        1. Prog Archives: The Ultimnate PROG ROCK RESOURCE
        2. GEPR: Gilbrartar Enciclopedia of PROGRSSIVE ROCK
        3. Progressor: The Uzbekistan PROGRESSIVE ROCK Pages
        4. Progressive Ears: 21st Century PROGRESSIVE ROCK
        5. PROGRESSIVE ROCK WEB RING
      4. All this sites mention one and onlyone genre....PROGRESSIVE ROCK
    2. Proggnosis only:
      1. Three genres:
        1. Progressive Rock
        2. Fusion
        3. Prog Metal
      2. The three are different genres, each one with it's own sub-genres.
      3. Their name is: Proggnosis: Progressive Rock & Fusion

    That's my point, I believe Progressive Rock is ONE AND ONLY GENRE. Prog Metal and Fusion as just sub-genres as each and every one else, all in the same level.

    We can add IN THE BIOS, if the band has different influences, moods and styles, we even have countless reviews to do that, but I believe Proggnosis goes further splitting Progressive Rock in three different and independant GENRES.
     
    If I have to choose I go with Mike's  option of Prog Metal even when I don't totally agree, but Prog Metal was, is and will be just another sub-genre of Prog Rock as Fusion or Symphonic.
     
    Iván
     
    PS: Micky when our team was formed by Salmacis, Cesar Inca you and myself we talked about Symphonic being one genre by style and not by nation or region, there was even a thread about it and most opinions were that if there is Italian Symphonic why not Dutch, USA, Spanish, Swedish, etc Symphonic.
     
    I also remember you didn't agree and that's why we started working with the band list of Symphonic alone and left the Italian Symphonic for the end, then Fragile DT joined instead of Salmacis and also agreed.
     
    I asked Trotsky for an Italian member and we (Trotski and I) decided to choose Raffaella (Ghost Rider) not only  because she had more knowledge on Italian Symphonic in case we would have to add those bands (as she accurately said, there are some Non Symphonic bands in Italian Symphonic), but also because she had shown great knowledge and will to work, something she had proved.
     
    But you know that I never decided anything alone and we will have a new discussion inside the team about adding Italian Symphonic as we always do in everything.


    cool Cool and yeah by the way... Heart
    The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
    Back to Top
    AtLossForWords View Drop Down
    Prog Reviewer
    Prog Reviewer
    Avatar

    Joined: October 11 2005
    Status: Offline
    Points: 6699     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:50
    Well this has turned into quite an interesting conversation.  We're now redefining ways that Progressive Rock can't apply to Progressive Metal.  If Metal is not a subgenre of Rock, why the hell when I go into a CD store there is a section for "Rock" and within this "Rock" section there are "Heavy Metal" albums and "Pop Rock" albums and "Progressive Rock" albums and "Progressive Metal" albums.  Why does a label like Inside-Out Music put file under Progressive Rock or file under Progressive Metal on their albums.  Isn't there no such thing as Progressive Metal because it's a subgenre of metal, not a subgenre of rock?  If Progressive Metal and Progressive Rock are so incompatible, why does a "Progressive Rock" label have "Progressive Metal" bands on it?
     
    As for age, that arguement holds little to no water.  Anyone who thinks that Prog Metal barely has any fans over the age of 35 has never seen all of those geezers hanging around at a Dream Theater or Tool concert.  My dad is fifty years old his favorite bands are ELP, Dream Theater, Steppenwolf, and Opeth.  He can't shut up about f**king Opeth, I think he likes them more than I do.  He doesn't like Damnation as much as he does other albums to, so it's not the Camel influence that he is all gaga over.

    "Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
    Back to Top
    TheProgtologist View Drop Down
    Special Collaborator
    Special Collaborator
    Avatar
    Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

    Joined: May 23 2005
    Location: Baltimore,Md US
    Status: Offline
    Points: 27802     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:56
    WOW

    I take a mini vacation from the forum and have just finished reading every post in this long thread.You all have been busy!!!

    I can't even begin to comment,I don't even know where to start.
        

    Edited by TheProgtologist - July 04 2006 at 14:57


    Back to Top
     Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 891011>

    Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



    This page was generated in 0.193 seconds.
    Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.