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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:51 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
darksinger wrote:
heyitsthatguy wrote:
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems. |
Let me rephrase, if the discussion is actually providing a means to commit the action, then it shouldn't be brought up. For example, someone asking 'hey do you have any files you can send me' or someone saying 'go to this site if you want to download such and such.' Now try telling people to go to a site to get the sinfully delicious ketchup to put on their filet mignon, they can't exactly use the internet as a means to accomplish this.
also, as far as the discussion of sex leading to it, people used to believe that, look at the Puritans, they wouldn't even allow dancing because it could suggest it. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am
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i understand that. i'm just saying that if it were merely the concern of discussion leading to the act, it would be silly because it could mean any discussion leading to any act. condoning means different than discussion. discussion being for example talking about owning bootlegs that you bought in the past without endorsing it. i mean, i own bootleg concerts and have bought, mostly by accident, eastern european bootlegs off of ebay by rather snivy individuals. my saying it is not condoning the act-i am merely saying i have in the past bought these things. now, to condone, i'd tell people that it is okay to buy these things (it's not) and where to go to get these bootlegs or how to make bootlegs and that sort of thing. discussion and condoning are not always that clear though.
if i said what you just said, i'm sorry.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:31 |
Syzygy wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
Used it a lot in the early 90's. Excellent drug, until you have a bad trip, after that it never feels the same again. Took my last one about ten years ago. Advice to anyone considering it. Dont bother. I suffered bad depression as a result my lifestyle at the time, and LSD was a big factor in that. |
[IMG]height=17 alt=Clap src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle> Sound advice. A friend of mine suffered a breakdown after tripping almost daily for several months (though I'm pleased to say he made a full recovery) and I've been with a few people who were having bad trips - not funny at all ... my only 'bad trip' was an ecstasy pill that went horribly wrong, not a experience I wish to repeat. If you do experiment with the stuff, remember that you never know how strong it is until it's in your system, and once it's in there you'll be under the influence for 8 - 12 hours and experiencing the after effects for 2 - 3 days. A bad trip can take days to get over if you're lucky.
I have taken acid, the last time about 10 years ago, and I had some interesting times on it. To clear up a common misconception: although you do experience some visual effects - I've seen walls 'breathing', rainbows emerging from teacups, spinning discs on the walls, moving objects leaving traces behind them in the air, auras around people and objects - neither I nor anybody I know has ever had the kind of "Then I saw John Wayne in a pink bikini playing the piano on an elephant's back in my fridge" hallucination that some people seem to expect. The visuals tended to occur early on in the trip, following which I achieved a deep understanding of the appleness of an apple, the patterns in the carpet or (on one memorable occasion) Picasso and Braque's synthetic cubism from about 1912 - 14, for instance the famous portrait of Ambrose Voillard. I didn't find that it did much for my perception of music - weed and shrooms are for more effective for me - but it did for some of my friends. I also couldn't watch TV while tripping - I was too aware of the flickering image - and I became very sensitive to light and to sudden changes in temperature.
For the benefit of any Beatles fans, Lucy In The Sky isn't a very good musical evocation of a trip, but She Said, Rain and Strawberry Fields capture the experience to a T. For Floyd Fans, most of Syd's songs on Piper give a good idea of what a trip can be like, particularly Scarecrow and Matilda Mother, but Syd's solo work shows what the after effects can be like. |
You summed up the trip experience there very well, Chris.
The most simple things can seem pretty profound. One time I was lying on the grass looking up at the moon. As the clouds passed overhead, I could feel the rotation of the Earth. It was an incredible feeling. My friend tried eating a ham sandwich, and said he could 'taste' the fear and pain of the pig that died for his sandwich!!
Mad times. Im glad there behind me now, the world is a mad enough place without seeing it through 'Kaleidascope eyes'
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:01 |
Tony:
If this thread is still within "official" bounds, we must all be doing something wrong! LOL.
Actually, following on darksinger's comment, I think the point is that there is nothing wrong with discussing one's experiences with drugs, or providing facts (or even just opinions) and information about drugs, or even debating the merits (or lack thereof) of the use of certain drugs under certain conditions. It is only if and when someone says, "Hey, all you young'uns here - you should all go out and buy lots of illegal drugs, fry your brains, and end up permanently believing you're an orange" that the line is crossed.
As for me, I made it clear that I while I am neither proud nor ashamed of my own experiences, I do not condone the willy-nillly use of any drug, including marijuana.
Peace.
Edited by maani - August 26 2006 at 19:01
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:29 |
Admin Note:
One would hope this thread continues to progress in an adult and sensible manner.
Some members are coming close to crossing the line which says discuss by all means but do not encourage.
The Admin Team hope that this thread continues to maintain its generally high standards and that the "community" of posters here self-moderate.
Thanks.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:29 |
Syzygy wrote:
darksinger wrote:
heyitsthatguy wrote:
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems. |
I'd hope that the admins would delete a thread advocating that perversion in a hurry  ! |
Don't knock it till you've tried it Syzygy!  
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:17 |
darksinger wrote:
heyitsthatguy wrote:
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems. |
Let me rephrase, if the discussion is actually providing a means to commit the action, then it shouldn't be brought up. For example, someone asking 'hey do you have any files you can send me' or someone saying 'go to this site if you want to download such and such.' Now try telling people to go to a site to get the sinfully delicious ketchup to put on their filet mignon, they can't exactly use the internet as a means to accomplish this. also, as far as the discussion of sex leading to it, people used to believe that, look at the Puritans, they wouldn't even allow dancing because it could suggest it. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am
Edited by heyitsthatguy - August 26 2006 at 17:19
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
Status: Offline
Points: 1320
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:07 |
I mean, LSD
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
Status: Offline
Points: 1320
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:03 |
No, and never will, not interested...
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7177
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 16:46 |
darksinger wrote:
heyitsthatguy wrote:
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems. |
I'd hope that the admins would delete a thread advocating that perversion in a hurry  !
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 16:02 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.
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Kleynan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 720
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 15:27 |
From where I'm from: The Faroe Islands, there are mushrooms growing in your backyard. Basically anywhere. I'm too frightened to try it, but some of my friends are crazy for the stuff.
Edited by Kleynan - August 26 2006 at 15:32
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 14:01 |
Spacecraft, there is no ban on discussing piracy, but we need to be careful to ensure we are not seen to be condoning or promoting it.
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 13:07 |
Certif1ed:
Thank you for the reminder. The Australian aborigines (whose "dreamtime" belief is arguably the oldest known "faith") have used various plants to induce altered states of consciousness for thousands of years. As well, the Native Americans (whose "Great Spirit" belief is arguably the second oldest known "faith") used peyote, mescaline, psilocybin, marijuana and other plants to induce "spirit visions" for many thousands of years.
Peace.
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 13:02 |
For your reading pleasure, an Op-Ed from today's New York Times:
The Czars’ Reefer Madness
AMSTERDAM
Arjan Roskam, the creator of the award-winning marijuana blend named “Arjan’s Haze,” has dozens of pictures of celebrity visitors on the wall of his coffee shop in Amsterdam. He’s got Eminem, Lenny Kravitz, Alicia Keys, Mike Tyson — but so far, unfortunately, not a single White House drug czar.
The czars have preferred to criticize from afar. In the past, they’ve called Dutch drug policy “an unmitigated disaster,” bemoaning Amsterdam’s “stoned zombies” and its streets cluttered with “junkies.” Anti-pot passion has only increased in the Bush administration, which has made it a priority to combat marijuana.
More than half a million Americans are arrested annually for possessing it. The Bush administration can’t even abide it being used for medical purposes by the terminally ill. Why risk having any of it fall into the hands of young people who could turn into potheads, crack addicts and junkies?
But if America’s drug warriors came here, they would learn something even if they didn’t sample any of the dozens of varieties of marijuana sold legally in specially licensed coffee shops. They could see that the patrons puffing on joints generally don’t look any more zombielike than the crowd at an American bar — or, for that matter, a Congressional subcommittee listening to a lecture on the evils of marijuana.
And if they talked to Peter Cohen, a Dutch researcher who has been studying drug use for a quarter-century, they would discover something even more disorienting. Even though marijuana has been widely available since the 1970’s, enough to corrupt a couple of generations, the Netherlands has not succumbed to reefer madness.
The Dutch generally use drugs less than Americans do, according to national surveys in both countries (and these surveys might understate Americans’ drug usage, since respondents are less likely to admit illegal behavior). More Americans than Dutch reported having tried marijuana, cocaine and heroin. Among teenagers who’d tried marijuana, Americans were more likely to be regular users.
In a comparison of Amsterdam with another liberal port city, San Francisco, Cohen and other researchers found that people in San Francisco were nearly twice as likely to have tried marijuana. Cohen isn’t sure exactly what cultural and economic factors account for the different usage patterns in America and the Netherlands, but he’s confident he can rule out one explanation.
“Drug policy is irrelevant,” says Cohen, the former director of the Center for Drug Research at the University of Amsterdam. It’s quite logical, he says, to theorize that outlawing drugs would have an impact, but experience shows otherwise, both in America and in some European countries with stricter laws than the Netherlands but no less drug use.
The good news about drugs, Cohen says, is that the differences among countries aren’t all that important — levels of addiction are generally low in America as well as in Europe. The bad news is that the occasional drug fad get hyped into a crisis that leads to bad laws.
“Prohibition does not reduce drug use, but it does have other impacts,” he says. “It takes up an enormous amount of police time and generates large possibilities for criminal income.”
In the Netherlands, that income goes instead to coffee-shop owners and to the government, which exacts heavy taxes. It also imposes strict regulations on what goes on in the coffee shop, including who can be served (no minors) and how much can be sold (five grams to a customer). Any unruly behavior or public disturbances can quickly close down a shop.
To avoid problems at the Green House, Roskam has closed-circuit cameras and a staff that urges novices to stick with small doses, and to protect their lungs by taking hits from a vaporizer. Unlike street buyers in America, customers know exactly what strength they’re getting, which is especially useful for the hundreds of people with multiple sclerosis and other ailments who use his marijuana medicinally.
Roskam sneers at the street products in the United States, which he considers overpriced and badly blended. But he acknowledges there’s one feature in the American market he can’t compete with.
“Drugs are just less interesting here,” he said. “One of my best friends here never smoked cannabis, never wanted to even try my products. Then when she was 32 she went to America on holiday and smoked for the first time. I asked her why, and she said: ‘It was more fun over there. It was illegal.’ ”
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 11:27 |
Dreamer wrote:
I was going to tell Freddy off, but I see Maani and everyone else did that well enough.
no-one told me off, Dreamer, we just had a difference of opinion, in some things everyone has a different point of view!
Just a few things that disturb me (or maybe I just don't get) is that they say weed is a "gateway drug" - a dumb expression in my opinion. True almost all junkies smoked weed before doing shrooms, then acid, heroin or whatever, but aren't people forgetting they drank alcohol, smoked cigs, drank coffee, rotted thier brains infront of the telly before going to smoke weed? Why aren't this things blamed?
The point fred made about music and drugs made me think of the quote by a famous comedian : "If you have something against drugs, take all your CD's and albums and burn them, cause all the artists who made that great music that has enhanced your life so much were all reaaaaal  high" |
i think a good deal of that is myth, are you accusing all musicians of being on drugs??? 
i'm sure there were some but not all.
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 Prog Archives Tour Van
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 11:23 |
^ I think I have a bottle of that somewhere.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20703
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 05:54 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Laudanum is an alcoholic opium tincture to be precise.
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Let us not forget Absynth liquor, used by most artistes in the early XXth century.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 04:22 |
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
I'm pretty sure people have admitted to having pirated software/music on here before without being reprimanded.
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 20:35 |
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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Harkmark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 538
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 20:12 |
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