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Topic ClosedWhen somebody in your favourite band finds "GOD"
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Poll Question: is The God thing a good thing for the band or not ?
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40 [74.07%]
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 12:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 

PS: Sorry for the large font, but I wrote it in Word and paste, this ruins the format.


You can change the font in the post though.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 12:47

It depends in what you mean by finding God.

 

If the artist goes to an extreme of believing that any form of art that doesn’t mention the word Jesus every 2.5 seconds is a sin….the band is ruined, there’s a big difference in being religious and being a fanatic.

 

The problems are many:

 

·        Most Rock stars had a previous live of excesses of alcohol, drugs, sex, etc so they try to balance this going to the other extreme and this leads to fanaticism.

 

·        The bigots of religious business such as the 700 Club love to find a famous (And usually wealthy $$$$) Rock star, not only because they will try to get his/her bucks, but also because they are their best propaganda, if I had a buck for each time I heard “I was unhappy, sad, depressed, now I found joy and pleasure Mr. Robertson” I would be rich..

 

·        I remember Steve Walsh laughing and saying that if Kerry Livegren would had known how bad he would be treated in the 700 Club, he would had never gone there.

 

·        This leaches abuse of the honest faith of a person to make profit.

 

But there are the artists that have found God and continue their life normally because they know how to separate they’re inner and honest faith from their public life.

 

Look at Glass Hammer, I understand that all the members are faithful Christians but they even done an album about The Lord of the Rings (Seen as satanic magic by certain fundamentalist sects), they know that God gave them a talent and they have to use it, they also know the faith is personal and they never tried tp force their audience to share their beliefs.

 

Mick Box and Lee Kerslake are Christians (As far as I know) but they never did Evangelism with their music or used Uriah Heep as a vehicle to spread their truth.

 

This kind of Christians deserve my full respect and if  they find God, good for them, this will make them more mature and centered persons if they are able to separate their public life from their personal beliefs.

 

This doesn’t means they have to be silent, if they are interviewed they must tell their fans in what they believe, it’s good and healthy but replacing babe, babe, babe for Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, is simply absurd and I don’t believe God wants a person to waste the talent he gave them playing for a bunch of fanatics instead of crowds that will be inspired by their honest way of life.

 

Christ said that the best example is given by our acts, a good Christian doesn’t need to shout his faith in every song, this will convince nobody because the audience that will listen them are already fanatics, I wouldn’t go to a Chistian or even Catholic (I’m a Catholic) concert because I don’t believe in this pharisaic demonstrations.

 

On the other hand a great Rock star that makes great music but lives as an honest, good and humble person is a living example of Religious and in this specific case Christian values for those who believe Rock icons are perverted psychopaths and egomaniacs….Bravo for them.

 
As our newbie Christian member said: Not everybody who says Lord, Lord, Lord will be saved......Act as a Christian treat the others as you want to be treated by them and believe in your God (Whatever name you believe is the correct one) and you will be saved or even if you don't believe, act as an honest, good person and I believe you are doing right, you don't need to shout your faith in every act of your life, that's what the Pharisees did and Jesus found them repulsive.

 

Iván

 

PS: Sorry for the large font, but I wrote it in Word and paste, this ruins the format.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 07 2007 at 13:01
            
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Points: 593 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 11:56
Two mentioned prog geniuses. One confirms Yes and one No..

N. Morse - While he brought theme of god fully into his lyrics, he bacame quite boring to me (not because of lyrics - I don't care much about them, or even the musicianship, that is top notch, but I feel the lack of music ideas and repeating himself, I find his recent music quite regressive and sterile).
But on the contrary Livgren's music seems to me still fresh and great since his first religious album Seeds of Change, to Collector's Sedition, Somewhere to Elsewhere or his Proto-Kaw albums.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 06:36
Kings X is another example of a Christian band which is not too obvious in their lyrics. There are some clues though.
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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 06:09
I think when the lyrics are too over the top or "in your face" it puts a lot of people off the band or artist.
Cryptic Vision is a good example of a band that leaves their lyrics open to interpretation without any "fire and brimstone" preaching.
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:38
<<Evangelical Christianity calls for conversion of everyone to that doctrine. So, any message you get from an Evangelical lyricist is telling you that you will go to hell unless you follow their path.>>

I'll field this one since the 'sexy' comment is a bit subjective. This may be true in some cases, but I've been listening to the Christian band Mercy Me lately and their songs aren't like this at all. For example: "Homesick" is about being reunited one day with your loved ones who have passed on. This approach seems to be throughout the Christian music I listen to...including Neal Morse. The same can be said for bands like Seventh Day Slumber or Casting Crowns. From what I take from their music is a lot less 'fire and brimstone', and more the simple glorification of their relationship with God. Just a different way of interpreting it, I guess.

E

Edited by E-Dub - February 06 2007 at 19:42
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Points: 8844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:37
I don't think that christianity or any religion will nessessarily detrimentally effecty an artist's output, but it tends to.  Christian lyrics can be really lame, recycling the same couple of boring phrases.  Looking at "Christian rock," the entire genre reeks of uncreative lyrics played over the same boring chord progressions.

And idealogical lyrics always bug me.  Ooooh, you love Jesus!  I don't give a crap!


However, your spiritual beliefs THEMSELVES do not effect the music if you don't MAKE them effect the music.  For example, Robert Fripp underwent a spiritual revelation of some sort in 1974, but I still love his music after then because he keeps it to himself.


Edited by rileydog22 - February 06 2007 at 19:44

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Points: 799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:19
This is an interesting topic. I, for one, have a hard time listening to Neal Morse since his salvation. I wondered why I had issue with that and not with Christmas carols, for example. I came to these conclusions:

- Evangelical Christianity calls for conversion of everyone to that doctrine. So, any message you get from an Evangelical lyricist is telling you that you will go to hell unless you follow their path. This is a drag.
- Rock music, when it is good, makes you feel a little...sexy. There's an odd conflict of emotions when feeling like you're "rocking out" and trying to embrace righteousness.
..::welcome to the shadow circus::..
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Points: 808 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:11
Originally posted by fullbug13 fullbug13 wrote:

Originally posted by theBox theBox wrote:

An artist can find this G.hastly O.verrated D.eity without it affecting his creativity.
 
I had to re-register just to voice my anger at this. You believe that God is an over-rated deity? I hope that you find the truth before standing in His judgement.
 
What you all seem to misunderstand, is that Neal Morse & Kerry Livgren have found Christ Jesus as their Savior. They are not out to musically appeal to anyone any longer; they are out to live for God and Jesus Christ. They are using the talents that God has given them to publicly praise and worship our Father and King. Who cares what you think about them or their music! What matters is what God, the 'under-rated, under-worshipped, under-praised & mostly forgotten Creator'  wants of them.
 
I am extremely proud of these men. I am proud of Brian Welch too, former lead guitarist of the hard core metal band Korn. When you find Jesus as who He is, the Savior of man, the ONLY way to personally know God the Father . . . you WANT to praise Him.
 
These men don't care if you want them to be or do or say what they did BEFORE finding God; they care more about "what does [my] God want from [me]". 
 
Matt. 7:21-23  
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who willfully sinned!’
I read what you said and I think you said it very well ....

 I don`t agree with you though  because the proof of what this topic is about is in the product and the theme is lacking originality . If somebody could come up with some new phrases or a unique innovative way to celebrate God instead of always the same cliches  and had a new vision  (because lets face it the old cliches Christians use have become less than mentally stimulating)  I think more people would embrace the concept of Christianity in Art , if they just let God do the work for them through them without forced or pushed "opinions"   perhaps then it would be better conveyed it in their achievement of higher creative output . 

It just seems almost too easy to repeat the same cliches  over and over  what Christians need to learn to do is think outside the square not stay in a safe place that never seems to elevate from the norm.

I am a Christian BTW  in the sense I believe Christ is our savior , but honestly if somebody asks me what I think of the modern age and Christian attitudes that exist these days, I would be quietly thinking "its time we got with the program" and time to stop passing the blame to Satan every time we screw up.   ,

I  believe we are not alone in this universe  but we have not evolved enough yet to be of any interest to any other species,  so my Christian beliefs are challenged. If the people from the period the bible was largely based on 2000 years ago were able to see into the future wouldn`t they have said that the space shuttle was a "white demon" that desecrated the heavens and spewed red fire into eternity  and can only be the work of SATAN ?    ....    we need to evolve and so must the  message of Christianity,   no more cliches  that's what I believe turns many people off  (its a different world to 2000 years ago our language has evolved so has our literature)

Expression through the unconditional love of fellow man not judgment would be a good start  Smile


Edited by Masque - February 06 2007 at 20:09
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 15:57
Originally posted by Psychedelia Psychedelia wrote:

I think religion has a detrimental effect on music/bands. I say this because all the bands i have listened to that have found religion were so much better before this. And E-Dub you said that the lyrics aren't what people care about. This is wrong. I don't like listening to Neal Morse because of the atrocious, cringeworthy lyrics. Also it seems to change the musical direction of groups. Classic example is Nick Cave who went from writing fantastic songs about murder and generally nasty things. He found religion and suddenly you got God is in the House.


Well, I stand by my statement regardless. I don't know how many times I've read on this site, "I just can't get past the 'God' thing," when talking about Neal Morse's musical direction.

As for Nick Cave's transformation, I'd much rather surround myself with God than of murder and other general nasty things. But hey, that's just me.

E
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Points: 238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 15:35
I think religion has a detrimental effect on music/bands. I say this because all the bands i have listened to that have found religion were so much better before this. And E-Dub you said that the lyrics aren't what people care about. This is wrong. I don't like listening to Neal Morse because of the atrocious, cringeworthy lyrics. Also it seems to change the musical direction of groups. Classic example is Nick Cave who went from writing fantastic songs about murder and generally nasty things. He found religion and suddenly you got God is in the House.
Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:50

Just in case anyone needs a reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBAhvI0TRDs

Edited by E-Dub - February 06 2007 at 12:55
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:48
When someone has a spiritual awakening, it is going to affect all aspects of life. In a band situation, this will also change the musical dynamic. If what they originally had was working well, this probably isn't going to be a good thing. This is why Neal Morse felt he had to leave Spock's Beard. As a solo artist, he has been able to follow his musical path very successfully.

I have an understanding of this, having gone through a spiritual change myself. Once it has become more integrated in day to day life, perhaps some of these musicians could join their old band mates again.
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Points: 15535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:29
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I don't think that generalization is a good idea in this case. If someone in a band finds God, the music doesn't necessarily change immediately. Perhaps it doesn't even change at all. This poll could turn into a useless "christian bands suck" discussion...


Clap  I agree.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:28
I think that it's pretty amazing that peope have absolutely no problem with lyrics attacking religion and God, but yet  as soon as there's mention of a higher power or repenting people go running for the hills claiming the music is ruined.

If you're going to say that finding God ruins a band because the lyrics become overtly attuned to their religion, you should say the same thing when atheists start vocalizing their dislike of God.

Religion effect a band no different than any personality change of the band members will effect band. It may just shift priorities, as having a child, or conversely, becoming a drug addict might do. Sometimes these shifts are bad, sometimes theyre good, sometimes they don't effect a thing.

So neither of these choices are correct.

To pick on one person who believes it does effect a band. 

Originally posted by Nash Nash wrote:

i think that religion affects (most times) negatively a band


Nash do you enjoy the song Halo by Porcupine Tree?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:24
I don't think that generalization is a good idea in this case. If someone in a band finds God, the music doesn't necessarily change immediately. Perhaps it doesn't even change at all. This poll could turn into a useless "christian bands suck" discussion...


Edited by Philéas - February 06 2007 at 12:26
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:18
Originally posted by Nash Nash wrote:

i think that religion affects (most times) negatively a band


How? Please explain.

E
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Points: 529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:16
i think that religion affects (most times) negatively a band

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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:05
Originally posted by fullbug13 fullbug13 wrote:

Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

^ is that a troll or sock-puppet post? I can't believe that someone would do that in all sincerity.  . . . . . . .just because I think if they've had time to find god then their mind hasn't been on the music =P

 

In all sincerity, yes, I did do that! I have not posted in over a year and forgot my screen name. I visit this site almost daily, so call me a troll, I don't care.

 

However, I believe you are correct about one thing . . . I think when Neal and Kerry found God (spelled with a capital G), their minds where not on their music, but on God.

 

And you can quote me on that!


Exactly! I've never understood why people say that Christian music (in general) is 'preachy'. They're just writing from their heart, which is filled with the Spirit. If people have a problem with it, then it's them who has the issue and not the artist.

E
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Points: 2696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2007 at 12:01
My daughter just looked over my shoulder as I was reading this thread on her way through the office......... "well, is there room for dogs in Rock music Mum???"
 
OK, I know another topic for another day............. Clown
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