Is Prog For Musicians Only?

whew... getting a little hot in here. first of all i ama "musician".... i guess. i dont really know anymore after this huge long debate but i am a pretty good piano palyer and drummer. id call myself one. anyways, prog is definatley NOT for everyone, just as rap is not for everyone. it appeals to different sensibilities. i have yet to meet one prog fan that really likes rap, or vice versa. I dont know why i like prog, but i think it might have something to do with liking to be challenged. to think, to really look at somthing. i like those style movies, those types of books, and those types of classes and i take it most of the other progressive fans out there do as well. we dont want skin deep subjects to deal with, we want substance. you dont HAVE to be a musician to appreciate this music, and not all musicians will appreciate it, but i think that it certainly helps.

Prog, and music in general is for anyone to appreciate.  I have been studying music a while which has only strengthened my appreciation for all kinds of audible gloriousness, but I know plenty of people who just like music for music's sake.

Sasquamo wrote: Technical skill isn't the only aspect, but it should be the first aspect one works on.

But if that natural creativity and song writing ability is not there, it doesnt matter how technically proficient you become you'll still write uninspired music. What i'm asking is why should someone whos technically amazing but creatively inept be considered a "better" musician? Would you rate Yngwie Malmsteen over say, Lou Reed?


Edited by con safo - March 10 2007 at 16:03

Sasquamo wrote: con safo wrote: Sasquamo wrote: con safo wrote: So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. . Well, to tell you the truth the technical abilities of prog are often insufficient. inssuficient to do what? play heartless complex music? Some of the most technically proficient players cannot write a song or think up an innovative idea for the life of them, should they be considered better musicians? Wow, congratulations, you've proved nothing.  Some people that can't play well couldn't make an innovative idea for the life of them either.  People seem to think that good skills=can't make anything creative.  It's actually the opposite.

I never implied that. If anything good skills would improve your ability to construct innovative music. But technical skill is not the only aspect of being a good musician... like alot of prog fans seem to believe..

con safo wrote: Sasquamo wrote: con safo wrote: So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. . Well, to tell you the truth the technical abilities of prog are often insufficient. inssuficient to do what? play heartless complex music? Some of the most technically proficient players cannot write a song or think up an innovative idea for the life of them, should they be considered better musicians?

Wow, congratulations, you've proved nothing.  Some people that can't play well couldn't make an innovative idea for the life of them either.  People seem to think that good skills=can't make anything creative.  It's actually the opposite.

con safo wrote: Chus wrote: con safo wrote: Sasquamo wrote: Atavachron wrote: Sasquamo wrote:   And about jazz, the majority of jazz fans are people who play and/or understand jazz themselves. In prog, the majority of fans are people who don't play music or people who don't really do anything but play prog tabs and will never get beyond the average prog skill level (way below jazz), but call themselves musicians anyways. Firstly, I doubt that the majority of jazz fans play jazz. Second, that's a really ignorant and condescending statement about people who "call themselves musicians". If you go and play a Pink Floyd guitar part for 10 minutes every few days when you aren't posting here, than no, I wouldn't call you a musician.  I pick up a guitar every couple of months and try to play a bit, but I don't call myself a guitarist. So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. .    Musicians are the ones who are able to play and understand musical theory, and the ones who had an acceptable amount of study in music and the instrument.. people who just play for fun are not musicians, they are just players. hahah, ok Jimi Hendrix was not a musician?

con safo wrote: So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. .

Well, to tell you the truth the technical abilities of prog are often insufficient.

Chus wrote: con safo wrote: Sasquamo wrote: Atavachron wrote: Sasquamo wrote:   And about jazz, the majority of jazz fans are people who play and/or understand jazz themselves. In prog, the majority of fans are people who don't play music or people who don't really do anything but play prog tabs and will never get beyond the average prog skill level (way below jazz), but call themselves musicians anyways. Firstly, I doubt that the majority of jazz fans play jazz. Second, that's a really ignorant and condescending statement about people who "call themselves musicians". If you go and play a Pink Floyd guitar part for 10 minutes every few days when you aren't posting here, than no, I wouldn't call you a musician.  I pick up a guitar every couple of months and try to play a bit, but I don't call myself a guitarist. So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. .    Musicians are the ones who are able to play and understand musical theory, and the ones who had an acceptable amount of study in music and the instrument.. people who just play for fun are not musicians, they are just players.

hahah, ok

Sasquamo wrote: Atavachron wrote: Sasquamo wrote:   And about jazz, the majority of jazz fans are people who play and/or understand jazz themselves. In prog, the majority of fans are people who don't play music or people who don't really do anything but play prog tabs and will never get beyond the average prog skill level (way below jazz), but call themselves musicians anyways. Firstly, I doubt that the majority of jazz fans play jazz. Second, that's a really ignorant and condescending statement about people who "call themselves musicians". If you go and play a Pink Floyd guitar part for 10 minutes every few days when you aren't posting here, than no, I wouldn't call you a musician.  I pick up a guitar every couple of months and try to play a bit, but I don't call myself a guitarist.

So in order to be considered a musician you must meet the technical abilities of prog? What if you just enjoy playing? Does that make you less a musician? And personally i've never met anyone who plays 10 minutes of pink floyd every few days as a ritual. .

con safo wrote: Trickster F. wrote: I am still surprised why most are not only absolutely sure, but even insist that skill of playing an instrument is the main aspect of playing prog. Surely there must be something more important to it, don't you think? Yes, like creativiy and song writing ability. What tends to bug me about alot of prog fans is that they put musical technicality above those things. They tend to judge music on how complex or fast it is. In fact, you don't have to be a musician to appreciate good music, you don't even have to much of a musician to make music - some of the simplest music is the most effective. As for musicians being close minded - i see it alot too, i think its the "if i can play it its not very good" mentality. . I'd rather a band practice some degree of subtlety rather than just bashing you over the head with complexity and fast playing (See: Dream Theater )