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BaldJean ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
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I did not mean we are the highest civilization ourselves, but we may be the offspring of it |
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![]() A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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paolo.beenees ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 30 2007 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1136 |
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There's a lot of talk about the speed of light and how it is (or it is not) possible to move faster than it. However, many sci-fi writers have shown us that it is not necessary to travel that fast to visit other planets: a well advanced civilisation could create gigantic space-travelling colonies inhabited by aliens who don't care about travelling for thousands of years.
Yet, this is only science fiction. I think scientists (or should I say military authorities around the world) should do their best first to find out what UFOs really are (top-secret vehicles? Plasma discharges? Steven Spielberg's new filming set?).
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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It's probable that there's life somewhere else in the universe, but I don't believe in UFOs. I mean, we haven't found them yet, so why must they necessarily have found us? How would they know where to look?
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Good thing too - they'd just destroy the planet to make way for a new interstellar highway. |
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Ah...the panspermia/exogenesis hypothesis? |
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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In light of the fact that we now can clone and are active in genetic engineering, would it be such a implausible idea that we are the result of an advanced culture's experiment?
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BaldJean ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
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yes. Svante Arrhenius. I always found that concept very interesting and intriguing, although I am no natural scientist |
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![]() A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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To go off on a slight tangent, I want to ask Patrick and Dean (and anyone else, for that matter), to answer the following. Bare in mind, I am not refuting the questioning, I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer, so I can (semi-) coherently answer others who may ask similar questions in the future.
The question: How did inanimate matter turn into animate matter within the Evolutionary cycle and can it be proved with experiments? It is one of those questions people seem to avoid answering, so I am hoping someone can give me a coherent answer that I can understand. I don't doubt the theory of evolution at all. |
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Sounds like you are asking about abiogenesis - basically the origin of life on this planet.
Since I'd probably have to consult it anyway, instead of providing long-winded explanations of the Miller-Urey experiment and other facets of current thinking, I'll just point you to the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis Perhaps others more knowledgeable in biochemistry can provide their own insight. |
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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I am not the best qualified to answer this but it can be understood in viewing how chemicals can react with each other, forming new compounds. Over time, these new compounds can grow or attach themselves to other compounds, complexing. From here you move on to proteins, then DNA, then viruses which are debated as being living organisms because they replicate themselves.
The Wiki article helps out immensely. My post came up just after it.
![]() Edited by StyLaZyn - April 16 2008 at 14:09 |
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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I'll take a look after I've eaten. I cannot take things in on an empty stomach.
Well basically what I'm asking is: There was (supposedly brainless) inanimate matter, then there was animate matter (which had a brain). It's the middle ground I'm seeking. Have scientists actually been able to create animate life from inanimate matter? Edited by James - April 16 2008 at 14:11 |
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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Thanks guys, I'll wait for Dean's response too and take it from there.
![]() I just wanted to further my understanding on this subject matter. |
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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You need to understand as well, this stuff took a very, very long time to happen. Pure chance is why we are here in the form we are. Hopping from chemicals to living breathing carbon units didn't happen over a few days.
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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Oh I realise this. This is why (going back onto subject) I am wary about the fact there could be life on other planets.
If it was pure chance on our Earth, what is the likelihood of it happening on other planets? I also heard somewhere that if a white-skinned group of people moved to a very hot area, after many generations, their skin would slowly get darker, because of the different climate and adaptation (kind of obvious, when you think about it), but how quick would a process like this take? Edited by James - April 16 2008 at 14:18 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Ha, Pat and Rich to it - obviously they have evolved faster fingers to match their faster brains.
![]() I was going to say the same thing as Pat (and give the same wiki link) - I too am no biochemist or molecular biologist and only have a scant knowledge of the subject because it is a field of interest for me, but not my actual field of knowledge.
As Rich says basically it's small steps over a very, very long period of time. This has produced all the individual building blocks that resulted in the animation of matter, but the actual process and a definitive model has yet to be produced, and certainly not demonstrated in any lab environment.
One small point - animate matter does not necessarily imply a brain or even a nervous system - those are inherent in more complex systems than those present at the origin of life - simple animate matter is merely a chemical process. Where evolution comes into play is where these simple animate matter "organisms" survive into subsequent generations.
If it was pure chance that it happened here, then there is exactly the same probability that it would happen on a different planet that had the same conditions. What we cannot predict is whether every chaotic event that occurred in our existence is necessary for the process to work, or whether one minor difference halts the whole process - logic suggests that it is a fairly robust system that would defy most variations since life on Earth has survived several mass extinction events in its 4 billion year history.
/edit: I should haf spelw cheqked that before posting, but too am hingry and need to eat. Edited by darqDean - April 16 2008 at 14:40 |
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What?
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BaldJean ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
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it seems to be a matter of definition for me. when do you call a conglomerate of molecules alive? well, it has to be able to reproduce itself and it has to have some kind of metabolism, meaning chemical processes are happening in it. and there should be a kind of membrane defining inside and outside. at least that's it for me from a philosophical point of view |
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![]() A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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Another thing to consider about space travel, where is our understanding of physics and the universe? Learning can be likened to evolution. We learn and grow more over time. Not to mention, we may one day discover that our theories and conceptions of the universe are not entirely accurate.
My point, there is a great amount of unknown and we currently project based on those things we know or theorize. Imagine in one or two hundred years what we may know. Are we in a "the world is flat" mode now?
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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I don't think nobody has actually seen UFOs.... but on the other hand, I just think it is IMPOSSIBLE that in this universe, in which we are but a small sand grain (not even that) we can be so pretentious to believe we are the only living entities... the problem is, we may never know the answer... and for sure, WE will never know the answer.
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Always an interesting question: is a virus a lifeform? |
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