The Final Cut

I would rate the Final Cut as the worst Pink Floyd album of the lot. Lyrically arguments can be made either way: morose vs deep. I personally think RW expunged it all perfectly on Animals, and everything after that gets redundant. More so than the Wall, the Final Cut seems to me indulgent and whiny, whinging on about topics he's covered before. But lyrics for me are secondary to the music; as long as they sound good aurally with the music then they're good enough for me— Kobaïan anyone? Perhaps lyrically minded people see more in the Final Cut than more musically focused types like myself.   

Musically, I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. IMO, there's nothing terribly "progressive" or creative going on in the Final Cut, just some spoken word over some very simple melodies that RW has used over and over. Sure one or two of the tunes might be catchy or parts might be moving, but they don't draw me in for another listen. 

I remember liking this album more when I was in my teens, full of angst and anger at the world, but you know what, I grew out of it and left the Final Cut behind. Some say that "you have to be in the right mood", but if I ever were to feel dark enough to appreciate the Final Cut, it wouldn't be a good idea to let the album pull me further into misery, better to throw on some Piper at the Gates of Dawn and move on. Great Floyd albums? Animals, Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Piper. If you want something deep and poignant, listen to Jugband Blues.

Unfortunatly no, only Waters (and ofcours I loved - both concerts from him I've seen), Gilmour and Gilmour Floyd I've only seen on DVD and would love to have seen them live... too bad it doesn't seem probable. It's my impression from CD's DVD's, setlists from concerts, and Jon Carin's statement. Ofcourse, the best impression would come from having seen both of them live.

Atavachron wrote: ^ well said, particularly the last bit about excusing one from the thinking side of the form; A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a perfectly OK rock album but a glaring example of the importance of collaboration between what Waters *and* Gilmour provided. A further note-- I saw both that tour and Amused to Death. Gilmour and friends were great the first night, but on the second it became clear this was more a play than a rock concert, a pre-arranged and suffocated version of what used to be a living band. We began to realize we were seeing exactly the same show from the night before, almost note-for-note, gesture-for-gesture. The Waters tour, on the other hand, was one of the better I saw during that period and made me appreciate the album more than I had (always the sign of a good performance).

This sounds a bit strange to my perception of Gilmour and Waters, mainly because I understand Waters is the one who plans every part of the concert he performs and leaves little to improvise or to change from concert to concert, while Gilmour and his shows with Pink Floyd tend to give more improvisations and change some of the songs from one concert to the other. You can see how the PULSE CD and DVD have different songs, as well as the CD and DVD from Gilmour's last tour. Jon Carin, who has played both with Gilmour and Waters has stated something similar: When he plays with Waters everything must be rehearsed note by note and done exactly the way he wants it, while Gilmour let's you put your own touch to the music: if he has chosen you to play with him it's because he trusts you. In no way did he state this to attack any of them two, since both ways work well to put a good show, he was just stating the difference.

^ well said, particularly the last bit about excusing one from the thinking side of the form; A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a perfectly OK rock album but a glaring example of the importance of collaboration between what Waters *and* Gilmour provided. A further note-- I saw both that tour and Amused to Death. Gilmour and friends were great the first night, but on the second it became clear this was more a play than a rock concert, a pre-arranged and suffocated version of what used to be a living band. We began to realize we were seeing exactly the same show from the night before, almost note-for-note, gesture-for-gesture. The Waters tour, on the other hand, was one of the better I saw during that period and made me appreciate the album more than I had (always the sign of a good performance).

I like almost any album released by Floyd, but this isn't one of my very favourite ones. It's certainly very good, with very good lyrics (as always)... yet, I guess the best lyrics/concept created by Waters as a whole piece is for The Dark Side of the Moon. One of my main complaints about this album is that it's kind of slow (and even boring, perhaps), and when it seems about to have an outburst of emotion, it only lasts for a second. Then comes The Heros Return, which is stronger than previous songs (and I really like it a lot), and it doesn't last long enough. Ofcourse, in Fletcher Memorial Home (amazing lyrics and concept) and The Final Cut we at last get the emotion and energy last long enough, as well as the last two songs which are very good. I guess the album works better in it's remastered version including When the Tigers Broke Free, perhaps the most emotive song he ever created, but unfortunatly I bought the previous version of the album and don't intend to spend money again on it (perhaps if this same album had included The Heroes Return parts 1 & 2 I would have thought about buying it again).
     So, what about it, do you people think When the Tigers Broke Free works well in the album? Do you like the song? Has anyone heard The Heros Return parts 1 AND 2: it is like an extended version of the song, in my opinion it works better and doesn't leave me wishing it lasted longer, I really love the song this way.
     One last thing, I don't really like the song Southampton Dock, but the way it was played on the In The Flesh Live album by Roger Waters really makes it better, if only it had been played in a similar way on the album... with this 3 small changes the album would have worked much better for me.

Anthony wrote:   maybe the topic should have been titlted "The Final Cut Appreciation Thread".

No need. It is in the Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation lounge - no other qualifying words are necessary.

Anthony wrote: floydispink wrote: Anthony wrote: TheGazzardian wrote: Anthony - everyone has an opinion :) Unless you know Roger personally, who cares? Your opinion is right, but so is everyone else's. Arguing about someone whose behaviour you can't influence just feels like a lot of work for no gain to me. True, it's pointless because it's in the past. But what should I have said. "I don't like this, album, period!"? A more elaborate explanation was asked. So that's why I said that because of his behaviour his lyrics seems hypocrisy to me. And then the whole mess started over, because it's not allowed to be negative, even though the opening post asked an explanation why you like or dislike the album. Indeed, who cares? If everyone would think this way, there would be no fighting on these topics. I don't like the album, who cares? Does it make you like the album less or more because you know what I think about it? Does, in general, someone else's opinion make you feel different about your favourite music? It never happened to me anyway. So why bother? If different opinions upset you, then maybe topics like these shouldn't be started, or in this case, maybe the topic should have been titlted "The Final Cut Appreciation Thread". YOU ARE, do I really need to tell you again? No, you don't need to tell me again, as you can see I'm telling it myself.

Anyway, thanks for the comments so far, people.

Edited by floydispink - January 06 2010 at 17:20

TheGazzardian wrote: Anthony - everyone has an opinion :) Unless you know Roger personally, who cares? Your opinion is right, but so is everyone else's. Arguing about someone whose behaviour you can't influence just feels like a lot of work for no gain to me.

lazland wrote: Epignosis wrote: I don't have a great deal of respect for Waters as a person or as a musician, but I can oftentimes recognize a work of genius when I see it, and The Final Cut is his. Robert, I often think of The Final Cut a the precussor to Amused to Death, which, IMHO, is THE work of genius by Waters, with both Floyd & solo.

I'm not saying The Final Cut is his only work of genius- just that it is one of his.