The Final Cut

Atavachron wrote: ^ well said, particularly the last bit about excusing one from the thinking side of the form; A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a perfectly OK rock album but a glaring example of the importance of collaboration between what Waters *and* Gilmour provided. A further note-- I saw both that tour and Amused to Death. Gilmour and friends were great the first night, but on the second it became clear this was more a play than a rock concert, a pre-arranged and suffocated version of what used to be a living band. We began to realize we were seeing exactly the same show from the night before, almost note-for-note, gesture-for-gesture. The Waters tour, on the other hand, was one of the better I saw during that period and made me appreciate the album more than I had (always the sign of a good performance).

This sounds a bit strange to my perception of Gilmour and Waters, mainly because I understand Waters is the one who plans every part of the concert he performs and leaves little to improvise or to change from concert to concert, while Gilmour and his shows with Pink Floyd tend to give more improvisations and change some of the songs from one concert to the other. You can see how the PULSE CD and DVD have different songs, as well as the CD and DVD from Gilmour's last tour. Jon Carin, who has played both with Gilmour and Waters has stated something similar: When he plays with Waters everything must be rehearsed note by note and done exactly the way he wants it, while Gilmour let's you put your own touch to the music: if he has chosen you to play with him it's because he trusts you. In no way did he state this to attack any of them two, since both ways work well to put a good show, he was just stating the difference.

Unfortunatly no, only Waters (and ofcours I loved - both concerts from him I've seen), Gilmour and Gilmour Floyd I've only seen on DVD and would love to have seen them live... too bad it doesn't seem probable. It's my impression from CD's DVD's, setlists from concerts, and Jon Carin's statement. Ofcourse, the best impression would come from having seen both of them live.

I would rate the Final Cut as the worst Pink Floyd album of the lot. Lyrically arguments can be made either way: morose vs deep. I personally think RW expunged it all perfectly on Animals, and everything after that gets redundant. More so than the Wall, the Final Cut seems to me indulgent and whiny, whinging on about topics he's covered before. But lyrics for me are secondary to the music; as long as they sound good aurally with the music then they're good enough for me— Kobaïan anyone? Perhaps lyrically minded people see more in the Final Cut than more musically focused types like myself.   

Musically, I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. IMO, there's nothing terribly "progressive" or creative going on in the Final Cut, just some spoken word over some very simple melodies that RW has used over and over. Sure one or two of the tunes might be catchy or parts might be moving, but they don't draw me in for another listen. 

I remember liking this album more when I was in my teens, full of angst and anger at the world, but you know what, I grew out of it and left the Final Cut behind. Some say that "you have to be in the right mood", but if I ever were to feel dark enough to appreciate the Final Cut, it wouldn't be a good idea to let the album pull me further into misery, better to throw on some Piper at the Gates of Dawn and move on. Great Floyd albums? Animals, Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Piper. If you want something deep and poignant, listen to Jugband Blues.

Which is the worst album produced by PF? I think "The Final Cut" and " A momentary Leapse of Reason" are the two we may choose from. I love both the albums, but they are effectively a Waters and a Gilmour's solos. What is missed from both is "Pink Floyd". With Wright back, "The Division Bell" has something more. But this post is about "the Final Cut", lo let's stay on it: What I dislike is the big use of the volume trigger that makes this album enjoyable only when you're alone with a headphone on (Same problem of ELP's "Trilogy"). It's weakness is the fact that most of the material was recycled from "The Wall"'s discarded songs, and the absence of Rick's background keyboards makes it sound "flat". The highest moment in the album is the incredible passage from Roger's scream to the sax on "A gunner's dream". A bit of Wright behind the sax would have made it perfect. When I listened to this album first, some words hit my brain. I remember waking up in the night without a reason, with a sentence that was repeating in my mind: "when all the kids committed suicide". I don't know why. It was impressed in my mind at a subliminal level. It's probably the worst PF album, but it's one of the best albums published in the 80s.  

 

octopus-4 wrote: Which is the worst album produced by PF? I think "The Final Cut" and " A momentary Leapse of Reason" are the two we may choose from. I love both the albums, but they are effectively a Waters and a Gilmour's solos. What is missed from both is "Pink Floyd". With Wright back, "The Division Bell" has something more. But this post is about "the Final Cut", lo let's stay on it: What I dislike is the big use of the volume trigger that makes this album enjoyable only when you're alone with a headphone on (Same problem of ELP's "Trilogy"). It's weakness is the fact that most of the material was recycled from "The Wall"'s discarded songs, and the absence of Rick's background keyboards makes it sound "flat". The highest moment in the album is the incredible passage from Roger's scream to the sax on "A gunner's dream". A bit of Wright behind the sax would have made it perfect. When I listened to this album first, some words hit my brain. I remember waking up in the night without a reason, with a sentence that was repeating in my mind: "when all the kids committed suicide". I don't know why. It was impressed in my mind at a subliminal level. It's probably the worst PF album, but it's one of the best albums published in the 80s.

     Yes, I guess the main problem with The Final Cut is the absence of Wright, and a bit more contribution from Gilmour would have been great (perhaps some longer guitar solos). As far as the passage from Roger's scream to the sax, I always felt this effect was better acomplished on Sheep, where Roger's singing blends perfectly with the keyboards: in this case I can't quiet find the point in which the voice ends and the sinths come in.

I never really saw how it is like The Wall, other than lyrically.

The Quiet One wrote: A Person wrote: I never really saw how it is like The Wall, other than lyrically.   Those were my first, *false*, impressions. The lyrics, the mood and the guitar solos, but then I realised that The Final Cut was really one of a kind.

I see. I just keep hearing it compared it The Wall and it's confusing, because to me they have always been different.

Atavachron wrote: A Person wrote: The Quiet One wrote: A Person wrote: I never really saw how it is like The Wall, other than lyrically.   Those were my first, *false*, impressions. The lyrics, the mood and the guitar solos, but then I realised that The Final Cut was really one of a kind. I see. I just keep hearing it compared it The Wall and it's confusing, because to me they have always been different. I'm not a Floyd expert but I think it was originally part of The Wall family of music [Spare Bricks], intended as a soundtrack, then a rehash of under-used material from Wall sessions, eventually an LP

Yeah, When the Tigers Broke Free is used in the movie. And I think that the teacher thing is a continuation of the story of Pink's teacher in The Wall.

Henry Plainview wrote: I haven't listened to it recently enough to give it a fair rating, but I've always thought the album really suffered from Rick's absence. There's a Floydian organ thing on one of the songs, I can't remember it now, but it's trying so hard to be Rick, but it's not and it's awful.

I find it telling that most posters list certain vocals and Roger Waters' screaming as the best parts of the album. From an instrumental perspective, there have been a few comments that one or two of Gilmour's solos are good, but that's about it. For my money, a couple of haunting lines and Roger yelling do not a good LP make.

If I listen to Echoes, I can remark on hundreds of really interesting and moving musical as well as vocal bits. The best the Final Cut seems to do is: Gilmour hit a few good notes in spite of it all and, Roger's howling again. I'm a long time PF appreciator and rank some of their albums as among the best of across all genres and eras; the Final Cut does nothing for me. Honestly, put on Atom Heart Mother side 1, then Final Cut side 1 immediately after, you'll hear the artistic and creative quality drop significantly. Not a fair comparison? Try it with Animals then. You may "like" the Final Cut better (chacun son goût–to each their own) but I challenge you to say that the innovation and songwriting is better.