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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 28 2010 at 08:48
^ and ^^: agreed, most of the second hand commerce (especially for books, CDs, etc) is anonymous and parallel to the "market". That's why I don't think such a tax could affect more than an insignificant percent of second hand sales. Works more in theory than in reality.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2010 at 08:44
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Well, if you sell something (legally), you have to fill papers with what products you're selling. Tracking the legal sales of music, books, etc would not be a problem.


 
Actually, no you don't, not if you're a market trader in the UK anyway!
Or even a eBay or Amazon marketplace seller come to that, unless you are a registered trading company complete with VAT registration number (which many are not).
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Points: 85 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2010 at 08:40
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Well, if you sell something (legally), you have to fill papers with what products you're selling. Tracking the legal sales of music, books, etc would not be a problem.


 
Actually, no you don't, not if you're a market trader in the UK anyway!
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2010 at 05:49
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

harmonium - I've not heard of this tax - it has certainly never existed in the UK. Can't see how would it work anyway. If you buy a second hand cd from a market stall how on earth is the copyright authority going to be able to collect the tax?


Well, if you sell something (legally), you have to fill papers with what products you're selling. Tracking the legal sales of music, books, etc would not be a problem.

I'll try to find the article where I read this.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2010 at 05:28
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

harmonium - I've not heard of this tax - it has certainly never existed in the UK. Can't see how would it work anyway. If you buy a second hand cd from a market stall how on earth is the copyright authority going to be able to collect the tax?
I agree, many secondhand CD sellers don't even pay VAT to the tax man, so how can they pay a royalty tax?
 
However, it does sound like one of those ill-considered hare-brained ideas they think up in Brussels. LOL
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Points: 85 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2010 at 04:52
harmonium - I've not heard of this tax - it has certainly never existed in the UK. Can't see how would it work anyway. If you buy a second hand cd from a market stall how on earth is the copyright authority going to be able to collect the tax?
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Points: 9226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 16:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

They got paid ??? They are the lucky ones, then. 


I'll take a guess that was Rotting Christ and Century Media.
I 'll take a guess you know much more than I do about the system Wink
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 16:46
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
This is true - the artist only gets paid royalties on the initial sale of the cd - they don't get paid royalties again on secondhand sales - just like any other reselling transaction - the Ford Motor Co doesn't get paid again when you buy a used car.


Actually, a year ago or some more I read that there is a tax of 5% applied to all resellings of copyrighted goods, which is collected by the organizations dedicated to collective rights management (or what's their name). I'd have to dig deep to find that article I read, though.
That has to be some wonky socialist Euro thing, I'm 100% positive nothing like that exists in the US.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 09:20
Ze peanuts are thrown at ze performing monkeys in zeir cages. Tongue

Edited by Slartibartfast - July 27 2010 at 09:20
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 08:40
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!


Usually, yes, but an increasing number of bands sell their music more directly these days, bypassing the labels (or operating their own independant one). It's worth bearing that in mind.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:58
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

They got paid ??? They are the lucky ones, then. 


I'll take a guess that was Rotting Christ and Century Media.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:57
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
This is true - the artist only gets paid royalties on the initial sale of the cd - they don't get paid royalties again on secondhand sales - just like any other reselling transaction - the Ford Motor Co doesn't get paid again when you buy a used car.


Actually, a year ago or some more I read that there is a tax of 5% applied to all resellings of copyrighted goods, which is collected by the organizations dedicated to collective rights management (or what's their name). I'd have to dig deep to find that article I read, though.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:57
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

This is an interesting article, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10654380
Good article Thumbs Up
 
While it stated that the artist doesn't have to pay back the advance if they fail, it also implied that the artist doesn't get paid any royalties until it is effectively paid back if they succeed - essentially the record label recovers all their costs from record sales (including any advance, PR costs etc.) before paying the artists any more money.
 
Of course for a Prog artists, even signing to a biggish label, a £1 million pound deal is just a dream.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:53

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

They got paid ??? They are the lucky ones, then. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:42
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
This is true - the artist only gets paid royalties on the initial sale of the cd - they don't get paid royalties again on secondhand sales - just like any other reselling transaction - the Ford Motor Co doesn't get paid again when you buy a used car.
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Points: 85 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:24
harmonium - thanks for the link, interesting reading Smile
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Points: 85 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:23
I would have thought most artists at the lower end of the world domination scale have day jobs too!
Beware of the flowers, cos they're gonna get you yet!
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 02:16
But if you're world-renowned, you can also charge $50 a ticket for a show, so it all balances out. I'm not a fan of major labels either, but if Evan Parker and Peter Brotzmann can survive on $20 a ticket at a small venue in DC, I'm sure everybody can work something out.  
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Points: 9226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 14:44
a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

Edited by aapatsos - July 26 2010 at 14:45
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 09:06
This is an interesting article, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10654380
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