Thoughts on 'Duke'?

I'm in the fourth group.  I could tell you about it but then I'd have to kill you. 

TODDLER wrote: genbanks wrote: TODDLER wrote: Do you remember Phil Collins giving definition to the seperate crowds? He stated several times that the more commercial Genesis drew a female audience. A large percentage that never exsisted with the trench coat guys who were only interested in the Gabriel line up?  I noticed it amongst musicans all around me but, also music fans as well.   Ok. I'm not saying that there is not two different crowds, simply that maybe there is a third crowd which like more than one of the two phases. Into the Genesis fan universe (I'm not talking about the progressive rock universe) I percieve that many people are in this third group. Maybe they like one more than the other, but not discredit one or the other. Quite interesting to hear this. I was unaware or oblivious to that crowd. It's a positive.

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: Duke is one of Genesis best post Gabriel albums make no mistake

Agreed. (but I still hate it)

Oh, it's getting stuffy in here. And Then There Were Three is the obvious choice for the boys' attempt to get back to their prog roots (had they ever left them with the previous two albums?). No, Duke (known in some circles in my day as "Puke") was not better than Wind and Wuthering! The albums faults? The bombastic opener Behind the Lines that was refreshingly scaled down for Mr. Collins' first solo album (I refer to him as "Mr." because no matter what his detractors say about him in the Lounge, he's still Phillip Collins); Man Of Our Times which although somewhat of a solid song simply didn't fit in with the Genesis catalog; all the pop that would eventually replace what they had diligently worked for from the beginning. The strengths? Cul-De-Sac with Collins' most forceful vocals on the album; Heathaze, which gets my vote for the best Genesis song, post-Hackett. All in all, I don't generally regard Duke as that go-to album when I want to hear something from the band that's worthy of the time spent to listen to it.

kjprogger wrote: Poorly produced (sounds muffled) and a few pure pop songs.  BUT, Dukes Travels/Ends is still one of my favorite bits to blast as loud as I can.  Behind the Lines/Duchess/AGuide Vocal have stood the test of time as well.  Turn it on Again is a great rock song, especially on 3 Sides Live.    Lots of good things about Duke.  Very good album.

genbanks wrote: TODDLER wrote: Do you remember Phil Collins giving definition to the seperate crowds? He stated several times that the more commercial Genesis drew a female audience. A large percentage that never exsisted with the trench coat guys who were only interested in the Gabriel line up?  I noticed it amongst musicans all around me but, also music fans as well.   Ok. I'm not saying that there is not two different crowds, simply that maybe there is a third crowd which like more than one of the two phases. Into the Genesis fan universe (I'm not talking about the progressive rock universe) I percieve that many people are in this third group. Maybe they like one more than the other, but not discredit one or the other.

Of course, and that third group will be comprised of some people who had known the band as a full on prog rock act, and happlily continued to follow them when they changed, and those who discovered Genesis in the 80's, through an interest in prog.

The latter is me. I discovered the band while they were making pop music, but it was my emerging interest in prog that drew me to them. As a result, I have time for both eras, although obviously I much prefer the 1970 - 1980 era, to what followed.

I suppose at the time of Duke (1980) this third group of Genesis fans, may have been smaller than they are now. The Genesis camp may have been divided along more obvious lines, as their music changed quite radically in a short space of time, polarising opinion. Now, in the 21st Cnetury we can look back at their body of work, and cast a critical eye over their evolution as a band, while not feeling the anticipation that a Genesis fan may have felt in 1980 waiting for that next album. We also, perhaps can't appreciate the dissapointment many fans will have inevitably felt at the release of Abacab. I'm probably not explaining myself too well, but I think what I'm trying to say is that the perception of the bands worth in both prog and pop terms may well be different among their younger fans of today, than it was back then.

Blacksword wrote: richardh wrote: I much prefer the production on Duke to ATTWT and WAW which sound compressed. One of the key important aspects of the production of Duke was the snare drum sound which is as good as it gets. Man Of Our Times stands out in this regard. I agree. Duke has far superior production to ATTWT. The jury is out on WAW though. I think the glossy production on that album, works quite well on some of the songs, and less well on others. Parts of Eleventh Earl of Mar sound pretty cluttered to me, but Unquiet Slumbers/In that Quiet Earth sounds really dynamic.