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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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 Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:54 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Despite the quality or whatever, the bootleg is an unauthorized copy of copyrighted material that only the owner is allowed to make.
Read your ticket to any show, it doesn't allow you to copy the performance and own it, sell it or give it for free, even if the author is not going to film that concert, he owns the rights of the music and you are stealing.
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On a detour, what is the legal position on photographs shot during the concert? I think that they too are not allowed. Normally, cameras are frisked away at concerts these days, at least the ones that take place at arenas/stadia. However, I have seen bands calling for fans to send across photos on facebook and I am talking really big bands here, not obscure artists who wouldn't mind souvenirs. I have heard of musicians signing photographs taken by fans during concerts.
I will also give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say there's this band with a wonderful guitarist and on a particular concert night, he performs an incredible on the spot improv which gets much appreciated by the crowd but is not recorded by the band for subsequent distribution. If somebody shot this improv on mobile camera and showed him the video, would he not feel glad and maybe even ask the fan to share it? There's no point in pretending that he will scowl, because most people won't. Fripp probably would, but he is not "most people".  As is typical in most of these debates, the legal position is crystal clear but there is a grey area of emotions outside it and the fact that the grey area has no legal locus standi does not mean bands or artists will be able to wish it away and nor do I believe most of them do anyway.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:50 |
Evolver wrote:
There's not much any official authority can do to stop illegal downloading.
Maybe more unofficial channels would be more effective.
I suggest that Greg Lake take it up with a mafia kingpin.
Which begs the question:
Mr. Lake, has the Don ever seen you eyes? |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:44 |
topographicbroadways wrote:
taking a bootleg at a concert is NOT stealing bootlegging is basically taking a souvenir from the concert you payed to attend. If you then sell the bootleg you are in the wrong but you aren't stealing or costing the band any money. Some people seem to be misconstruing this for a comment against album piracy but it isn't this is about concert bootlegs which are just collectors items not serious alternatives to paying for music |
Completely false.
Despite the quality or whatever, the bootleg is an unauthorized copy of copyrighted material that only the owner is allowed to make.
Read your ticket to any show, it doesn't allow you to copy the performance and own it, sell it or give it for free, even if the author is not going to film that concert, he owns the rights of the music and you are stealing.
You are illegally copying material that only the owner of the copyright is entitled to duplicate.
Iván.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:44 |
There's not much any official authority can do to stop illegal downloading.
Maybe more unofficial channels would be more effective.
I suggest that Greg Lake take it up with a mafia kingpin.
Which begs the question:
Mr. Lake, has the Don ever seen your eyes?
Edited by Evolver - November 10 2010 at 10:51
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:42 |
TODDLER wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
^ What do you think? Read it and see!
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I understand all of that. I mean what is really going on here as a result of the communication between the 2 of them? Can things really be worked out? They both seem like really cool people. Their knowledge, their intelligence etc. I find their posts on music truly interesting and informative. Just hope neither one of them bails out. That's one of the main reasons I come here....to read their posts.  |
Really? I have no answer to that. I'm just mystified.
(Exitthelemons posts are fine)
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:40 |
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" Let the MACs of war be drawn...."
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:38 |
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LOAD YOUR PROGRAM. I HAVE YOUR IP ADDRESS.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:38 |
Snow Dog wrote:
^ What do you think? Read it and see!
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I understand all of that. I mean what is really going on here as a result of the communication between the 2 of them? Can things really be worked out? They both seem like really cool people. Their knowledge, their intelligence etc. I find their posts on music truly interesting and informative. Just hope neither one of them bails out. That's one of the main reasons I come here....to read their posts.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:36 |
Padraic wrote:
GREG LAKE'S PERFECT! ARE YOU? |
NEGATIVE! PIRATIVE! I NEVER LET YOU TAPE!
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:33 |
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GREG LAKE'S PERFECT! ARE YOU?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:22 |
^ What do you think? Read it and see!
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 10:15 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Despite the incoherence and incompetent syntax of your post(s) those parts that are decipherable only manage to reveal their author as an insolent and smug hippy who continually feigns astonishment that his contributions to these forums are deemed to be about as welcome as a vegetarian fart in a spacesuit.
....
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With all due respect to your comment, Lemming, this is extremelly disrespectful of someone whose main language was not English ... and in fact is a perfect representation of the English-ego of superiority and rightness all over the world for everything from progressive, to pro, to cigarettes to what else?
I have already extended to you the courtesy of acknowledging that English may not be your first language.
In the end, it's not about the "insolent and smug hippy" ... as much as it is about the person/group that thinks that no one else in the world can say anything, or has a valid point! So your definitions are "right" and anyone else's ideas are "wrong" ... regardless of how those ideas come via a hippy, an a$$hole or an idiot.
Should you continue to post statements that criticise what you deem as a lack of understanding of the music we all profess to love on this site and question our motives for embracing that music you will receive many more responses similar to my own (and they will not be nearly so respectful or polite as mine) I speak for myself, I do not and never will represent the views of 'a group'
You decide before you cast pearls onto swine who is the greater fool.
I never called you a fool. I called you an 'insolent and smug hippy' and nothing has occurred in the interim to disabuse me of that notion.
I make the statements, because a lot of the stuff written could use a bit more direction and definition and improvement, not because I think it is wrong ... but you wouldn't possibly accept that thought, now, would you ... you have to be 'right'er" than anyone else, specially me.
You flatter yourself if you think I'd expend energy picking on anyone. You cite 'Direction, definition and improvement' - to be closer to what you deem to be 'correct' or consistent with your own views presumably? Your aims are clearly didactic then teacher.
As far as I'm concerned you can be right all you want! I come from a literary house, major one, but trying to raise that consciousness to even folks like you is not possible ... and you would rather hear those folks saying things like ... why do you post in those areas of uneducated people that wouldn't know the difference? ... and I'm not kidding you ... and I have rejected that all my life ... but you are telling me to go accept it and not bother with you or help you improve.
Ergo, we need our consciousnesses raised and your help towards improvement because we are uneducated people? I have searched in vain for a more sanctimonious and egotistical post in the entire forum and can't find anything that tops this. At least do us the service of reading your own posts
Now tell me whose side you are on ... your ego? The board's ego? I just want to help improve it all ... not hurt it, but comments like yours are sad, not to me ... but in the end a total dis-respect for the art itself, since you know above all, that I stand up for the art. You are standing up for invisible ideas!
You have many interesting things to say on all manner of things Moshkito but once again the way you express your thoughts always leads to misunderstanding. This last paragraph to me, implies I am expressing not my own ideas but merely paying lip service to something your paranoia infers as the 'secret protocol of the sinister elders of PA' . It seems you and I are destined never to 'get along' but we can agree to ignore each other in the best interests of the site.
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What in the world is going on here?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 07:39 |
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You have to admire the Mosh for the eloquent obtusiveness.
By the way. Thanks to all you who ran with my idea. I laughed my ass off this morning.
Can someone come by and help me pick it up?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 07:02 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Pirates |
If you've the stomach for a bootleg
Come aboard my pretty boys
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"This "boot" is ours.......tonight!"
And from Pictures...(gates of Kiev)
"These were, ripped from the tapes"
Edited by Snow Dog - November 10 2010 at 07:06
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 07:01 |
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Nice try Lemming. Not sure I could be bothered to decode and answer one Moshkito post.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 06:47 |
moshkito wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Despite the incoherence and incompetent syntax of your post(s) those parts that are decipherable only manage to reveal their author as an insolent and smug hippy who continually feigns astonishment that his contributions to these forums are deemed to be about as welcome as a vegetarian fart in a spacesuit.
....
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With all due respect to your comment, Lemming, this is extremelly disrespectful of someone whose main language was not English ... and in fact is a perfect representation of the English-ego of superiority and rightness all over the world for everything from progressive, to pro, to cigarettes to what else?
I have already extended to you the courtesy of acknowledging that English may not be your first language.
In the end, it's not about the "insolent and smug hippy" ... as much as it is about the person/group that thinks that no one else in the world can say anything, or has a valid point! So your definitions are "right" and anyone else's ideas are "wrong" ... regardless of how those ideas come via a hippy, an a$$hole or an idiot.
Should you continue to post statements that criticise what you deem as a lack of understanding of the music we all profess to love on this site and question our motives for embracing that music you will receive many more responses similar to my own (and they will not be nearly so respectful or polite as mine) I speak for myself, I do not and never will represent the views of 'a group'
You decide before you cast pearls onto swine who is the greater fool.
I never called you a fool. I called you an 'insolent and smug hippy' and nothing has occurred in the interim to disabuse me of that notion.
I make the statements, because a lot of the stuff written could use a bit more direction and definition and improvement, not because I think it is wrong ... but you wouldn't possibly accept that thought, now, would you ... you have to be 'right'er" than anyone else, specially me.
You flatter yourself if you think I'd expend energy picking on anyone. You cite 'Direction, definition and improvement' - to be closer to what you deem to be 'correct' or consistent with your own views presumably? Your aims are clearly didactic then teacher.
As far as I'm concerned you can be right all you want! I come from a literary house, major one, but trying to raise that consciousness to even folks like you is not possible ... and you would rather hear those folks saying things like ... why do you post in those areas of uneducated people that wouldn't know the difference? ... and I'm not kidding you ... and I have rejected that all my life ... but you are telling me to go accept it and not bother with you or help you improve.
Ergo, we need our consciousnesses raised and your help towards improvement because we are uneducated people? I have searched in vain for a more sanctimonious and egotistical post in the entire forum and can't find anything that tops this. At least do us the service of reading your own posts
Now tell me whose side you are on ... your ego? The board's ego? I just want to help improve it all ... not hurt it, but comments like yours are sad, not to me ... but in the end a total dis-respect for the art itself, since you know above all, that I stand up for the art. You are standing up for invisible ideas!
You have many interesting things to say on all manner of things Moshkito but once again the way you express your thoughts always leads to misunderstanding. This last paragraph to me, implies I am expressing not my own ideas but merely paying lip service to something your paranoia infers as the 'secret protocol of the sinister elders of PA' . It seems you and I are destined never to 'get along' but we can agree to ignore each other in the best interests of the site.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 06:42 |
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Great rant.... but pretty pointless , nothing will stop the downloading frenzy.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 06:30 |
Textbook wrote:
Can you believe, all these MP3s
And on Youtube, six million views |
FTW!
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 03:43 |
Can you believe, all these MP3s
And on Youtube, six million views
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 03:34 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
...
Come and see the bootleg of the show. Come and see the bootleg of the show. It's Rock 'n' Rolllllll.  |
Right before your eyes, we pull bootlegs from the skies
And he laughs until he cries, then he dies, then he dies
Come inside the show's about to start, guaranteed to blow your head apart
You've got to steal the show, it's a dynamo
You've got to steal the show, it's rock and roll...
Snow Dog wrote:
Pirates |
If you've the stomach for a bootleg
Come aboard my pretty boys
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What?
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Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Greg Lake’s rant against bootlegs and piracy.
