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progpositivity View Drop Down

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Joined: December 15 2007
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Posted: November 22 2010 at 18:04

ergaster wrote:

octopus-4 wrote:

wrote - after a lot of long and complicated words...

"I'm sure that nobody will care about what I have written because it is longer than 10 words, so I can write whatever I want... Big smile

I like to think we old farts have somewhat longer attention spans. I could be wrong, though....

LOL

I agree! Um.... What were we talking about again?

Edited by progpositivity - November 22 2010 at 18:05

Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7!
http://www.progpositivity.com

akajazzman View Drop Down

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 18:20

["He was really into video games and it genuinely seemed to me as though he was straining to figure out where the "interactive element" was. If there had been a way for him to vote in real-time about whether he wanted the tempo to speed up or slow down, he might be pursuaded to give the whole idea a chance. Or if there was going to be a story acted out on-stage with special effects on a huge screen, then perhaps that could interest him. But just people on a stage playing music? He didn't seem to think that would hold his attention."

Too funny. But I actually think you're onto something here. I see it all the time with younger folks. Their need to be texting while talking. Playing a video game. Pulling bands up on YouTube. When you think about it, we've never had a better time for the real possiblities of Prog. Now multi-media shows go back to Pink Floyd and others at the UFO in 1966. But there's never been a better time for live Prog in all its possiblities than now.

captaincryptic View Drop Down

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 19:08

I'm a 56 year old OP, (original progster). I loved all the bands of the prog of the 70's and saw all of the legendary prog bands of the day. Since I found streaming prog stations like dividing line and sites like PA i have gone crazy listening to everything I can. I love the old stuff but discovering all this new talent and that the legacy of prog lives is has been just great. Not keen on the metal prog though.. I confess to having an occasional Motley Crue jag, I somehow missed that decade.

moshkito

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 19:33

akajazzman wrote:

... Are you still as passionate about music as when you were younger? ...

I think you can tell by my posts ... music is music, and the time and place has nothing to do with it for me personally, although it affects how someone shows their music themselves. Passionate ... hmmm ... I've said before that music is my wife, lover, teacher, mentor, muse ... you name it!

akajazzman wrote:

...

Do you play the older stuff to remind you of better days? ...

Not really. There are/were a lot of things that were stupid and senile in those days that make a lot of people seem a lot smarter now. The main one, at least in California, was the abuse of dope and the you got the dope/you got the lay routine, that ended up leaving a lot of women my age very bitter and not happy with their lot in life.

I've come to grips with all that a long time ago, and I don't sit here and fret that I didn't get to go out with the homecoming queen -- she was so pretty that her perfume stunk up the neighborhood! -- or didn't enjoy the music. I loved all kinds of music and the new stuff was my own representation of the new music in music history ... not just a hit song ... which, sadly, is the one thing that most people here, do not seem to have or understand. The perpective is wasted if it has no relevance to music history ... other than ... I like it ... or a hit song!

Music then, was not any better or worse than today ... today's music, however is more repetition and dubbing of the same thing, because the tools available to teach everyone music are not created by musicians or music people at all ... and they only know the computer/clockwork routines, and are not capable of seeing that music history has been about individuality ... not repetition ...

There is a lot you can learn from repetition, but in the end, it is not enough!

... Did you put music aside for a decade, only to rediscover it now that your kids are older and your career is on track? ...

Nope. I was there the whole time, and writing and continuing to be a part of it all.

...

What do you think of Prog metal? ...

In general, it is really poor, formulaic and childish music that has its roots in the Garage Band circuit and lacks the talent and ability to make real music. Most of these people are not into "music per se" anyway, but into a version of fame and success so they do not have to work, and can play music instead. For many of them, the word "metal" is nothing but level 11 on the amps and another effect on the guitar ... once again, as I have stated, unplug them and you have much doggy doo about nothing ... and a lot of pathetic material!

... Do you feel a generation gap on ProgArchives?

The hard part in this board is that too many folks are still discussing "progressive" and "prog" from "their favorite" point of view ... not from the "music" point of view ... and this causes a lot of friction that on a board that you would have admins that were into "music" ... this would not happen. Don't get me wrong, this board is great ... but its chance to get better is diffused by people that think that the only thing music is about is its own description, not how it is "music" ... and too many of the sub-divisions are just a reminder of the great mis-information and lack of concensus and understanding of what music has become in the commercial age of the 2nd half of the 20th century ... and the words "greed is good" ... are still prevalent and the "law" ... and you are un-cool if you are different and say different things ...

It's all about art and the arts ... the rest is not music. It's just an idea!

Oh yeah ... I am 60 today!

Edited by moshkito - November 22 2010 at 19:50

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

Chris S

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 19:39

"Justin.................gentler than a man....."

Radio Luxembourg!!!!

<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]

moshkito

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 19:48

Dean wrote:

time for the obligatory Stackridge cover pic:

Such a beautiful album ...

... the Goons never got such applause ... and neither did Stackridge!

Edited by moshkito - November 22 2010 at 19:49

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

johnobvious View Drop Down

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 20:45

Of course after I complain I don't buy as many CD's anymore since I have no time to listen, I go and order two more today.

Tinyfish - Big Red Spark and new Guy Manning. Gotta go with the new stuff. Of course I did just buy some old stuff a while back. Glass Hammer - If Wink

. Could have been a 70's Yes classic.

Biggles was in rehab last Saturday

Lima96

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 21:22

Wow... I might be the youngest progger around, I'm only 18 Tongue

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 21:34

OK, we're coming for you

Lima96 wrote:

Wow... I might be the youngest progger around, I'm only 18 Tongue

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

ShW1

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 01:02

akajazzman wrote:

Are you still (just) playing those great albums of the 60s and 70s? Are you still as passionate about music as when you were younger? Do you play the older stuff to remind you of better days? Do you listen to the newer stuff? Did you put music aside for a decade, only to rediscover it now that your kids are older? What do you think of Prog metal? Who are your favorite newer discoveries?

I'm above 40 for quite a while

. Not playing so much 60's and 70's stuff, it's burn in my head. I'm passionate, but recently I've become a bit tired, due to so much new music and information, and not enough free cells in my older brain...

I do play old stuff to remind me a better days, nostalgy is great. I mostly listen to new stuff. I put aside music when my kids where infants or so, but not for a decade, for much less. I do not like prog metal, but I dont think it concerned to my age. I'm quite intrested though in new styles such as tech-extreme metal, and a pinch of experimental-post metal

. My new discoveries can be found easily at my review page. Hope I've answered your question, and that you are still not bored to read all the answers.

tamijo

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 03:35

Getting close to 50 !

Most of your observations goes for my friends too, either they have softened up, listning to more and more mainstream, or they are mostly relistning the old stuff. Not long ago i was playing some diffrent resent prog for a mate, and he was like "its a bit wierd" "aint that a bit too Acid"

ect. ect.

Finaly i had to say: "WTF - you play Ummagumma with 40 guests in the house 3 weeks ago, nothing is more wierd than that.

Anyway I still have a friend into any kind of music, nice to have someone to share the new discoveries with.

Now to your questions:

Are you still (just) playing those great albums of the 60s and 70s? No im into a lot of new prog bands, and other new music. Especialy after discovering Tool, 3 years ago, i'we moved into

more Prog metal and other harder styles of prog., The Mars Volta, Opeth, Green Carnation ect.

But also expanding into other bands i didnt know back then, like Van Der G.

Are you still as passionate about music as when you were younger?

Ooo Yes, i still go to conserts, and i constantly look for new music, from Classic to Acid Jazz,

From Meshuggah to Puscifer.

Do you play the older stuff to remind you of better days?

Thats a trick question

Who says those days was better, but Yes, i listen to all those 67-79's.

Not only prog, Poul Simon, David Bowie, Niel Young, Nazereth, Dr. Hook, Led Zepplin, Poul Kanter & Grace Slick, ect ect ect.

Do you listen to the newer stuff? Yes (as mentioned above)

Did you put music aside for a decade, only to rediscover it now that your kids are older and your career is on track? No music have been there as an inportant factor all along.

What do you think of Prog metal?

Its Great !,

Do you feel a generation gap on ProgArchives?

Not bad, but some of those frequently treads, with people trying to capture the music in text, reminds me of myself, when i was a student, everything had to be defined. When you get older, you tend to be more relaxed about things, and as such, getting easier to enjoy art, without having to "understand" it.

And then offcourse there is the "Fanboy" aspect, younger people are more into, I HATE THAT, because this is the only thing i LOVE. That beeing about band, styles ect.

Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

TODDLER

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 08:09

There has always been a gap. Even my folks that had a very good ear for music could not get or understand the classical music done by rock instruments, but when I was playing Focus, ELP, Ekception and many others, it took them a while and it became alright for them ... though not their favorite orchestration. I did get my dad to sit through Mussorgsky done a few different ways. And hearing Strauss done via electronics (Beaver and Krause) was a total trip. Later my dad got into Steve Reich, Terry Riley and others and enjoyed them much more than Stockhausen and Heinemaa and other electronic "composers" that were not sounding very good ... and you be careful, you say something bad about Vangelis in our house and you will have the curses on you and all the pox's you can imagine! Should give you an idea of the musicality of the house!

Interesting. My uncles were Jazz and Classical players in the 30's and 40's. When one of the Everly Brothers stated that the whole hippie kind of thing had no contribution to Rock N' Roll, I understood it from a different aspect. The original practice of Rock N' Roll derived from the Black community and had little to do with experimenting in hallucinogenics etc. Many of the Blues masters worked on cotton farms and were inspired to create Blues music as an escape from their own painful reality. Rock N' Roll derived from Blues and the slavery environment which the Black community suffered through was horrible but drove them somehow to create actual styles of music. It did not seem to be borrowed from anyone. They were all original styles that many in America were shocked by at first but, later lived and breathed them. The irony of this makes me ill.

[/QUOTE]

The 'You are un-cool if you are different and say different things" brings a few things to mind. I may take this concept a little different from you, I'm not sure. It seems that the original experience in the 60's and early 70's that many of us had with guitar icons or singer songwriters OR...great Progressive writers has not a "heartbeat" in today's world.Which is ghostly to me and personally, I want to steer clear of society in that particular area. Many people today come off with an air about them that tells you ....your topic reference is not cool because attitudes and false realizations OF your references are not only a controversial issue with everyone but an invasion of most human's perception of what they define as the real world today. So many of your references in discussion on prog, music business, politics, sports, etc become anti-productive to an abundance of today's world. What this tells me in the smoothest way is that you can be honest about the history and either no one will believe you or simply think of you as an ideal candidate for drug treatment in a mental ward.

Edited by TODDLER - November 23 2010 at 09:16

Stevo

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 09:33

OP- thank you for this post as it is something I think about often.

I just turned 50 and my oldest child is 19, so this subject is of some relevance to me . My interest in prog began when I heard Yes' Fragile in the mid 70's. I spent my teen years discovering this genre of music- Yes, KC, Genesis, Camel, Gentle Giant, VDGG - and then the spin offs, like Peter Gabriel, Hammill, Hackett, Bruford, UK, etc. I have gotton so much enjoyment out of these recordings that I have stayed faithful to them over the years. At the same time I try to discover new music and new sounds- the discovery being half the pleasure. So I listen to roughly 50% "classics" and 50% new stuff.

My son does a similar thing , but in reverse. He is starting with a bias towards new technical metal, like Meshuggah, Dream Theater, Children of Boden etc. but enjoys exploring its origins, music that was made in the 70s- nearly 20 years before he was born. So he also listens to Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Rainbow, and the like. Obviously he likes darker more guitar oriented music, but that is to be expected given the current fashions. I have introduced him to some of the heavier King Crimson music, and while he likes some of it and appreciates most of it, he isn't likely (yet) to voluntarily play it, just as I am not likely to play anything with with a lot of death imagery in it.

This is a roundabout way of saying that I think that the only thing differentiating the tastes of older and younger is fashion. Older listeners can be as enthusiastic as younger. Both can be attracted to the same things in music- odd time signatures, or virtuoso guitar solos for example- but these are often cloaked differently according to the popular aesthetic, defined not only by music, but also clothing, graphics, film, and other markers of pop culture.

rod65

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 13:50

I'm 45, and have been listening to prog since first hearing Rush's A Farewell to Kings in 1977, though throughout many of the long following years I did not really get into the genre in depth. More appreciated it when I heard it but did not go out and seek more of it--Rush excluded, of course. In the later 90s, I finally got around to digging into the old 70s bands in greater depth, and for a long time after that listened to little other prog than Yes, Genesis, ELP, and of course Rush. At trhe same time, I was exploring other genres, such as classical, jazz, various types of folk, and blues going back to the 20s (And yes, Dylan is right in his claim that "nobody can sing the blues like Blind Willie McTell. Wink

). It was not until fairly recently--actually, since discovering this site, though I did not become a member until well after that discovery) that I started seriosly exploring other subgenres and a wider range of bands--getting to know Marilion again, fully appreciating IQ, discovering Arena and an ongoing and increasingly eclectic array of other wonderful musicians.

I'm rambling a bit, so let me try to focus.

Most of my listening at the moment involves post-70s prog, and the 70s prog that I do listen to these days is largely stuff that I did not actually get into at the time (except, of course, for Rush, who have been my greatest constant), for example Jethro Tull. I have come to enjoy much prog metal, particularly of the symphonic variety, but symphonic and neo-prog continue to be my favourite sub-genres. It is probably safe to say that at no point in my life have I been as excited about such a wide array of bands and musicians as I have been for the last couple of years. And the prog that I continue to discover, continues to inform both my thoughts and my own creatrivity in ways for which I am deeply and abidingly grateful.

questionsneverknown View Drop Down

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 14:23

akajazzman wrote:

Progpositivity on a different thread – “who enjoys Progressive music more !?” – made and interesting observation about younger listeners vs older listeners. It got me thinking about us older Prog and music in general lovers. Lets face it, your average 45 year old is not a music nut like us. Moreover, a lot of the people that were really into music with us back in the 70s just aren’t into it anymore. They’re happy to play the same tunes they were playing back in the day, or trite radio pap. Or worse, they turned off the stereo completely years ago.

I’m curious, for us older music lovers hanging out at ProgArchives, we’re obviously still into music or you wouldn’t be reading this, so what are your musical habits? Are you still (just) playing those great albums of the 60s and 70s? Are you still as passionate about music as when you were younger? Do you play the older stuff to remind you of better days? Do you listen to the newer stuff? Did you put music aside for a decade, only to rediscover it now that your kids are older and your career is on track? What do you think of Prog metal? Do you feel a generation gap on ProgArchives? Who are your favorite newer discoveries?

This has been a great discussion (and I'm still catching up on all the posts).

I'm on one side of 40 and the other of 50. Smile

I have lost none of my love, nay, fanaticism for music over the years, though I definitely feel increasingly alone in this. Most of my peers seemed to have lost some of the passion years ago. I do have one friend who I play music with, but he doesn't really seem to listen to music that much and he definitely hasn't bought anything new in some time. There is another friend I can go record shopping with, but his interests are entirely in the classical realm. Others don't seem to listen much at all and certainly stopped paying attention to anything new ages ago.

I have gone through periods where I notice that all my new purchases are in fact old purchases. That is, I seem to spend more money filling in the holes of my record collection, which could be a 70s prog band, 60s acid folk, 50s jazz, 80s postpunk or bit of 1840s classical! Then I go through periods in which I decide to deliberately try new bands. For awhile I was keeping up with then-current neoBritPop bands (like Futureheads and Arctic Monkeys), but it all got rather tiresome fast. With pop and aging it's hard not to get the feeling that I've heard it all before.

I do try new folk artists (say Fleet Foxes, Vetiver, Low Anthem), odd ducks (Animal Collective) and of course newish prog acts like Porcupine Tree, Opeth and, oh I don't know, Mirthkon. But it's definitely a case of me standing at the checkout counter with a stack of CDs and only a few having been released in the last month or so. Again, this may not be because I'm against new music so much as that I'm always thinking about those albums I meant to buy in 1979 or 1986 or 1999, put aside and never got around to.

As time has gone by, though, I would like to believe my interests have expanded rather than shrunk. I'll just say that there are now country albums in my collection that the boy I was at college would have been more than perplexed by. There is also metal I like now that might have made me recoil six or seven years ago.

Edited by questionsneverknown - November 23 2010 at 14:24

The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love

The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough.

--Robyn Hitchcock

Evolver

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 14:33

I'm 52. I've been listening to prog since I was twelve.

I've always had a hunger to hear music that I haven't heard before.

I worked in a record/CD store during the prog lean years of the eighties, and that way I kept my hunger satisfied by getting lots of jazz fusion, and the discovery of the Cuneiform label, one of the few bright spots at the time.

I was directed to this site, when I asked someone to recommend a good site to find prog that I didn't know about. I have purchased many CDs by band I previously wasn't aware of. I still buy new music, but I have found that I am not very satisfied with most prog metal. I find that these days, I don't enjoy loudness for the sake of loudness. or volume without finesse (there are some exceptions).

But nothing compares to the joy of discovering a new, inventive prog band.

Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

akajazzman View Drop Down

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 14:58

Originally posted by questionsneverknown

questionsneverknown wrote:

But it's definitely a case of me standing at the checkout counter with a stack of CDs and only a few having been released in the last month or so. Again, this may not be because I'm against new music so much as that I'm always thinking about those albums I meant to buy in 1979 or 1986 or 1999, put aside and never got around to.

Ha, yeah, similar to my point about re-living the 70s three times or so. There's just no way I had the money or even time to have acquired all the music from the 60s and 70s during the first go around. Moreover, I may have heard of ELP back then but there was no way for me to learn about Atomic Rooster, PFM, Eloy, or Can back then.

Rolling Stone and Creem just didn't mention those bands, and none of my friends had anything more exotic than Jethro Tull and Rush.

One great thing about being older, it took me up until recently where I'm pretty happy with my collection of the more obscure older stuff, because I've had time to collect it all. So I actualy have more time/money NOW to buy newer music than when I was younger. Back in the 80s/90s when I was supposed to be "current" I was spending all my spare cash buying old classics.

Atkingani

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 15:18

Great thread... Star

It woke up almost all ~~dinosaurs~~ veterans of this site! Big smile

Guigo

~~~~~~

questionsneverknown View Drop Down

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 15:34

akajazzman wrote:

questionsneverknown wrote:

Rolling Stone and Creem just didn't mention those bands, and none of my friends had anything more exotic than Jethro Tull and Rush.

One of my "problems" is that when I find that I like a certain artist then I tend to want to buy nearly everything by him/her/them. This has tended to slow down my progress in picking up vital releases by other people. In terms of classic prog, these days I'm definitely trying to catch up on the international (read: not British) artists I've missed out on. For instance, I was far, far behind on the Italian scene, but I'm also catching up on some of the great music from Finland in the 1970s.

Sadly, this is a never ending task. Gladly, sorry, I meant gladly.

Thankfully, as a teacher I do get to find out about some great, lesser-known contemporary artists from my more discerning students.

The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love

The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough.

--Robyn Hitchcock

krimson62

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 15:41

I'm 48. I think it's just that prog was new back then and that today's prog has built on that; not that it is less interesting,mind you! Also, we old geezers tend to embelish the good old days...