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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 19:05
For God's sake leave 100 words limit. Any woman can tell you longer does not always mean better.
Even more, bad long review is worse than short bad review.
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 19:03
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Don't make me of all people ask to go back on topic.
I'll even use the smiley I hate oh so much

Though I will admit, I wanted to punch you Rob when I saw one of your comments about KC and especially "composition > improvisation" I was so mad bro


You're only mad because it's true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 18:52
Thanks Mr. Hat Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 18:40
I just want to throw in my support for Alan's idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 18:05
That IS a good point, a longer review even for a bad album is better than short. I can personally say I've bought albums (or games, movies anything) despite negative reviews because they are so uninformative about why it is bad.

"Love beach sucks" OK got it.
But take some pride in reviewing. We all know Love Beach sucks but I would be much more impressed with a review going into the music and why they so say, and that'd be deserving of some more attention.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yes, but for those albums that are so bad it's therefore not that big a deal. You know what I mean?
You are saying the limit shouldn't be changed because some don't need 300 words, but that hurts good reviews of good albums. Also, as you said if it doesn't need 500 words to say (this is crap) then it shouldn't be showcased anywayLOL
 

By the contrary, telling somebody to save his/her hardly earned money instead of buying a bad album is as important as telling somebody to buy a good album...Probably more, because good albums have at least 20 or 30 reviews, sometimes bad albums have one or two.

Believe me, if somebody had told me that Love Beach, GTR or OVO were not what I expected, i would had thanked them a lot, because when I bought the first two I was a student, and needed every dime.

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

 We've seen 100 word reviews saying "this is terrible, what is wrong with this band they suck" and that's no good.

Of course, but I read a long review telling us that every metal album was a work of the Devil, or that all bands from a determined country are sh*t...But none of them were made by Collaborators..This is s problem of quality, not of quantity.

Iván

On your first point, I totally agree with you. Objectively bad albums to deserve negative reviews, but 300 words gives a longer description minimum to more appropriately and accurately explain why the album is bad rather than 100 words of "this album is bad, so don't buy it" with no details. Someone might be dissuaded from purchasing an album because of a negative yet uninformative review when in reality the reader might very well think the reviewer's negative points sound like a good reason to buy the album! Either good album or bad album, each album deserves a good informative review that serves the reader well.

On your second point, non-collab/PR reviews wouldn't be displayed in the featured column anyway, so your point makes no sense in regard to my proposition.

EDIT: my last statement sounded blunt and rude, sorry LOL


Edited by colorofmoney91 - March 04 2012 at 18:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:59
Actually, talking about Rob's reviews is more on-topic than talking about altering the system, IMO Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:58
Don't make me of all people ask to go back on topic.
I'll even use the smiley I hate oh so much

Though I will admit, I wanted to punch you Rob when I saw one of your comments about KC and especially "composition > improvisation" I was so mad bro


Edited by JJLehto - March 04 2012 at 17:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:53
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Speaking of reviews, I finally posted a review of a couple of albums that's broad appeal I simply don't get.  I expect plenty of nasty PMs.  LOL

We all already knew how you felt about Anglagard :P

As for Harmonium, as I think about it, the only track I ever listen to on that album anymore is Dixie so I don't care :P

/evenmoreofftopic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:49
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yes, but for those albums that are so bad it's therefore not that big a deal. You know what I mean?
You are saying the limit shouldn't be changed because some don't need 300 words, but that hurts good reviews of good albums. Also, as you said if it doesn't need 500 words to say (this is crap) then it shouldn't be showcased anywayLOL
 

By the contrary, telling somebody to save his/her hardly earned money instead of buying a bad album is as important as telling somebody to buy a good album...Probably more, because good albums have at least 20 or 30 reviews, sometimes bad albums have one or two.

Believe me, if somebody had told me that Love Beach, GTR or OVO were not what I expected, i would had thanked them a lot, because when I bought the first two I was a student, and needed every dime.

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

 We've seen 100 word reviews saying "this is terrible, what is wrong with this band they suck" and that's no good.

Of course, but I read a long review telling us that every metal album was a work of the Devil, or that all bands from a determined country are sh*t...But none of them were made by Collaborators..This is s problem of quality, not of quantity.

Iván
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:39
Yes, but for those albums that are so bad it's therefore not that big a deal. You know what I mean?
You are saying the limit shouldn't be changed because some don't need 300 words, but that hurts good reviews of good albums. Also, as you said if it doesn't need 500 words to say (this is crap) then it shouldn't be showcased anywayLOL

And yes, no one is saying delete reviews because that's terrible, and no one is saying reviews should be judged on the # of words.
It needs to be read. As you said Ivan, song long reviews are terrible and make no sense with their criticism, but so do short ones.

We've seen 100 word reviews saying "this is terrible, what is wrong with this band they suck" and that's no good.
Anywho, that be all my input, really not much else to say. Really hope this is implementedSmile


Edited by JJLehto - March 04 2012 at 17:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:28
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Well, except my first ones (logically about my favorite albums like Foxtrot or Close to the Edge which I transferred from another place where I had published them before that are pretty short) all my reviews have an average of 500 words, but there are a few that have less than 300 words that I'm pretty proud about,

  1. There are albums that are so terrible, that need no more than one or two hundred words to describe them
  2. My reviews about live albums, are usually shorter than the ones about studio albums, because I don't need to talk about songs that I already reviewed on the original studio source...In this cases I only talk about the execution, if the band creates the right atmosphere and production, For example, I don't need to talk about Mood for a Day in the at least 10 albums and DVD's where it's played, because it's played virtually exactly in all of them, of course thee are exceptions, I can't write about Two for the Show, without mentioning the fantastic version of Song for America or about how good the songs from Yes Album sound in Yessongs, but that's the minority.
  3. There are conceptual albums that i don't dare to divide in a song by song review, I prefer talking about the idea, how well the band transmits the message and how good or bad the music is.
Judging a review for the number of words, is as absurd as judging a book for how many pages it has.

If you want to rise the bar, I'm OK, 

Eliminate ratings without reviews

Sometimes being eloquent with a few words is better than writing gibberish in 300 words.

I read some terrible reviews with several hundred words, of people who accuse a band from religious position or for being from a determined country.

Iván

I didn't say eliminate. I just suggested moving them to the side bar where the non-collab reviews are. Like I said, deleting or eliminating reviews is rude and unnecessary. I believe everyone's contribution to the site is worthwhile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:26
Well, except my first ones (logically about my favorite albums like Foxtrot or Close to the Edge which I transferred from another place where I had published them before that are pretty short) all my reviews have an average of 500 words, but there are a few that have less than 300 words that I'm pretty proud about,

  1. There are albums that are so terrible, that need no more than one or two hundred words to describe them
  2. My reviews about live albums, are usually shorter than the ones about studio albums, because I don't need to talk about songs that I already reviewed on the original studio source...In this cases I only talk about the execution, if the band creates the right atmosphere and production, For example, I don't need to talk about Mood for a Day in the at least 10 albums and DVD's where it's played, because it's played virtually exactly in all of them, of course thee are exceptions, I can't write about Two for the Show, without mentioning the fantastic version of Song for America or about how good the songs from Yes Album sound in Yessongs, but that's the minority.
  3. There are conceptual albums that i don't dare to divide in a song by song review, I prefer talking about the idea, how well the band transmits the message and how good or bad the music is.
Judging a review for the number of words, is as absurd as judging a book for how many pages it has.

If you want to rise the bar, I'm OK, 

Eliminate ratings without reviews

But don't rise the number of words, because sometimes being eloquent with a few words is better than writing gibberish in 300 words.

I read some terrible reviews with several hundred words, of people who accuse a band from religious position or for being from a determined country.

Iván

Note: Just in case, being almost all my reviews above 300 words, if modified, i probably climb to the top 20 or maybe top 10 reviewers, but:

  1. I don't care for this ranking
  2. I don't believe in eliminating reviews that were accepted according to what PA requested in determined moment


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 04 2012 at 17:31
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:23
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

 
Oh, in the mean time do get in the habit of fixing up old reviews, not even to get promoted but just to do!
It sucks, but if you enjoy it like I do, I always felt better knowing I don't have this horrendous POS sitting there to my name.

The only reason I have no desire really to touch up my old reviews is because my worst reviews are on albums that already have insane amounts of reviews (KC's discography, Genesis' discography, GG, etc.). And I put my best effort into the "- First Review of This Album -" reviews. Not that I explicitly refuse to edit them anyway.


No I hear you, I have little willpower to even review the "big" albums and like to focus on lesser known stuff.
I agree that looking at your newer work, and everything you said you should be promoted ASAP without needing to redo old reviews, but I have no authority to do soLOL

Hell no Rob that's the best! I love having a WTF!? view on an album. More people that hate it make me feel betterBig smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:21
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Speaking of reviews, I finally posted a review of a couple of albums that's broad appeal I simply don't get.  I expect plenty of nasty PMs.  LOL

I was going to send you one as a joke but then I remembered how bad I am at sarcastic jokes on the internet. Instead, I challenge you to a duel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:18
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

It's a very interesting idea, thanks Alan. I think it would have deserved a thread of its own in the "Help Us Improve" section, but I don't have the time now to move 30 posts.

Sounds feasible from a technical point of view, like going from status to status + a certain length as the criteria for showing reviews in the left column. It would probably need M@x doing some scripting, though.

Any other opinions?

Nah, that's pretty much it. It came to mind while I was writing a term paper for my systems analysis class LOL


Sorry, I was asking other people to contribute, not for you to improve on the initial idea. I'm tired... Embarrassed

Oops, sorry LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:16
Speaking of reviews, I finally posted a review of a couple of albums that's broad appeal I simply don't get.  I expect plenty of nasty PMs.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:14
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

 
Oh, in the mean time do get in the habit of fixing up old reviews, not even to get promoted but just to do!
It sucks, but if you enjoy it like I do, I always felt better knowing I don't have this horrendous POS sitting there to my name.

The only reason I have no desire really to touch up my old reviews is because my worst reviews are on albums that already have insane amounts of reviews (KC's discography, Genesis' discography, GG, etc.). And I put my best effort into the "- First Review of This Album -" reviews. Not that I explicitly refuse to edit them anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:11
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

 

I would never say that short reviews are universally uninformative.

What I am saying to you is this: If you are unsatisfied with your reviews, revise them.  As for the other reviewers...it's their names on their reviews.  If a person sees so many "uninformative" reviews from John Doe, then John Doe will likely be ignored, even if his is the first or second one on the left-hand side.

But because my old reviews are short and objectively uninformative, I'd have to rewrite them to become promoted, whereas people who are already promoted don't need to revise their old short objectively uninformative reviews to even maintain their promoted status. I'm having a really hard time describing what I mean.

BTW, I really love debating things with you. You're well-spoken and you don't get immediately angry like a lot of people do. 


I'm not the one who does any promoting.  If I were, I would deny you a promotion on the basis of your Kansas reviews.  Tongue

Seriously, I don't have an answer for the apparent inconsistency regarding old reviews.  All I can say is that (again), if I were you, I'd revise my reviews (especially if it meant a status bump).  It's a good exercise anyway.

I personally think people should invest some time in revising old, poor reviews.  Then again, not all of the collaborators were promoted because of their reviews, so there's that to consider.

And thank you!  The feeling is definitely mutual.  Handshake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2012 at 17:10
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:



inb4 Snow Dog calls me an a****le or something.
Why would I do that? This a pretty random think to say. Have I done something to upset you? 

I'm really bad at sarcastic jokes on the internet Embarrassed Sorry. 

I thought it must be humour. Glad it is so.Thumbs Up

Due to circumstances I can't talk about I am feeling a bit paranoid at the moment.Wink

I made a similar joke about James last night and he gave me a similar reaction. I actually feel pretty bad Cry

But I hope your paranoia goes away soon. I also have quite severe paranoia problems occasionally.

/off-topic
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