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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2012 at 07:58
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

I hope I didn't sound as bad as Geoff when I suggested becoming a prog reviewer Sick
I don't think so, Geoff has his special way of making himself heard.

Hey, you know what - I posted the exact same post over on MMA, and the reaction was quite different.  We had a lighthearted little laugh over it there.  Over here, the only reaction I ever seem to get is an attack on my intelligence, because NO ONE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR.
Rilly? What, you mean here? Three replies - Steve (met him once, really nice guy) said the same as I did - (it's always been like that) - and Jonas and Jeff expressed dismay but I don't see anyone having a lighthearted little laugh over it.
 
Sorry if our response was an attack on your intelligence - I try to give as intelligent an answer as I can and try to avoid being condescending and patronising, but if you feel I dumbed-down my replies and attacked your intelligence as a result then I can only apologise profusely .


Edited by Dean - June 09 2012 at 08:00
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Please Geoff, I employ you to take a break from this thread. Whatever you wish to gain from this, I promise you, that has already been overshadowed by something else entirely. This is not the way to go, trust me.

I can understand why you want to fight, if for anything, then for your cred. I think I would have too actually, but the way things are panning out, it just seems defensive and counterproductive.
Please, this is just a word of advice. I am not trying to take a swipe at you or make you look bad
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dtguitarfan View Drop Down
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OMG, seriously?  Look, if your immediate reaction to the thread linked to above was to either: a) say nothing, or b) say something along the lines of "har har, funny stuff", then I was not talking about you.  But if your reaction was to tell me how wrong I am to attack this wonderful, beautiful art form known as pop music (I think I just barfed into my mouth a little), then yes, I meant you.
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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^^^ Really? Thankyou for making that generalisation, I appreciate it but I do have a sense of humour.
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I do.
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dtguitarfan View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

I hope I didn't sound as bad as Geoff when I suggested becoming a prog reviewer Sick
I don't think so, Geoff has his special way of making himself heard.

Hey, you know what - I posted the exact same post over on MMA, and the reaction was quite different.  We had a lighthearted little laugh over it there.  Over here, the only reaction I ever seem to get is an attack on my intelligence, because NO ONE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR.
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Luna View Drop Down
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Points: 12794 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 19:55
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

I hope I didn't sound as bad as Geoff when I suggested becoming a prog reviewer Sick
I don't think so, Geoff has his special way of making himself heard.
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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down
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Points: 22774 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 19:42
I hope I didn't sound as bad as Geoff when I suggested becoming a prog reviewer Sick
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darkshade View Drop Down
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Walter's posts were generally amusing.
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Walter has kind of become legend around here, almost cult-status. I do miss his antics.


I must confess, I don't believe I tired of his schtick.

That said, review what you want to review.  But don't complain about others who review differently than you do unless they violate our guidelines.  If they do, then report them. 


Edited by Epignosis - June 08 2012 at 18:36
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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darkshade View Drop Down
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Walter has kind of become legend around here, almost cult-status. I do miss his antics.
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Failcore View Drop Down
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Points: 4625 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Failcore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 17:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Failcore Failcore wrote:

Lol, Walter much?
Ah, poor Walter - he hated everything that was made in his lifetime, regardless of what genre it was.
A man of infinite jest.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 17:21
Originally posted by Failcore Failcore wrote:

Lol, Walter much?
Ah, poor Walter - he hated everything that was made in his lifetime, regardless of what genre it was.
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Failcore View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

but you have to understand and accept that this is not a prog-metal site

This is not the first time I've heard this phrase, and it seems that it is a reminder some people love to make, but you know what?  You're wrong.  Listen: I am NOT a death metal fan.  I like my metal to be a little more...eh...for lack of a better term, sophisticated.  But you will never ever see me telling someone over on MMA that "this is not a death metal site."  Don't like Death Metal...but the fans who do can be pretty cool people, and if they want to come onto MMA and go on about how Death Metal is the greatest form of music, more power to them.  And while they're at it, I'll throw in a suggestion or two for something proggy, try to bring them over to the...er...light side I guess.  The reminders that this site is not a prog metal site are part of the reason, I think, that the feeling of being unwelcome has come upon some people, including myself at times.
I sense you have missed the point there Geoff by quite some margin. This is nothing like having Death Metal on a Metal site.
 
Imagine that MMA had a Neo Folk category - it's related to Metal but it's not really Metal because it's Folk - that's how some people see Prog Metal here - it's related to Rock but it's not really Rock because it's Metal... the "prog" part is actually irrelevant.
 
In my experience people feel unwelcome here because they make themselves unwelcome. I've never seen anyone here harass you because you like Metal just as no one has ever harassed me for liking Metal.
Lol, Walter much?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 17:12
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

but you have to understand and accept that this is not a prog-metal site

This is not the first time I've heard this phrase, and it seems that it is a reminder some people love to make, but you know what?  You're wrong.  Listen: I am NOT a death metal fan.  I like my metal to be a little more...eh...for lack of a better term, sophisticated.  But you will never ever see me telling someone over on MMA that "this is not a death metal site."  Don't like Death Metal...but the fans who do can be pretty cool people, and if they want to come onto MMA and go on about how Death Metal is the greatest form of music, more power to them.  And while they're at it, I'll throw in a suggestion or two for something proggy, try to bring them over to the...er...light side I guess.  The reminders that this site is not a prog metal site are part of the reason, I think, that the feeling of being unwelcome has come upon some people, including myself at times.
I sense you have missed the point there Geoff by quite some margin. This is nothing like having Death Metal on a Metal site.
 
Imagine that MMA had a Neo Folk category - it's related to Metal but it's not really Metal because it's Folk - that's how some people see Prog Metal here - it's related to Rock but it's not really Rock because it's Metal... the "prog" part is actually irrelevant.
 
In my experience people feel unwelcome here because they make themselves unwelcome. I've never seen anyone here harass you because you like Metal just as no one has ever harassed me for liking Metal.
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darkshade View Drop Down
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Points: 10964 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2012 at 15:10
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Maybe it's time PA made me a collaborator. 
Good luck. I was told "Prog Reviewer" status came about "more or less automatically" after a certain number of reviews...doesn't seem to be the case....
Collaborator and Prog reviewer are two different things. I write reviews too randomly to be a PR. But I'm always willing to help make the site better by updating album/band pages, etc.


You could try bugging Ian (Snow Dog) to try to become a member of the Erros and Omissions team to update albums and such, but don't forget that I can't even update band pages. Tongue


Not sure we need another member right now but if you are keen PM me. I can talk it out with the team, but we normally onlylike to recruit from current Collabs. So it would need the Admin Ok after we approve and if they had no objections...your in!Big smile


BTW...I haven't noticed you regularly reporting errors.

Vacancies exist in other areas, there is no upper limit on team size - Band Submissions could probably do with some help and maybe one of the Genre teams could consider Mike as a possible member (JR/F for example).


I hadn't thought of JR/F. That might not be such a bad idea, given that he's a collab at JMA and all.


I could do JR/F, I'd love it in fact. Errors and Omissions is fine (or both Smile) But wherever you need help, I can do it.
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dtguitarfan View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

but you have to understand and accept that this is not a prog-metal site

This is not the first time I've heard this phrase, and it seems that it is a reminder some people love to make, but you know what?  You're wrong.  Listen: I am NOT a death metal fan.  I like my metal to be a little more...eh...for lack of a better term, sophisticated.  But you will never ever see me telling someone over on MMA that "this is not a death metal site."  Don't like Death Metal...but the fans who do can be pretty cool people, and if they want to come onto MMA and go on about how Death Metal is the greatest form of music, more power to them.  And while they're at it, I'll throw in a suggestion or two for something proggy, try to bring them over to the...er...light side I guess.  The reminders that this site is not a prog metal site are part of the reason, I think, that the feeling of being unwelcome has come upon some people, including myself at times.

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


Geoff, you do not write badly, but your own admission that you "bump up" ratings does you or the site no credit.
Ok, let's clear this up - that was an unfortunate choice of words.  I am SORRY.  I did not mean it the way it came out, I was trying to make a little light humor and failed badly.  The point I was TRYING to make had to do with all the people in that thread boasting on and on about how their 5 star ratings were so rare - I was trying to lay out some reasons why I don't think it's a carnal sin to give out more than a handful of 5 star ratings.  Because guess what - albums are getting 5 stars all over the place!  If I truly love an album, so much that I'll drive hundreds of miles and spend hundreds of dollars to see this band because of that album, I want that band to get some attention, and it ain't gonna happen by giving out a 3.  Plain and simple.  And yes, when I start to think "eh...should I not go with my first instinct....should I take my rating down a notch because other people might not agree with me...", one of the things that does help me to be sure that I am ready to give out a 5 is remembering other albums I've seen get multitudes of 5's that I did NOT agree with.  No, just because something I think deserves a 3, or 2, or even a 1 is in the first place on the yearly list does not mean everything I halfheartedly like is getting a 5 - take my Dream Theater ratings as proof of that (I pointed out that some of their albums got 4's and 3's from me).  Is that one cleared up?
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HolyMoly View Drop Down
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Personally, if I see someone who uses too many 1's or 5's, I'm just less inclined to take them seriously.  Like the boy who cried wolf.  Even if you really love/hate those albums, it makes sense from a credibility standpoint to mix it up a bit.  Take a step back, and consider the album's worth on the whole spectrum of what you consider progressive rock.  I don't think that someone who rates their first 10 or 20 albums as 5's is necessarily abusing the system, particularly if they back it up with a reasoned review.  But people tend to trust some reviewers more than others, and if you want to be perceived as a "trusted" reviewer, it makes sense to try and at least appear as objective and even-handed as you can.

Edited by HolyMoly - June 08 2012 at 14:14
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lazland View Drop Down
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^ You will never stop bickering on any internet forum. Sad fact, but a fact it is.

As to the general thrust of Geoff's points, all of us start off by reviewing our "much loved" albums, or bands. I started off with Marillion, then went to Yes & Genesis, before I started to realise that perhaps people get a little bit tired of seeing the umpteenth SEBTP review etc.

The site is here to introduce people to music, sometimes out of their comfort zone, and, by and large, it does an excellent job.

About five star reviews. I do not give them rarely because I am a snob. I give them rarely because too many somewhat devalues the meaning of the word masterpiece. Same with one star reviews. A terrible album, with no redeeming features whatsoever, is also a rarity.

I had done 100 reviews before I got the PR status, and I e-mailed an admin to ask what the criteria was. I was promoted because people felt that my reviews were up to the required standard, and that they added value to the site. I have been very lucky in that a host of artists now contact me to review their music, and I have feedback from them all. I can say with utmost honesty that all of them appreciate an honest opinion, not merely faint praise made in the hope of goodwill or continued freebies. A good review is an honest review, and that is the top & bottom of it.

Geoff, you do not write badly, but your own admission that you "bump up" ratings does you or the site no credit. Be selective in what you review and objective in how you rate. Go outside of your metal comfort zone, and you will find a bit more appreciation.

MMA is, BTW, not a good comparator to this site. That site would kill for the number of members and collaborators we have on this site. 
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

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Failcore View Drop Down
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Everyone gets butthurt so easily around here. I do not know why tensions run so high here, but I think it's part of the reason we don't have more members. For the sake of the community, we should probably bicker less. Just my $0.02
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