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Aquiring the Taste 
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 23 2012
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Points: 68
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 Posted: November 28 2012 at 05:38 |
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The RYCO C.D.s are the ones that, in my collection, sound consistantly awfull, when compared to other C.Ds and Vinyl.
Edited by Aquiring the Taste - November 28 2012 at 19:04
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, 1905
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darkshade
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: November 28 2012 at 00:33 |
Got a few more in the mail yesterday. Here's the rundown:
Absolutely Free: No more added reverb, sounds nice. The instruments sound clearer. I didn't hear too big a difference, it's probably more noticeable on headphones though.
The Grand Wazoo: I took a risk, and luckily, my copy was not messed up as others online have been reporting. This one was a big upgrade, similar to Waka/Jawaka. No more added reverb, the bass is cranked up a little, and the overall sound is dryer, crisper, and man, the horns are more evenly spread out across the sonic plane.
Apostophe ('): This one was interesting. Like Hot Rats, this one was reissued as the vinyl mix, which is not the same as most Apostrophe (') CDs. It gets really loud sometimes, and then really soft. Some instruments seemed louder than other versions, and the vocals were mixed a little differently, I think. Increased bass and drum levels, similar to ON-S and OSFA.
Sheik YerBouti: One of the best albums to be reissued in the FZ catalog. EVERYTHING sounds better! EVERYTHING! The right channel has been fixed, and the band sounds so much fuller, and more intense. The guitars are crunchier, and the drums are just in your face. I'm So Cute now has the full edit, which adds 2 more minutes to the album. This is a HUGE upgrade, much like Joe's Garage.
Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch: The ZFT said this was the same as the Ryko version, but to my ears, the sound is much clearer, possibly mastered a little louder too. This is also my favorite 80s Zappa studio album.
Get these guys. You'll want to talk about them as much as I do once you do.
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darkshade
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: November 22 2012 at 23:06 |
 HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
darkshade wrote:
and the second half is better with the original vinyl mix, since there is more improv, and the instruments sound more eqaully mixed. |
???
The vinyl mix has four minutes less improv than the CD and it completely omits certain instruments from "Little Umbrellas".
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Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant the second half has more improv than the first half, which is more composed than it seems, and with that the jamming works better, especially in Gumbo Variations, the violin really rips. It's not omitted, but the piano in Little Umbrellas is more in the background, with the bass more up front, and I think it sounds cooler. I also prefer how the horns are mixed in Son of Mr. Green Genes on the remix over the vinyl.
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 22 2012 at 18:35 |
darkshade wrote:
and the second half is better with the original vinyl mix, since there is more improv, and the instruments sound more eqaully mixed. |
??? The vinyl mix has four minutes less improv than the CD and it completely omits certain instruments from "Little Umbrellas".
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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Posted: November 22 2012 at 13:16 |
For the last couple of weeks I have been almost exclusively listening to Zappa, and I've purchased a bunch of the reissues. Here's the rundown of what I've heard so far:
Hot Rats: Original vinyl mix. I am so used to the Ryko re-mix version, I wasn't sure if I liked the vinyl mix or not. It's like having two different albums now. Each version has it's pros and cons, so I'd like to think that I can choose depending on what I'm in the mood for. I think I like the Ryko re-mix for the first 3 tunes, which have louder horns and counter melodies are better heard, and the second half is better with the original vinyl mix, since there is more improv, and the instruments sound more eqaully mixed.
Chunga's Revenge: Vinyl mix. Sounds cleaner and clearer. Not a lot to say about it, but I've grown more appreciative of this album since I got the re-release of it.
Waka-Jawaka: This one is a great upgrade. The sound is, again, from the vinyl mix, and it sounds dry with no reverb added like before, and the horns have a nice punch to them.
Over-Nite Sensation: Vinyl mix again. Sooooo much better than the Ryko version, which sounded flat and low volume. Here, the keys have a nice raunchy sound. the bass is louder and can be felt much more, and the drums don't sound muffled anymore. The overall sound is better, great upgrade.
Roxy & Elsewhere: Same as the old Ryko CDs.
One Size Fits All: Vinyl mix. Similar description I gave for Over-Nite Sensation can be applied to this album.
Bongo Fury: Vinyl mix. Sounds raunchier than before. Everything is clear, especially the guitar; and the bass has a little more oomph to it.
Sleep Dirt: Vinyl mix. Yes, I said, vinyl mix. That means, no annoying female lounge vocals. Need I say more? Well, the sound is a little better too, at least in comparing their Lather counterparts.
Joe's Garage: Vinyl mix. This one REALLY surprised me. The rhythm section is vastly improved. It's much louder and clearer than the Ryko CDs. You can actually hear the slap and pop from Arthur Barrow's bass, and Vinny's drums have never sounded better. I always thought it was hard to hear what he was playing behind the drum set on older versions; but here, it's crystal clear, and makes the album sound a hell of a lot better. It doesn't seem like the rest of the audio is much different, maybe a little clearer too. But the improved sound of the rhythm section is more than enough to make this an essential buy. The version of "Joe's Garage" is a little bit different than the older CD versions, in one of the verses, but it's very small.
Meets the Mothers of Prevention: Sounds the same as the old Ryko versions to me. I've grown more appreciative of this album since I got the re-release of it.
Jazz From Hell: Sounds the same as the old Ryko versions to me. I've grown more appreciative of this album since I got the re-release of it.
I've got Absolutely Free, The Grand Wazoo, Apostrophe ('), Shiek YerBouti, and Ship Arriving Too Late to Save A Drowning Witch coming in the mail soon as well.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: November 13 2012 at 19:31 |
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Might as well chime in. I have the bulk of the Ryko remasters. I'm not about to buy them again, since I have all the vinyl up through Joe's Garage. So when I hear a statement to the effect that this or that remaster sounds like the original Chunga's or whatever, I don't care because I can always go back and hear the original Chunga's. The exception was getting Greasy Love Songs. which restored Ruben & The Jets to its original glory.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 13 2012 at 15:56 |
moshkito wrote:
You sure?
I had 18 versions of Echoes!
16 versions of Atom Heart Mother!
12 versions of One of These Days!
At least 6 versions of Astronomy Domine!
And the bootlegs show you why and how Pink Floyd grew ... up to and including the sound effects thing, Which kinda shows you that in the early days, the sound effects PROBABLY were used in between songs to help setup the new effects that they needed ... for the next piece. By the time DSOTM came out, a lot of the effects that were used were already in sync by the main board, which also controlled some of the effects used ... !!! You can not get this idea from their albums ... at all!!!!! But the sequence, in the bootlegs tells a much better, clearer, and wayyyyyy more interesting story! |
That's all fine and dandy. But what does this have to do with either the reissue campaigns of Zappa or Pink Floyd?
moshkito wrote:
In Frank Zappa's case, what is being re-issued is worthless and minor in the expansion, understanding and explanation of the musical man behind it all! |
And that's not the point behind these reissues! The point is to make the catalog available again as it existed originally (i.e. before Zappa messed with it in the 80s). Without these reissues, all Zappa albums would be unavailable now.
moshkito wrote:
The Zappa Trust is not capable, willing, or interested in letting people see, the rest of the stuff that is available in there, because all they know is the rock star stuff and the guitar god stuff! ... and the orchestra stuff and the rest of the warmups that were also recorded, will never be heard ... because those folks do not know how to name it, or catalogue it ... and it's not quite the rock radio stuff either! |
Explain to me the existence of ZFT releases like Everything Is Healing Nicely and Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison then. Your assertion that the ZFT is only interested in Zappa the rock star and Zappa the guitar god is plain false. Their posthumous releases encompass all aspects of Zappa's work. Including the orchestra stuff and whatever you mean by "warmups".
moshkito wrote:
It's almost like saying that a new found Mozart or Stravinsky is going to change the course of the world of music and where it is going ... the sun still comes up and so does the moon! |
I don't see any connection between this and anything I said. I was talking about reissuing previously released material so that it's still available to people in 2012. I wasn't talking about new music at all.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18697
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Posted: November 13 2012 at 10:58 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
These reissues are different from the ones that you see from artists like Pink Floyd. There are two reasons for this reissue campaign: First, the entire had been out of print for some time, so people who are new to Zappa wouldn't have had a chance to hear his music otherwise. And second, these reissues removed all the ill-advised modifications Zappa made to his albums in the 80s and 90s, like rerecording rhythm tracks and slapping tons of digital reverb on anything. I understand your problems with the "reissue craze" of certain artists, but in this case it was absolutely necessary. |
You sure?
I had 18 versions of Echoes!
16 versions of Atom Heart Mother!
12 versions of One of These Days!
At least 6 versions of Astronomy Domine!
And the bootlegs show you why and how Pink Floyd grew ... up to and including the sound effects thing, Which kinda shows you that in the early days, the sound effects PROBABLY were used in between songs to help setup the new effects that they needed ... for the next piece. By the time DSOTM came out, a lot of the effects that were used were already in sync by the main board, which also controlled some of the effects used ... !!! You can not get this idea from their albums ... at all!!!!! But the sequence, in the bootlegs tells a much better, clearer, and wayyyyyy more interesting story!
In Frank Zappa's case, what is being re-issued is worthless and minor in the expansion, understanding and explanation of the musical man behind it all! The Zappa Trust is not capable, willing, or interested in letting people see, the rest of the stuff that is available in there, because all they know is the rock star stuff and the guitar god stuff! ... and the orchestra stuff and the rest of the warmups that were also recorded, will never be heard ... because those folks do not know how to name it, or catalogue it ... and it's not quite the rock radio stuff either!
It's almost like saying that a new found Mozart or Stravinsky is going to change the course of the world of music and where it is going ... the sun still comes up and so does the moon!
Edited by moshkito - November 13 2012 at 11:37
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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dunwich
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 04 2011
Location: Melbourne, AUS
Status: Offline
Points: 36
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Posted: November 12 2012 at 00:15 |
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Yeah I'm more a fan of this so I can grab the albums that had become so hard to find in Aus recently, and now at a reasonably cheaper cost, as opposed to the King Crimson masters which make things uber gorgeous. I got Ship Arriving To Late To Save A Drowning Witch today for $17 as opposed to the usual $25+ I'd been finding them...which when you a Zappaphile, adds up over the albums to be a metric f***ton of money.
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 11 2012 at 12:59 |
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These reissues are different from the ones that you see from artists like Pink Floyd. There are two reasons for this reissue campaign: First, the entire had been out of print for some time, so people who are new to Zappa wouldn't have had a chance to hear his music otherwise. And second, these reissues removed all the ill-advised modifications Zappa made to his albums in the 80s and 90s, like rerecording rhythm tracks and slapping tons of digital reverb on anything. I understand your problems with the "reissue craze" of certain artists, but in this case it was absolutely necessary.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18697
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Posted: November 11 2012 at 12:34 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
I've bought so many Zappa reissues I am done for now. Oh a side note if you don't have Baby Snakes you should get a copy :)
Some people say it lives in a tiny hole.... |
Same.
All in all, though, I have never thought that the music remastered, anywhere, by anyone, has been better than what I heard inside my head. I have yet to find that one, and I think that Godot is hiding somewhere out there.
I live for the visuals that the music have, and as such, these do change, but in general they are similar ... one instrument 5ft from me with reverb, instead of 100ft without reverb, but with compression and masterreverberation, does not change the visual that much ... it might if it was a lawnmower going from the left ear to the right ear ... but it coming towards me? ... hmmmm !!!!!
All in all, so far, there has not been anything that was worth picking up that was any different to me.
But it was NICE, and WORTH it, to finally get the stuff that I was missing and such ... remastered or not.
Between you and I, I have become totally tired, and sick and tired, and disgusted, with the waste of time and money in some of these "remasters". I can handle a live concert getting cleaned up ... for example ... so that now we can hear it better, and not have it sound like the bootlegs did in those old days ... but I don't see Pink Floyd going over 50 very famous bootlegs ... and the fact that one ear in specific forced them to show the original material that would have been the next album that was NOT. And I do not see the worth of hearing 50 Rolling Stones boots. But there were 50 Led Zeppelin bootlegs worth listening to ... and Jimmy made sure he messed them up good to confuse you with "How The West Was Won".
The only reissues I would want to hear again? The old Grateful Dead jams ... because they were one of the most important things in the early psychedelia that led to "progressive" ... many think that they were too stoned and that the players weren't good enough to do anything during those jams, and that would be incorrect for the most part.
The rest? ...
There is better music out there, though I would have to state that the biggest issue with the Zappa Trust is not the music itself ... it is that they are stuck on the guitar God thing, and they do not know music from their holes, and in the end, the stuff that is in the vaults they do not know how to classify, and would show that Frank was one of the greatest composers of music in American history ... that out of those long pieces, many songs came up and out of it. But we, in America, have no music taste ... and the lady in charge is a rock'n'roller, and was married to a guitar God, not a musician that composed music! And sadly, the son has become the ultimate garage band ... getting blown away by people that really love music, instead of merely playing the notes!
Sorry ... as much as I love the music by this person, it's hard to appreciate the continuous re-releases of everything ... how many different versions of tres culos do we need?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 17:08 |
darkshade wrote:
I know, though someone on the Zappateers forum said the new one is mastered a little better (maybe louder) than the old one. Also, even though they said it's the same, another person at Zappateers said the We're Only In It For The Money is slightly different. |
I don't know about the people at Zappateers, but as the back cover clearly indicates, these discs use the exact same masters as the old discs. They're digitally identical.
darkshade wrote:
Roxy is my long-term favorite FZ album, so I don't mind owning another copy, at least for the sake of an organized Zappa collection. |
Fair enough.
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 12:27 |
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I've bought so many Zappa reissues I am done for now. Oh a side note if you don't have Baby Snakes you should get a copy :)
Some people say it lives in a tiny hole....
Edited by Slartibartfast - November 10 2012 at 12:28
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darkshade
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 11:29 |
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I know, though someone on the Zappateers forum said the new one is mastered a little better (maybe louder) than the old one. Also, even though they said it's the same, another person at Zappateers said the We're Only In It For The Money is slightly different. Roxy is my long-term favorite FZ album, so I don't mind owning another copy, at least for the sake of an organized Zappa collection.
Edited by darkshade - November 10 2012 at 11:36
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 03:47 |
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Well, Roxy & Elsewhere is identical to the old CD.
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darkshade
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 20:51 |
The 2012 reissued Sleep Dirt amazed me so much I ordered 4
more FZ reissues on Amazon (Hot Rats, Chunga’s Revenge, Roxy & Elsewhere,
and One Size Fits All), and even stopped by my record store and picked up Over-Nite
Sensation. Let me tell you, other fans who’ve reviewed these new reissued
albums are NOT exaggerating at how good they sound. I listened to O-NS, then
listened to each track one by one, comparing each to the older version I have,
and I now think the old version sounds so weak and flat. The new reissued
Over-Nite Sensation (which is from the original analog source) sounds full,
warm, with lots of punch from the drums, and the bass can really be felt. I can’t
listen to the old version again. I can’t wait until more of the “new” Zappa
albums arrive!!!
Edited by darkshade - November 08 2012 at 20:53
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: November 07 2012 at 13:02 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
These reissues were needed for a long time, and it's great to see they're finally here. Among the highlights:
- Chunga's Revenge: It's unbelievable just how much reverb the old CD was soaked in. "Transylvania Boogie" and "The Nancy & Mary Music" were almost unintelligible. Now everything's dry and crystal clear.
- Fillmore East - June 1971: Apart from removes the tons of digital
reverb that were plastered all over the old CD, this also (finally)
restores "Willie the Pimp, Pt. 2", which has never been on CD before.
- Sleep Dirt: No vocals, no drum overdubs by Chad Wackerman. I never had a huge issue with the vocals, but I'm extremely glad that the drums are back to original. Hopefully more people will start appreciating this excellent album now that the original version is available.
- Sheik Yerbouti: I never had the Rykodisc CD, but I heard it was terrible and cut short "I'm So Cute".
- You Are What You Is: The 1995 Rykodisc issue had intolerable sound problems that even bothered decidedly non-audiophiles. It was fixed in 1998, but it was difficult to find out if a disc was the broken one or the fixed one just by looking at the case. Plus, this reissue finally restores the entire guitar solo in "Dumb All Over" and has a much fuller mix.
- Plus, a lot of the other reissues just sound plain better. I'm especially enamored with the new Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Joe's Garage.
Sadly, in some cases reverting back to the vinyl mix means that content is lost. As much as appreciate the fact that Weasels Ripped My Flesh now doesn't sound like total crap, it also cuts half of "Didja Get Any Onya?", which was incidentally my favorite part of the whole album. And don't even get me started on the lack of piano in Hot Rats' "Little Umbrellas".
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Hmm...perhaps You Are and Shiek should be added to my list...
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: November 07 2012 at 12:11 |
WOWIE ZOWIE! Sleep Dirt blew me away. I have heard all the songs
that are on Lather, but to hear them packaged like this together is great. I
had listened to the vocals-version of SD once or twice 6 years ago when I first
got into Zappa, but that’s it. I forgot how jazzy this album is, probably his
jazziest album. This was like listening to a brand new Zappa album, something I
haven’t experienced in some time. I
still think Lather is FZ’s magnum opus, but there are worthwhile things here
besides these songs being together. The mix is crystal clear, extended versions
of some songs, and you get the title track which isn’t on Lather. This album is
also contains rare appearances of acoustic guitar and acoustic bass on most of
these tunes. GET THIS ONE!!!
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
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Posted: November 07 2012 at 09:46 |
These reissues were needed for a long time, and it's great to see they're finally here. Among the highlights: - Chunga's Revenge: It's unbelievable just how much reverb the old CD was soaked in. "Transylvania Boogie" and "The Nancy & Mary Music" were almost unintelligible. Now everything's dry and crystal clear.
- Fillmore East - June 1971: Apart from removes the tons of digital
reverb that were plastered all over the old CD, this also (finally)
restores "Willie the Pimp, Pt. 2", which has never been on CD before.
- Sleep Dirt: No vocals, no drum overdubs by Chad Wackerman. I never had a huge issue with the vocals, but I'm extremely glad that the drums are back to original. Hopefully more people will start appreciating this excellent album now that the original version is available.
- Sheik Yerbouti: I never had the Rykodisc CD, but I heard it was terrible and cut short "I'm So Cute".
- You Are What You Is: The 1995 Rykodisc issue had intolerable sound problems that even bothered decidedly non-audiophiles. It was fixed in 1998, but it was difficult to find out if a disc was the broken one or the fixed one just by looking at the case. Plus, this reissue finally restores the entire guitar solo in "Dumb All Over" and has a much fuller mix.
- Plus, a lot of the other reissues just sound plain better. I'm especially enamored with the new Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Joe's Garage.
Sadly, in some cases reverting back to the vinyl mix means that content is lost. As much as appreciate the fact that Weasels Ripped My Flesh now doesn't sound like total crap, it also cuts half of "Didja Get Any Onya?", which was incidentally my favorite part of the whole album. And don't even get me started on the lack of piano in Hot Rats' "Little Umbrellas".
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772
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Posted: November 07 2012 at 01:09 |
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I picked up the reissue of Sheik Yerbouti a few weeks back, sounds good to me.
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The Frank Zappa 2012 Re-Issues
