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terryl 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: Thailand
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Points: 183
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 Posted: July 13 2015 at 00:11 |
 t d wombat wrote:
I can understand why a Christian might find this stuff inspired but a non believer? Why on earth would a non believer, such as myself, want to listen to someone waffling on about a belief system that he finds inherently naff ?
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I am a non-believer in a Buddhist country, not an atheist nor a non-Christian. I like many of his stuff, with "?" being my desert island disc, but frankly the trinity of One, ? and Sola Scriptura is just excellent. Not because the main content is his Christian belief but rather that these are beautiful music, very memorable melodies, great complex instrumentation, brilliant and at times emotional vocals.
I don't care much about lyrics, except when they are exceptionally good or bad. In the case of these previously mentioned albums, they are very, very good. Did I find the lyrics especially in "?" and Sola Scriptura like reading a gripping book, with intriguing beginning, intense middle act, and satisfying resolution at the end. In the two Testimony albums, I remember some praisings, which I can live without, but still it is with very good music.
Unfortunately some of his more recent stuff has lost similar qualities that made "?", One, or Sola Scriptura worked very well.
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And who are we to justify the right in all we do
Until we seek, until we find Ammonia Avenue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmJ39j58W0
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infocat
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Points: 4671
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Posted: July 13 2015 at 00:08 |
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Maiden's NotB is about a dream, not reality.
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Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 23:53 |
t d wombat wrote:
I can understand why a Christian might find this stuff inspired but a non believer ? Why on earth would a non believer, such as myself, want to listen to someone waffling on about a belief system that he finds inherently naff ? Fantasy lyrics of a fictional kind, OK but this is not presented as fiction, it is presented as fact. Me I find old Yhwh to be an utterly unadmirable figure. Of course that doesn't stop the believers from thinking otherwise and I have no problem with that at all, not that they give a damn what I think and why should they ?
For mine, lyrics are an inherent part of the music and if I find the lyrics utterly disagreeable then nope, I don't want to listen. Otoh, while the only post saved Morse I have listened to is part of One, lyrics aside it didn't do much for me.
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As well as in God, I don't believe in Devil, so why should I like Iron Maiden's 666 the number of the beast? And what about George Harrison's mantras? Behind Morse's lyrics there are "feelings" in a general sense, and feelings are what the artists usually try to communicate with their arts. There are feelings and messages also in instrumentals. Sometimes a track title is enough. It depends on how deep is the message. This is the main difference with pop and dance music.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Pastmaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2015
Location: Spiderwood Farm
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Points: 1774
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 17:39 |
^Completely agree. 
The Dark Elf wrote:
I don't believe in Neal Morse. He is a remnant of ancient tribal cult worship. |
This. 
Edited by Pastmaster - July 12 2015 at 17:40
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t d wombat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 504
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 17:24 |
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I can understand why a Christian might find this stuff inspired but a non believer ? Why on earth would a non believer, such as myself, want to listen to someone waffling on about a belief system that he finds inherently naff ? Fantasy lyrics of a fictional kind, OK but this is not presented as fiction, it is presented as fact. Me I find old Yhwh to be an utterly unadmirable figure. Of course that doesn't stop the believers from thinking otherwise and I have no problem with that at all, not that they give a damn what I think and why should they ?
For mine, lyrics are an inherent part of the music and if I find the lyrics utterly disagreeable then nope, I don't want to listen. Otoh, while the only post saved Morse I have listened to is part of One, lyrics aside it didn't do much for me.
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Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx
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miamiscot
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Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
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Points: 3635
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 15:37 |
I honestly believe Neal's conversion was the best thing that could have happened to him - spiritually and musically. Before that he wrote some nice stuff (see Spock's Beard V and Transatlantic Bridge Across Forever) but all his best work came after: Testimony, One, ? and Sola Scriptura are all among the finest albums ever recorded. And this is, in my opinion, in no small part because he had purpose. He had a destiny. Those records (whether you're a Christian or not) are inspired works. Yes, I'm a huge fan. That in no way diminishes what he has accomplished.
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King Manuel
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 01:47 |
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I am a non-believer and I enjoy NM, I don't get put off by the lyrics mainly because I am not a big "lyrics person" anyway. Even on a lot of my favourite albums that I have listen to for years I wouldn't be able to really tell you what the lyrics are about. For me its the music and the vocals are just like an instrument for me. So I have no problem with Mr Morse and his preaching's although they do not reflect my world view the least. Another Christian artist I enjoy a lot is Wovenhand. Just love the music and the way David Eugene Edwards sings.
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Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus
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Progosopher
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Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 18:48 |
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I just acquired a copy of Testimony Two and have found myself enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would. I have no problem with him singing about his faith. I mean, if Steve Hillage can chant Om Nama Shivaya why can't Neal sing about finding Jesus? As a scholar in religions, I have developed a very open mind about such things. Many years ago I had a distinctly negative opinion on Christianity but that has mellowed over time. The difference for me is that I learned there is more to it than the hypocrisies I saw and still see among some of its adherents. Some, not all. In the case of Neal Morse, it is about the music more than anything else for me, and I have not tired of him yet despite the predictabilities and limitations many have mentioned. And it is good to hear someone truly inspired in a positive sense, which I believe him to be. I have grown tired of cynicism. As an artist, he writes about what is important to him and he is very clear about what that is. Nobody is making anyone listen to it if they don't want, and there are plenty of other options available.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Lowend
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 09 2015
Location: Denver,Pa USA
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Points: 38
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 15:28 |
dr wu23 wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I don't mind the Christian lyrics. I do mind that Neal's lyrics are cliché. I can tune out the lyrics if the music mesmerized me. The deal breaker for me is- Each time I audition one of Neal's albums, I get excited about the music only to find myself bored after 5-10 minutes. Like an earlier poster said, " I can't put my finger on what's wrong with the music." So I put Spock's Bread V on and enjoy. Another thing- I wish Neal didn't sing lead on so many Transatlantic songs. |
This...^ I can't say I care much for his post Spocks' Beard music....and V is my go to for them. |
V is one of my favorite releases too. I do like Spock's Beard with and without Neal. Just as I like Neal with or withpout Spock's Beard. Different perspectives on this are very interesting.I don't see the cliche you talk about and I don't feel the "what's wrong with the music". I do appreciate the feedback, though. If we all agreed on everything we'd have nothing to discuss. This is what makes music so interesting.
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Lost in trance of dances, as rhythm takes another turn
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 14:56 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I don't mind the Christian lyrics. I do mind that Neal's lyrics are cliché. I can tune out the lyrics if the music mesmerized me. The deal breaker for me is- Each time I audition one of Neal's albums, I get excited about the music only to find myself bored after 5-10 minutes. Like an earlier poster said, " I can't put my finger on what's wrong with the music." So I put Spock's Bread V on and enjoy. Another thing- I wish Neal didn't sing lead on so many Transatlantic songs. |
This...^ I can't say I care much for his post Spocks' Beard music....and V is my go to for them.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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omphaloskepsis
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Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 10:49 |
I don't mind the Christian lyrics. I do mind that Neal's lyrics are cliché. I can tune out the lyrics if the music mesmerized me. The deal breaker for me is- Each time I audition one of Neal's albums, I get excited about the music only to find myself bored after 5-10 minutes. Like an earlier poster said, " I can't put my finger on what's wrong with the music." So I put Spock's Bread V on and enjoy. Another thing- I wish Neal didn't sing lead on so many Transatlantic songs.
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san0648
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Joined: July 11 2015
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 10:22 |
I love Morse. I'm an atheist. It's not the religious/preachy stuff that bothers me, but the fact that his lyrics are pretty much only christian, makes me want time away. It's not the subject matter, its just the lack of other subjects. It bothers me a little when artists pretty much sing about only one or two types of subjects in their songs.
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SteveG
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 10:02 |
Sorry, but Morse is like a broken record to me. Too repetitive in his lyrical themes. I have nothing against a pro God/religious/worship or whatever song, but not all the time. Benedictus by the Strawbs would be my favorite of this type of material, but Dave Cousins quickly moved on after this opening track from the album Grave New World.
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Manuel
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 09:34 |
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I think Neal Morse is a very prolific composer, but must of his music follows the same formula. Even though is quite intricate and very well orchestrated, you can almost predict the changes he is going to make, the direction the music will take, and all the endings of his long pieces have pretty much the same, making it quite repetitive and after a while, not very much entertaining. I don't want to criticize him, I think he is a great man and a very talented musician, and I don't mind his Christian views and opinions (I have my own and I know it takes some courage to come out and express them the way he does), but at the same time, his music has become quite stagnant and not quite innovative.
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Evolver
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:44 |
For the most part, I'm not put off by Morse's preachiness in his lyric. What gets me is that this artist too frequently resorts to the standard evangelist words, phrases, and verbal imagery instead of coming up with something refreshing, or, dare I say, inspirational. His music can be brilliant at times. His words don't elevate to the same level.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:31 |
I'm not really bothered by Morse's lyrics. He has a great voice, composes excellent material, is a great showman, is quite accomplished on every instrument he touches - what's not to like ? He plays tritones - why isn't he banished ??  I don't understand how some folks are so irritated by religious themed lyrics - they are but one person's view/perception. Good luck to those who've discovered a higher 'self' by divine profoundness.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:03 |
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I don't believe in Neal Morse. He is a remnant of ancient tribal cult worship.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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AlanB
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 06:11 |
What Moogtron III said. Though I also have some sympathy with those who've said that his music can get a bit repetitive. I think his best work was the One, ? and Sola albums. Much of what came after that hasn't really hit the heights of those three albums for me (though still pretty good).
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Moogtron III
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 05:32 |
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Being a Christian myself, obviously I have no problems with his lyrics.
Nor with his music BTW.
To be honest: I avoid most music with Christian lyrics because the music doesn't appeal to me at all.
Neal Morse's music is a positive exception.
Edited by Moogtron III - July 11 2015 at 05:33
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rdtprog
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 04:58 |
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We can deny his songwriter skill and his passion for true symphonic prog rock, as for his religious lyrics, they have a impact on his music, because to me the lyrics are part of the whole music and the meaning of those lyrics have also a impact on my appreciation of his music. As time goes by, i have realize that there is something missing in his music that i can't put my fingers on, probably a sense of "deja-vu" and that i lose patience listening to 20 minutes epic, while i am still seduce by this kind of music. Fortunately, i listen to other genre of Prog Rock music and will still keep a eye on Morse's work, but not with the same enthusiasm i had with his first albums.
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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Neal Morse - An Agnostic's View
