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Why is Tull's "A Passion Play" rated so low? |
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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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dougmcauliffe ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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It’s boring and dull
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Barbu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30855 |
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Saturday, May 21, 1994. A bunch of friends drove to the big city for some action and a good time. The next morning we went downtown, direction 'the big music shop' (berri-uqam). At the time I was familiar with only two Tull records (A little Light Music & Thick as a Brick), I was enjoying them both greatly and decided it was a good opportunity to get some more. In less than an hour I spent $500 (a small fortune for me at the time) on a good fifteen Tull studio albums + the 25th anniversary 4 cd box set. Back at the hotel, while some were taking a nap, I pick up A Passion Play on the pile, headed for the bathroom and locked the door. I slowly unwrapped it with trembling hands...maaan - one song/45 minutes, Thick as a Brick part 2 I thought with a sense of trepidation. I put the cd in the discman, sat back comfortably, lit up a cigarette and pressed play: Heartbeat...full band intro with (yuk) saxophone then piano and that strange singing style (hmmm?), full band again and more sax (wtf! where's the damn flute?). I vomited for the first time during 'The Hare' and before the end of side 2 I was sobbing like a baby. ![]() When I came out three quarters of an hour later, my girlfriend gave me a look and said: 'Are you feeling alright? you look rather pale'. 'It's okay', I said, 'everything's right'. Man, it was not since I had the impression that I had just threw five hundred bucks out of the hotel room window. I only hope that they're not all horrible like this, I thought. Around 7:30pm the same day we were all seated in the parterre at the Montréal Olympic Stadium sharing a joint and when the first notes of 'Astronomy Domine' started, that first repulsive A Passion Play experience was just a vague and distant memory. Edited by Barbu - October 03 2019 at 13:13 |
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Man With Hat ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166183 |
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The Story Of The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles I would also give it a 5. I suppose it's not as varied/exciting/ballsy as TAAB, but its every bit as good.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Rednight ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4812 |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I commend you on your bravery and also for coming around to listen again, and to Tull and, obviously, have a fondness for the band. :) Funny the perspectives of other generations, I find it wonderful that there are so many that didn't grow up with it that have discovered it on their own, delved on their own and found what they enjoy, that takes a different kind of interest than it's being handed to you on a silver (well, usually, black) platter over the current airwaves (or netwaves or whatever, these days). |
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Barbu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30855 |
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Barbu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30855 |
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You should get a physical copy and give it a fair chance. Trust me, brother, it's a monument of progressive music and it could become as important to you as is Pawn Hearts. I will always prefer Thick as a Brick but I'll never argue with somebody who's saying that A Passion Play is the better of the two. |
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15454 |
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Why are any exceedlngly challenging masterpieces rated low? Because there seems to be a threshold of tolerance for many who don't have the ambition to accept the challenge of what the album has to offer.
Did the complexities of prog have to stop in 1973 as the peak year? Of course not, but due to the rift in the few that wanted to create these perceived pompous overweening difficult listens and those who were paying the bills by purchasing the music, it seems to have hit a brick wall. 5 star album for me too but i've paid my dues in working my way up to totally getting where the album is going. Yeah, there are some albums that are just bad and complex doesn't necessarily mean good but in the case of "Passion Play," i'm a huge fan. In fact i'm gonna listen to it right now!!!!! |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30341 |
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He was asking why the rating is low not whether anyones opinion is valid. Clearly you don't believe in opinion but the guy who started the thread does. Stop telling people what they should or not think. You are not the thought police. I am fed up with you to be honest. You are a monstrous pain in the butt.
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M27Barney ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Incidentaly. Does a prog album played in a sealed bunker with nobody in that bunker, have a nominal (quantum) rating? I think it does...
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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Why is it rated so low? Because it sucks.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18690 |
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This is where the "definition" of the word ART is a problem. And then, how do we make out who fits and doesn't fit. I tend to look at the complete history of their work ... not just one album, mind you ... before I consider them an artist, and in this sense, yes, JT fits, even if a lot of his music was more radio inclined (even when FM was almost dead in America!!!), than otherwise, and sometimes (this is just me -- but I have not kept up with IA or JT ... there are way too many others out there doing better NOW!), this is not for my tastes ... I have that feeling that because his "concept" albums (PP/Minstrel) originally did not do as well, and the critics did not like it compared to Aqualung, that it took a little out of Ian, enough to come back with songs for the radio ... which got played enough to sell some, but it was not the monster that his early albums had been. Anyone, can make a piece of music ... anyone can paint a picture ... anyone can write a novel ... but doing so consistently is another story ... and this is where I have an issue ... is Stephen King an artist even though I do not care for his material or work? I have to take my "personal" view away ... and this is important ... and then go ... it is better than a lot of pulp fiction, even if a lot of it is ... mostly what appears to be just weird twists and turns to create a story, and further take it somewhere else. So in this sense, a lot of bands, JT included, have to have the appreciation for their ART, even if it is not perfect, and I will tend to be a bit more detailed on new things, and hope that they can also come back strong, so to "fortify" their ability and standing ... the obvious question would be ... as was the case with Mozart ... how many pieces are you going to see, before you realize that this guy is strong and talented? My only concern, again, is that we tend to believe this "top ten" stuff and in effect turn off some listeners to anything else by that artist ... and I don't think that's fair ... I have listened to all the newer stuff by Dream Theater, and although I did not deem it necessary to review ... I'm not going to doubt their ability to put something together, even if it seems a bit duplicated for my tastes ... like saying that you and I do not feel like that about Tchaikovsky or Beethoven beyond the pieces that we know ... in fact, sometimes you can tell right off the bat who is who ... But I am not sure that the "listener" has anything to do with the work itself ... you see ... Stephen King writes off his "movie mind" (for lack of a better description), just as Mozart did off his movie mind (nicely pre-viewed in the well known movie!), just as Huxley kept a diary and track of his "inner" experiences to put together an incredible amount of literature ... to many of these, it is not about the "public" ... maybe their wife/friend and what not, but I doubt that is a whole lot beyond that except on some occasions. The main problem with publicity and the media is that it thinks it has a right to make a decision, and one of these days, as artist is going to hang himself/herself in a concert to make their point ... I am not here to write for you ... and you can not stop me from being myself and instead be your slave! Get fudged! And we're still going to sit there and be sordid and upset that someone had the guts to take us down a step that should have been done earlier ... but that person/artist didn't know any better, as is the case with many of these women out there ... exposing something they are not, and in some cases, trying to be a teenager, when they are no longer one! And no one gets that it's a lie disguised in publicity! It's just too weird ... and one of the reasons why I have such a disdain for "top ten" ... heck I got to see FM radio come up, and then 6 years later the station was bought by Texaco and a year later ... it was all dots and you could not play blah and blah from 8 to 8 kind of thing and no weird stuff before midnight so we don't "alienate" the audience ... never mind that we're playing the same ten songs each hour! Let's now even consider, discuss what happened to KMET in Los Angeles ... the greatest crime that the FCC has ever committed and allowed to happen ... on a station that was very highly rated because they ... whatevahhhh!!! When you have seen those kinds of things, you remember them ... but too many folks here, have no idea what all this meant, and how it hurt the "progressive scene" that many think DIED in the 80's ... it didn't die ... it just got "censored" as I like to call it, and we bought into it and NEVER EVER said anything about it like good boys and girls! How much sicker is that?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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M27Barney ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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I haven't heard the music, but somehow I think I must obtain a copy and give it a spin..mind you since i'm not a massive fan of the saxophone, perhaps that may put me off... |
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BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8633 |
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I received it as a member of the Columbia Record Club as the "Selection of the Month" when it first came out. I had not been a Tull fan though I liked some of their songs, but Passion Play mesmerized me for days. I couldn't figure out why it was that such an intricately crafted and obviously virtuosic musical experience was so difficult to get into! I finally gave up and have felt the exact same each and every time I have returned to it. The music or engineering or something is too dense and the story is virtually inaccessible because it's so colloquially Brit-lit and, therefore, meaningless to an unsympathetic American like me.
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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dr wu23 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20702 |
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Don't hold back...tell us how you really feel. ![]() |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Rednight ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4812 |
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I haven't heard the music, but somehow I think I must obtain a copy and give it a spin..mind you since i'm not a massive fan of the saxophone, perhaps that may put me off...[/QUOTE] Those sopranino saxophones really livened things up though. |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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dr prog ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2536 |
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It’s not smothered in dated mellotron and full of melody. How can it be rated by proggers?
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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BarryGlibb ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 28 2010 Location: Melbourne, Oz Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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The first time I heard APP it left me cold. The second time I listened to it... I was lukewarm in my affection. The 3rd time I concentrated and actually listened to it I was "coming around". At about 10 listens, I was fully converted. Some 46 years later I still discover instrumental sections in the layers on music that I wasn't aware of before. From dud (initial listenings) to masterpiece (after ~10 listenings). Be patient.
Edited by BarryGlibb - October 04 2019 at 17:58 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 19355 |
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I haven't heard it in a while but it's even more of a hardcore prog album than TAAB. Very dense. CTTE is to TAAB what Tales is to APP imo. It's still good but like tales takes a while to digest.
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