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Why is prog rock always called "snooty"?
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HackettFan View Drop Down
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 00:01
This is what I can’t figure out. Prog has always been an act of rebellion. Musicians who were tired of conventional cookie cutter stuff had the hutzpah to experiment a bit. They rebelled. That’s Rock. They rebelled with ideas. Too brainy a path for some, well tough. Even at that time Album Oriented Rock (AOR), not necessarily Prog, was rebelling against the single. Then reactionary forces swoop in to return to prior norms. Why aren’t they considered snooty or intolerant as opposed to those who favored and fostered the breaking down of genre distinctions. I don’t mind that others don’t like Prog, but not acknowledging that the motivation was to buck the trends is disingenuous.
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Clap well said, and welcome. 
What?
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I am a new member, and joined after much lurking to add to this thread.
 
Yes, in particular, was one of my favorite groups while I was in college. But I was into all kinds of music. The turntable or the cassette deck in the car might have had Carmina Burana, or a Borodin symphony, or even Elton John playing. By the time I left college, the albums I was buying were mostly all "classical" (by which I mean--traditionally orchestral). And while I continued to enjoy traditional forms of all genres in subsequent years, I also leaned decidedly avant garde. Pretentious? Not really--not long after that, I was playing beer-tent polkas in a tuba quartet, surely safe from any claim of pretensiousness, in addition to buying Steve Reich, or Koyanisqaatsi, or the Creative Opportunity Jazz Orchestra (you'll have to look that one up, I suspect).
 
Clearly, prog bands intended their music as art, and just as clearly, their music was received as art and loved for its own sake by many, many listeners. That is all that art requires. Elitism on the artist's part appears when they don't care if any listeners receive their music as art. Elitism on the listener's part appears when they imagine only they are sensitive and sophisticated enough to understand it; they eschew the work of bands that bridge over into actual mass popularity, or those who are unable or unwilling to appreciate prog music as they do. But such elitism can be and often is expressed in all genres of music, even those that are not really even intended as anything more than a simple commercial product. These same discussions happen in the bluegrass world (I live near Appalachia and that is the native musical tongue in these parts), or string quartet music, or film scores, or country music, or beer-tent polka music, or church music, or choral music, or whatever.
 
I am a fan of prog for two reasons: It takes me back to a time when music could hoist me to my feet without the option, and even today the best of it seems to me fresh and compelling. Familiarity has not (yet) robbed it of its effect, at least to my ears. But Old and In The Way has the same effect, as do really well-executed renditions of more than a few polkas. I recently heard a performance of Vaughan Williams's Sea Symphony--surely as elevated in its intention as any prog music--and the audience rose as one at its conclusion. They were not showing off their sophisticated appreciation--they were genuinely moved out of their chairs.
 
The fact that prog is different from classical has no meaning for me. In the end, when music is good, it no longer matters. Music is validated by its effect on both performer and audience. 
 
But if having lofty aims is all takes to be pretentious, then I think they have a point.
 
Rick "raise me up" Denney
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Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Most Prog fans are music snobs. I know I am. But I'm actively seeking help for this.

Heavy doses of LIZZO seems to be working.
Proof that the old adage is right: sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
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Most Prog fans are music snobs. I know I am. But I'm actively seeking help for this.

Heavy doses of LIZZO seems to be working.
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This is one for the social scientists and not me. There's always class conciseness, and it's resulting prejudice, in society that includes views on art. Sometimes the best we can do is ignore it.
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I have very little interest in Classical Music beyond the obvious ones like Holst Planets Suite and Dvorak New Worls Symphony. Top of the classical pop charts stuff I suppose. Keith Emerson has long been my hero and without him I would have precious little interest in classical music. Even if I had time I doubt that I would bother to check it out. Rock Music is so much more interesting and rich in ideas. Drums is the single most important instrument to me that there is. You only need 2 guys , one with a keyboard and one with a drum kit an you can create pretty much anything and more than a massive orchestra can do. ELP didn't even need Lake but a few songs here and there didn't do any harm and maybe dragged a few girlies into their gigs!
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Depends who you talk to, I think. People are conditioned by the radio, by music videos, by you tube to like short, catchy songs. Pop, dance, country are the popular ones. Honestly, ask anyone under 30 about prog rock and you’d likely receive a blank look. Maybe even under 40, IDK. Hence that whole generation (s) wouldn’t call it snooty. Over 40ish (guessing) must be who you mean. To that, it was probably said years ago that prog is ‘better than you‘ music according to my older brother. Perhaps that was a typical statement from DJs at that time?
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Wallace. Clown
Omg, yes. LOL

Ok. So who is grommet?
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Wallace. Clown
Omg, yes. LOL
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Getting back to Dean's post, I've heard a couple of stories where young prog fans were "turned on" to classical music by first listening to albums like Days Of Future Passed and ItCotKC. They went on to advanced studies and when they listed back to the albums that inspired them they were like "what the f*ck is this?" There was little or no relationship at all to the classical music they were studying. 

Edited by SteveG - December 02 2019 at 09:23
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Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 09:18
Wallace. Clown
What?
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Points: 45436 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 09:05
^^ Yes, there's a lot of mullocks and  scurrilous gallimaufry talked by barbigerous bunbury's in the ultracrepidarianist world of prog. Smile
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Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 07:55
It's always been my contention that this whole Prog Rock is Art Music crap is vastly overstated and fundamentally flawed. The relationship between Prog Rock and Classical Music is tenuous, borders on parody and decidedly in one direction only. Listening to the Nice blast out the Intermezzo from the 'Karelia Suite' isn't a patch on listening to all 44 glorious minutes of Sibelius's opus played by a full orchestra. To infer that what Emerson did, or Queen's Bo-Rap was "Classical" is akin to saying Kanye West is Prog because he sampled 21st Century Schizoid Man.

Sure the <insert your favourite symphonic orchestra here> will prostitute themselves releasing orchestral versions of Progressive Rock and Classic Rock tunes (e.g. Queen and Abba) [hey, even first violinists have mortgages to pay] and some jobbing orchestras have even provided orchestral backing to some well known Prog and nearly-Prog bands but neither of those undeniable facts elevates Pop and/or Rock (Prog or otherwise) music to Classical Music status. Musically and musicologically they are poles apart even when the rock tune has many "movements" or borrows heavily from classical music theory.

As much as I dearly love The Enid (and have done since first seeing them back in 1975), they are a rock band.
What?
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

If you want an even better example than ELP of the classical crossover appeal of  prog, then you might want to have a listen to  Robert John Godfrey and The Enid. I just reviewed their first album this morning. Smile
 
Thanks for the link, I know of The Enid by name, only. I will check this out.
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Isn't the "snooty" and pretentious label also hung upon classical music?  Hence the label "long hair music" - 

The expression in English dates from LONG before rock music was even close to being a thing. It references particularly guys like Franz Liszt and Paganini, who were portrayed wearing their hair long. In the 1920s the term came to be applied to people who were generally intellectuals and aesthetes, like classical music enthusiasts, who didn’t have to conform to society’s views on hair length on men.
Wow, talk about your old hippies.
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Isn't the "snooty" and pretentious label also hung upon classical music?  Hence the label "long hair music" - 

The expression in English dates from LONG before rock music was even close to being a thing. It references particularly guys like Franz Liszt and Paganini, who were portrayed wearing their hair long. In the 1920s the term came to be applied to people who were generally intellectuals and aesthetes, like classical music enthusiasts, who didn’t have to conform to society’s views on hair length on men.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

If you want an even better example than ELP of the classical crossover appeal of  prog, then you might want to have a listen to  Robert John Godfrey and The Enid. I just reviewed their first album this morning. Smile
 
 

yep great band that are more classical than rock . Underrated.
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If you want an even better example than ELP of the classical crossover appeal of  prog, then you might want to have a listen to  Robert John Godfrey and The Enid. I just reviewed their first album this morning. Smile
 


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 01 2019 at 07:42
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I can't say I've ever heard anyone call Prog_Rock "snooty", but I'm sure there are some classical music buffs who snootily dismiss Prog-Rock or any other kind of Rock as not worth listening to. Smile
I know the type you mean, but don't go by that stereotype. Remember ELP were  also known as "Classical Rock" for a reason! In a later interview, with pride, Carl Palmer credits the band with turning a whole bunch of people on to classical music.
          Myself, I discovered classical music the same time I discovered progressive rock, and wouldn't want to give up either!
           I read a recent article about famous symphony conductor Leonard Slatkin, and he has nothing but praise for ELP and says he has always loved their music.
               If Keith were alive today, he would tell folks that classical music and rock are not mutually exclusive. In an interview he did make, he called classical music "his Heritage".


Edited by presdoug - December 01 2019 at 05:56
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