Loudersound's Ten Essential 80s Prog albums

Marillion,Rush,Yes

Logan wrote: I was rather surprised at first to see those Asia, Yes and Pink Floyd albums listed in the list as I had not thought of those as generally highly regarded (or the ELP actually, never heard it myself, and AWBH...). I would rather things like Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Present, Shub-Niggurath, Eskaton, Dun, Swans for Children of God (if it counts), Thinking Plague, Cardiacs, Jean-Paul Prat, Talk Talk, Kate Bush if it counts... Of course not only does it depend on familiarity and interest (and those choices are one's guy's opinion in an article who clearly has very different tastes to mine, thought at first it might have been a group of contributors to the publication), but also one how one defines Prog. I think many would sooner see that Asia album as AOR and pop-rock than progressive rock, and as more related to prog via personnel than the music itself being of a progressive nature. I'm no expert by any means on the kinds of music in the poll...

I skewed lazy and went with the choices in the poll. I think Clutching at Straws is much better than Misplaced Childhood.

I'd sooner revise my list to include Tangerine Dream, Kenso and Goblin, but it was an absolutely bonkers day at work yesterday.

I voted for that Marillion too even though I prefer Clutching At Straws. Is it much better? I can't say for sure but I've listened to it more and it grew on me more. Clutching took quite a while for me to get into when I first heard it back in the early 90s.I think M.C. is more immediately accessible while C.A.S. is more of a slow burner.

I still haven't heard Brother Where You Bound even though I own all of the 74-79 Supertramp albums on cd. Is Brother typically considered to be the best post Hodgson ST album?

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 7 hours 16 minutes ago at 10:14

Logan wrote: I was rather surprised at first to see those Asia, Yes and Pink Floyd albums listed in the list as I had not thought of those as generally highly regarded (or the ELP actually, never heard it myself, and AWBH...). I would rather things like Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Present, Shub-Niggurath, Eskaton, Dun, Swans for Children of God (if it counts), Thinking Plague, Cardiacs, Jean-Paul Prat, Talk Talk, Kate Bush if it counts... Of course not only does it depend on familiarity and interest (and those choices are one's guy's opinion in an article who clearly has very different tastes to mine, thought at first it might have been a group of contributors to the publication), but also one how one defines Prog. I think many would sooner see that Asia album as AOR and pop-rock than progressive rock, and as more related to prog via personnel than the music itself being of a progressive nature. I'm no expert by any means on the kinds of music in the poll...

Greg,

You know this, but Yes, Pink Floyd and Asia are going to generate far more traffic to their site than Art Zoyd, Cardiacs or Thinking Plague. Prog is not Loudersound's primary genre they cover. They have people who visit their site who are not big time Prog fans, but have heard of Asia's debut album or Yes's 90125 and remember them as being pretty good albums.

I'm going to take a moment to defend Asia and 90125. Outside of the hardcore Proggers who seem to hate any artist who sold more than 25 copies of any album that an artist released or in the case of Yes if Trevor Rabin is involved it's trash and not a real Yes album, Asia and 90125 among the general public like those albums and rate them highly.

The problem Asia faced among the hardcore was when they heard Steve Howe, Carl Palmer and John Wetton were involved, they were expecting ( hoping?) for a return of the glory days. A mashup of Yes, meets ELP and KC. But, that debut didn't have any epics. To my ears, however, sonically it has much in common with Yes's Drama, an album that has retrospectively aged quite well and is thought of highly.

There is no Machine Messiah on Asia, which is an awesome track. But, beyond that, is Tempus Fugit, Run Through the Light or Does it Really Happen? any more proggy than Sole Survivor, Time Again or Wildest Dreams? Does it Really Happen has a bass solo. Well, Wildest Dreams has a drum solo. Heat of the Moment, the big hit single off of Asia, in the verse is in 10/4. The middle eight has Howe playing a Koto. The second half of Cutting it Fine has Downes's keyboard instrumental with Palmer adding some snare drumming. Not exactly pop.

As for 90125, it is in my opinion, a smartly made, sophisticated Pop-Rock album in the mould of Synchronicity from the Police. It was never supposed to be a Yes album. It became one when Anderson became involved. There are Prog flourishes found on the album and there is some great playing. I never saw it as an album where Yes sold out. This is not Invisible Touch. I'm thankful for the album as it allowed Yes to continue to play arenas and large outdoor amphitheaters.

That's my take anyway.

Big Sky wrote: Logan wrote: I was rather surprised at first to see those Asia, Yes and Pink Floyd albums listed in the list as I had not thought of those as generally highly regarded (or the ELP actually, never heard it myself, and AWBH...). I would rather things like Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Present, Shub-Niggurath, Eskaton, Dun, Swans for Children of God (if it counts), Thinking Plague, Cardiacs, Jean-Paul Prat, Talk Talk, Kate Bush if it counts... Of course not only does it depend on familiarity and interest (and those choices are one's guy's opinion in an article who clearly has very different tastes to mine, thought at first it might have been a group of contributors to the publication), but also one how one defines Prog. I think many would sooner see that Asia album as AOR and pop-rock than progressive rock, and as more related to prog via personnel than the music itself being of a progressive nature. I'm no expert by any means on the kinds of music in the poll... Greg, You know this, but Yes, Pink Floyd and Asia are going to generate far more traffic to their site than Art Zoyd, Cardiacs or Thinking Plague. Prog is not Loudersound's primary genre they cover. They have people who visit their site who are not big time Prog fans, but have heard of Asia's debut album or Yes's 90125 and remember them as being pretty good albums. I'm going to take a moment to defend Asia and 90125. Outside of the hardcore Proggers who seem to hate any artist who sold more than 25 copies of any album that an artist released or in the case of Yes if Trevor Rabin is involved it's trash and not a real Yes album, Asia and 90125 among the general public like those albums and rate them highly. The problem Asia faced among the hardcore was when they heard Steve Howe, Carl Palmer and John Wetton were involved, they were expecting ( hoping?) for a return of the glory days. A mashup of Yes, meets ELP and KC. But, that debut didn't have any epics. To my ears, however, sonically it has much in common with Yes's Drama, an album that has retrospectively aged quite well and is thought of highly. There is no Machine Messiah on Asia, which is an awesome track. But, beyond that, is Tempus Fugit, Run Through the Light or Does it Really Happen? any more proggy than Sole Survivor, Time Again or Wildest Dreams? Does it Really Happen has a bass solo. Well, Wildest Dreams has a drum solo. Heat of the Moment, the big hit single off of Asia, in the verse is in 10/4. The middle eight has Howe playing a Koto. The second half of Cutting it Fine has Downes's keyboard instrumental with Palmer adding some snare drumming. Not exactly pop. As for 90125, it is in my opinion, a smartly made, sophisticated Pop-Rock album in the mould of Synchronicity from the Police. It was never supposed to be a Yes album. It became one when Anderson became involved. There are Prog flourishes found on the album and there is some great playing. I never saw it as an album where Yes sold out. This is not Invisible Touch. I'm thankful for the album as it allowed Yes to continue to play arenas and large outdoor amphitheaters. That's my take anyway.

Indeed I would not expect that article to cover any of those I mentioned. That would be my personal list, forgot Dead Can Dance, and it is not a best of list. I have some familiarity with this publication and looked into the reviewer (as mentioned earlier).

Here is Nick Shilton's bio (the writer of the article)

Louder Sound wrote: Nick Shilton has written extensively for Prog since its launch in 2009 and prior to that freelanced for various music magazines including Classic Rock. Since 2019 he has also run Kingmaker Publishing, which to date has published two acclaimed biographies of Genesis as well as Marillion keyboardist Mark Kelly’s autobiography, and Kingmaker Management (looking after the careers of various bands including Big Big Train). Nick started his career as a finance lawyer in London and Paris before founding a leading international recruitment business and has previously also run a record label.

And he has written this about his interests:

Nick Shilton wrote: A lot of the music I listen to is by the bands I manage - it's either material that has previously been released or demos that are at various different stages of progress. I also go back to my old tried and trusted favourites, foremost amongst them Asia, Kansas and Toto.

As he contributes to that publication I would expect his interests and coverage to align with it. He has an interest in melodic forms of rock, AOR, Symphonic Prog and Neo-Prog and that is reflected in his list and article for Loudersound. He can like what he likes and that magazine can cover what they like. It is a business concern and the writer is a contributor who comes from a business/ corporate-interest background. Not all of those in the list are well-known. The one I know not at all is World Trade.

Nick Shilton has a muic management company called Kingmaker: https://kingmakermgmt.com/

How much of the list is about traffic and how much of what he knows, likes or wants to publicise, I don't know. I see World Trade is listed as AOR at RYM which aligns with his interests and maybe of many people at that publication.

My biggest issue I have mentioned in my posts here is this part in bold from the article:

If prog ruled the world in the 1970s, then the 80s found it retreating to take stock. But it still produced some classic albums – and these are the 10 best

That's a big claim, and such big claims require some big methodology for me to give the conclusion any validity. I tend to hate such claims. If it had been "These are ten of my favourite albums that I think this readership might appreciate" I would not be so fussed. I'm not that readership, but I still doubt that the majority of it who do know Prog well would agree with the claim. And those who don't know Prog fairly well likely would not know any better. That's not the kind of thing I would expect of a serious journalist or academic but of a hack. It's all too common in entertainment type articles and music forums.

I would not be comfortable making a best of list, but if I was tasked with making a ten significant prog albums of the 80s list, then I would want a methodology that is not based on my tastes. I likely would stick with a more traditional idea of Prog, which I would define, I would look though lots of charts and reviews for research, I would research articles etc. I don't think much research went into the article.

Like I said, I don't care for King Crimson Discipline yet to me that still seems an omission. But then maybe that would not have music appeal to that publication business's audience let alone to the melodic rock oriented and commercially oriented article writer. The music in the article seems based on his taste as well as, I guess, what he thinks the audience will be interested in. Fine, but maybe this lawyer/businessman could be a little more precise, expository, and accurate in his language. I can "object" to that.

As for the worth of those albums, maybe that would have been better for an article by him called, although I tend to dislike this term, "Commonly Underrated Prog Albums of the 80s." I have no issue with people liking them, but when you have albums that I have seen a lot of condescension towards (rightly or wrongly) I would not so much expect to see those dropped in a best list. That's going to get criticism, but then the whole exercise would no matter what. At least that gets clicks and attention and that is important to the publication.

Edited by Logan - 3 hours 21 minutes ago at 14:09

I've been looking for a similar list for 90s prog but can't seem to find one. If anyone finds one let me know and I'll do a poll for that or you can do it yourself.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 26 minutes ago at 17:04