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Loudersound's Ten Essential 80s Prog albums |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 19235 |
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Well, there's no way I could vote for 90125 over ABWH. I suspect those who voted for 90125 and not ABWH have either not heard ABWH or are on this site by accident and are not real prog fans. :p I also voted for Misplaced Childhood and Moving Pictures.
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Enchant X ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 31 2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Marillion,Rush,Yes
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38332 |
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I was rather surprised at first to see those Asia, Yes and Pink Floyd albums listed in the list as I had not thought of those as generally highly regarded (or the ELP actually, never heard it myself, and AWBH...). I would rather things like Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Present, Shub-Niggurath, Eskaton, Dun, Swans for Children of God (if it counts), Thinking Plague, Cardiacs, Jean-Paul Prat, Talk Talk, Kate Bush if it counts... Of course not only does it depend on familiarity and interest (and those choices are one's guy's opinion in an article who clearly has very different tastes to mine, thought at first it might have been a group of contributors to the publication), but also one how one defines Prog. I think many would sooner see that Asia album as AOR and pop-rock than progressive rock, and as more related to prog via personnel than the music itself being of a progressive nature. I'm no expert by any means on the kinds of music in the poll...
Edited by Logan - Yesterday at 08:42 |
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"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
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verslibre ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 19218 |
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I skewed lazy and went with the choices in the poll. I think Clutching at Straws is much better than Misplaced Childhood. I'd sooner revise my list to include Tangerine Dream, Kenso and Goblin, but it was an absolutely bonkers day at work yesterday. |
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38332 |
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I may not be that big on Marillion, but I agree with you. I still went with that Marillion because it's there and seems quite sensible still, and the Rush and an other vote for Discipline (not because I like it actually, but because I think it a sensible one for such a list). |
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"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 19235 |
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I voted for that Marillion too even though I prefer Clutching At Straws. Is it much better? I can't say for sure but I've listened to it more and it grew on me more. Clutching took quite a while for me to get into when I first heard it back in the early 90s.I think M.C. is more immediately accessible while C.A.S. is more of a slow burner.
I still haven't heard Brother Where You Bound even though I own all of the 74-79 Supertramp albums on cd. Is Brother typically considered to be the best post Hodgson ST album? Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - Yesterday at 10:14 |
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Big Sky ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2022 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1024 |
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Barry Robinson ( Classic Album Review) rates Brother Where You Bound quite highly. I remember another Prog reviewer giving Brother good marks, although I can't remember exactly whom ( maybe Scott from The Prog Corner, but don't quote me on that). |
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Big Sky ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2022 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1024 |
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Greg, You know this, but Yes, Pink Floyd and Asia are going to generate far more traffic to their site than Art Zoyd, Cardiacs or Thinking Plague. Prog is not Loudersound's primary genre they cover. They have people who visit their site who are not big time Prog fans, but have heard of Asia's debut album or Yes's 90125 and remember them as being pretty good albums. I'm going to take a moment to defend Asia and 90125. Outside of the hardcore Proggers who seem to hate any artist who sold more than 25 copies of any album that an artist released or in the case of Yes if Trevor Rabin is involved it's trash and not a real Yes album, Asia and 90125 among the general public like those albums and rate them highly. The problem Asia faced among the hardcore was when they heard Steve Howe, Carl Palmer and John Wetton were involved, they were expecting ( hoping?) for a return of the glory days. A mashup of Yes, meets ELP and KC. But, that debut didn't have any epics. To my ears, however, sonically it has much in common with Yes's Drama, an album that has retrospectively aged quite well and is thought of highly. There is no Machine Messiah on Asia, which is an awesome track. But, beyond that, is Tempus Fugit, Run Through the Light or Does it Really Happen? any more proggy than Sole Survivor, Time Again or Wildest Dreams? Does it Really Happen has a bass solo. Well, Wildest Dreams has a drum solo. Heat of the Moment, the big hit single off of Asia, in the verse is in 10/4. The middle eight has Howe playing a Koto. The second half of Cutting it Fine has Downes's keyboard instrumental with Palmer adding some snare drumming. Not exactly pop. As for 90125, it is in my opinion, a smartly made, sophisticated Pop-Rock album in the mould of Synchronicity from the Police. It was never supposed to be a Yes album. It became one when Anderson became involved. There are Prog flourishes found on the album and there is some great playing. I never saw it as an album where Yes sold out. This is not Invisible Touch. I'm thankful for the album as it allowed Yes to continue to play arenas and large outdoor amphitheaters. That's my take anyway. |
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mathman0806 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 06 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6846 |
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Rush, Supertramp, and Marillion got my votes.
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38332 |
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Indeed I would not expect that article to cover any of those I mentioned. That would be my personal list, forgot Dead Can Dance, and it is not a best of list. I have some familiarity with this publication and looked into the reviewer (as mentioned earlier). Here is Nick Shilton's bio (the writer of the article)
And he has written this about his interests:
As he contributes to that publication I would expect his interests and coverage to align with it. He has an interest in melodic forms of rock, AOR, Symphonic Prog and Neo-Prog and that is reflected in his list and article for Loudersound. He can like what he likes and that magazine can cover what they like. It is a business concern and the writer is a contributor who comes from a business/ corporate-interest background. Not all of those in the list are well-known. The one I know not at all is World Trade. Nick Shilton has a muic management company called Kingmaker: https://kingmakermgmt.com/ How much of the list is about traffic and how much of what he knows, likes or wants to publicise, I don't know. I see World Trade is listed as AOR at RYM which aligns with his interests and maybe of many people at that publication. My biggest issue I have mentioned in my posts here is this part in bold from the article:
That's a big claim, and such big claims require some big methodology for me to give the conclusion any validity. I tend to hate such claims. If it had been "These are ten of my favourite albums that I think this readership might appreciate" I would not be so fussed. I'm not that readership, but I still doubt that the majority of it who do know Prog well would agree with the claim. And those who don't know Prog fairly well likely would not know any better. That's not the kind of thing I would expect of a serious journalist or academic but of a hack. It's all too common in entertainment type articles and music forums. I would not be comfortable making a best of list, but if I was tasked with making a ten significant prog albums of the 80s list, then I would want a methodology that is not based on my tastes. I likely would stick with a more traditional idea of Prog, which I would define, I would look though lots of charts and reviews for research, I would research articles etc. I don't think much research went into the article. Like I said, I don't care for King Crimson Discipline yet to me that still seems an omission. But then maybe that would not have music appeal to that publication business's audience let alone to the melodic rock oriented and commercially oriented article writer. The music in the article seems based on his taste as well as, I guess, what he thinks the audience will be interested in. Fine, but maybe this lawyer/businessman could be a little more precise, expository, and accurate in his language. I can "object" to that. As for the worth of those albums, maybe that would have been better for an article by him called, although I tend to dislike this term, "Commonly Underrated Prog Albums of the 80s." I have no issue with people liking them, but when you have albums that I have seen a lot of condescension towards (rightly or wrongly) I would not so much expect to see those dropped in a best list. That's going to get criticism, but then the whole exercise would no matter what. At least that gets clicks and attention and that is important to the publication. Edited by Logan - 23 hours 3 minutes ago at 14:09 |
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"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
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octopus-4 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14798 |
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I love both, but I prefer 90125. I've been at both the tours, also. Brother of Mine is a great mini-epic, there's also an appearance by Vangelis, but 9025 is for me the best non-prog album of YES. I actually loved (and actually played with a cover band) Misplaced Childhood. |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 19235 |
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I've been looking for a similar list for 90s prog but can't seem to find one. If anyone finds one let me know and I'll do a poll for that or you can do it yourself.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 20 hours 8 minutes ago at 17:04 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 19235 |
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Just out of curiosity do you consider Big Generator to be a non-prog album and also what other Yes albums do you consider to be non-prog? |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30064 |
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I started having a serious issue with Barry when he put The Bends at the top of his best albums of the 90's list and then the last video I watched of his was the best of 1970 list which did nothing for me. Although he likes a certain amount of prog I don't think it's his favourite genre (he likes Yes a lot though and Pink Floyd). Apart from the longish track on the album I don't find Brother Where You Bound that interesting personally. A lot of the magic walked out the door with Hodgson. Rick Davies was certainly the anchor in the band but it would be a bit like The Beatles carrying on without Macca. IMO. Edited by richardh - 14 hours 39 minutes ago at 22:33 |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30064 |
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I loved Asia's debut album and remember being at a packed Shepherd's Bush Empire back in the 00's when the original line up of the band reformed to play the whole album. It was a perfect AOR/prog crossover album at the time but what gave it an edge was Carl Palmer and Steve Howe playing together for the first time. There was a special energy there and Howe admitted it was very exciting for him when he first got in the studio with Carl. I don't hear that on 90125 where too much sounded restricted and enclosed to my ears. I like the Police as well. They were getting seriously progggy at the time of Synchonicity and then just stopped ( go figure) but I liked Sting's subsequent solo work such as Bring On The Night, Dream Of The Blue Turtles and even the more mainstream hit album Ten Summoner Tales (although none of it is 'prog'). Never liked 80's Yes at all bar Drama or even the AWBH album which did nothing for me ( I will sling me hook now :) ) . In fact all the major seventies prog bands (the so called ''Big Six'') all made horrid records in the 80's to my ears. Asia kind of worked only for one album and then went rotten pretty quickly. I like Drama a lot but don't really regard it as Yes. |
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essexboyinwales ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
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Another I would add is the Dream Theater debut, When Dream And Day Unite😎
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 12748 |
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If I believed this was the Ten Essential 80's Prog albums, there would be no reason to investigate the decade any further. But to me it surely isn't, as most of these don't even belong in the prog category for me (the Neo-Prog I've heard is just "Prog-Related" to my ears). It's actually the least interesting proglist I've ever seen. I know that the Rush album is solid, but I'm not the biggest fan. Placing A Momentary Lapse of Reason in the top ten for a whole decade of Prog, means that you simply haven't heard enough relevant music to boldly claim that "This is the Ten Best". I quessing Nick Shilton's "old school", and haven't ever considered looking beyond the Anglosphere to find out it there's maybe more exciting "Prog" out there than It Bites.
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20565 |
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BTW, I think that Loudersound should've listed Floyd's last great album Final Cut, instead of listing that Floyd-travesty Permanent Lapse of Reason (a Gilmour solo album)
BWYB is the only post-Hodgson album (and it's a monster) just like Roger's Eye of the Storm is the only album worth having around. BWYB is a (very) musically-brilliant and politically-angry album (Cold War & Reaganomics) much in the same mould that Floyd's Final Cut was. (the link is David Gilmour, who played on both). Lyrics-depth-wise, only Crime of the Century rivals with BWYB. Both albums should also be viewed via the videos, for a better understanding of what is meant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N15Bos4O9KI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE_dA479MCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfoyXfcwVU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-4hU43Wowk TBH, I don't miss Roger at all in that album... and sadly, he's not really needed (Gorham & Gilmour played guitars) and Helliwell doesn't even try to sing like Hodgson at all. Hodgson's ITEOTStorm is rather good as well, but the mood is depressing - whereas it's angers that dominate BWYB. The constant whining seems to echoes Roger's mood in FLW with Raining gain, Don't Leave Me Now, etc...). Both albums are quite proggy, IMHO. Soooo, BWYB is Davies' magnum opus, and as such, it's only even more of a shame that he f**ked up with the following Free As A Bird (only the album's name is good and its better track is ironically called An Awful Thing To Waste) . |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 46430 |
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I disagree here. I for one could never get into ABWH. And I've tried a few times. Wasted time... I've always loved 90125. ![]() |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 19235 |
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That's fine as long as you don't consider 90125 a prog album. ![]() |
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