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W. Allen against the current paradigm

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Fercandio46 View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 26 2025 at 15:11
Over time, fashions, customs, and tastes change, both on a personal level and on a social and collective level. Several paradigms have changed; it's cyclical, and every so often one is replaced by another, and a momentary value judgment, without the proper perspective of the passage of time, cannot be valid.

As a child and teenager, Woody Allen was an icon of good cinema, an exponent that intellectual comedy was possible, a prestigious director beyond personal tastes, but over time, the significance of accusations in his personal life, plus the "Me Too" phenomenon, contributed to his either being canceled or falling into oblivion.

Now then...do his most acclaimed works, such as Bananas, Love and Death, Annie Hall, Manhattan, Interiors (the first of his Bergmanian dramas), Stardust Memories, Zelig, Hannah and Her Sisters, The Purple Rose of Cairo, Crimes and Misdemeanors, or Husbands and Wives, lose value?

The phenomenon is even more complex because even among his followers, he has suddenly become tarnished, not because they condemn him for his personal problems, but as if the social imaginary and demands have intruded on us, who also live in this society and consume its media, whether we like it or not.

So, do you still like your own favorite Allen films, do you keep revisiting them, or has your taste changed? Which are your favorites? Can you separate the artist from the person?

I've already mentioned my favorite classics, and among the more recent ones I also like Deconstruction Harry, Midnight in Paris, Magic in the Moonlight, Irrational Man, and Rainy Day in New York.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2025 at 15:55
Regardless of how he is seen, his movies will live on.   It's art vs. artist, and he will always be remembered as a brilliant filmmaker.   

And yes I often enjoy his older work---   Radio Days is a favorite, as well as Crimes & Misdemeanors, Broadway Danny Rose, A Midsummer's Night Sex Comedy, Play it Again Sam, and Hannah.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2025 at 16:21
I have no problem separating the art from the artist. Eg: I'm atheist but that doesn't take anything from the fact that I enjoy Neal Morse's works.

Edited by Hrychu - May 26 2025 at 16:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2025 at 16:45
Agree with David.
Naming faves is near impossible, but my most recent re-watches were Manhattan and Radio Days, and I still loved both of those. I fell out of touch somewhere around "Whatever Works" and haven't seen much of his recent work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2025 at 21:14
I don't have the same fun watching his recent movies, but I have so much fun watching at least 3 times his earlier stuff. I don't care much about all the polemics around his personal life. It doesn't change my perception of the man. He is a good director who loves his work so much that he can't stop making movies, to the point of making the same movies in a different city because his wife wants to travel...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fercandio46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 45 minutes ago at 17:15
Play It Again, Sam, is terrific, one of those films he didn't officially direct...but it's clear he was more than involved in the script. Diane Keaton and Tony Roberts are amazing, and as always, one hilarious situation after another, where there's also a very deep undercurrent, like the absurdity, complexity, and contradiction in relationships. Another example is The Front, about the McCarthy era, directed by Martin Ritt in 1976, but with Allen's full imprint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 35 minutes ago at 17:25
^ PiAS was a play as well.   The actual Bogart quote is "Play it, Sam", but the popularized version is 'Play it again, Sam' which is not in Casablanca

Little fact: the interior of his apartment in S.F. is not the same building as the exterior which is at 15 Fresno St. on the hill in North Beach.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 18 minutes ago at 17:42
Annie Hall with diminishing returns by Zelig. The movies he made after that are either derivative of his older movies and just not good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 12 minutes ago at 17:48
^ Zelig is an underappreciated masterpiece... and Broadway Danny Rose, Hannah and Her Sisters, Radio Days, Crimes & Misdemeanors, all at the top of his game and all post-Zelig.   

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 28 minutes ago at 22:32
Hi,

I don't really know how I feel about his films ...one day things flow really nicely, and then, it feels forced and not funny, and sometimes boring, but there are some bits here and there that are kinda far out, and weird, but you can't help laugh at it, and one of them, I actually had to stop watching, and pause the film, because it was nuts. In the background, and not getting much attention at first is a group of folks, that ... all of a sudden break into a sort of song and dance, as if they were an old fashioned Greek Chorus ... and while a lot of those things are mostly known if you are a theater person, and well versed film person, stuff like that adds a touch that is neat.

The other side of it, is how so many actors want to work with him, and did ... and I'm not sure if it is the freedom to create a character which can be molded by a line, or event in the story, and at that point, I'm not sure that he likes playing the "director" and he allows the actors to flow and almost all of them come off smooth and really good, something that is always far out to watch, specially if you are into theater and film, for the art of it, and the acting, and directing, rather than the entertainment value, at which point I probably would say, that this director is not a good one for you.

But, in the end, he is going to be remembered, as he has been a part of a lot of things in the history of comedy, though not as widely known or appreciated and many times he stayed in the background, unlike some of his films.

He has at least a dozen awards for Best Screenplay, at least 6 or 7 awards for Best Director and even at least one as an actor. Count 4 Academy Awards, 10 Awards in England, 2 Golden Gloves and 1 Grammy. That is not the life of a bad director and writer ... that's a life of incredible ability and talent.

Annie Hall might become his best, as he won Director and Screenplay, but Hannah and Her Sisters and Midnight in Paris also got him awards.

I think his best work is behind him, and he probably should be taking it easy as he is approaching 90 in November ... and maybe have some fun playing a little jazz here and there ... he's well known for that in New York.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 59 minutes ago at 23:01
Back in my student days in the 70's there were two directors whose films you went to see without question - Woody Allen & Mel Brooks.

Looking back now at the WA films now I find them less satisfying as he seems obsessed with being on camera for the majority of his films, and whether it's 'Take the Money and Run', or 'Annie Hall' or whatever it only ever seems to be about showcasing his neuroses.

Edited by Floydoid - 16 hours 58 minutes ago at 23:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 4 minutes ago at 00:56
^ I don't think so--   his casting is excellent and he always gives his co-stars plenty of camera time and good lines.   Besides, sometimes the director/writer will do the best job in a certain role.

Further, in at least his last ten films he is not included in the cast at all.

As for Mel Brooks, the best thing he ever did was Young Frankenstein and it was Gene Wilder who wrote & starred in that film.   Blazing Saddles, High Anxiety, Spaceballs, Silent Movie, Robin Hood:Men in Tights, don't hold up at all.




Edited by Atavachron - 15 hours 2 minutes ago at 00:58
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syzygy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 hours 25 minutes ago at 01:35
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Zelig is an underappreciated masterpiece... and Broadway Danny Rose, Hannah and Her Sisters, Radio Days, Crimes & Misdemeanors, all at the top of his game and all post-Zelig.   



I agree that he continued to make consistently good films for the decade following Zelig (I would add Purple Rose of Cairo to your list), but Bullets Over Broadway was the last one I made a point of seeing when it came out. I have seen a few of his films since then, but nothing has really stuck with me.

Separating the art from the artist is a contentious issue these days, but few things in life are entirely clear cut and Woody Allen's questionable private life doesn't stop me from appreciating his work, any more than Roman Polanski's much more problematic past behaviour prevents me from enjoying Chinatown.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 3 minutes ago at 06:57
I wonder if the Allen fans here are into an Allen-adjacent director named Henry Jaglom. His work spans roughly the same years; he's a tad younger I think. Very prolific. A similar style of filmaking to Woody but perhaps a bit more romantic drama and a bit less obvious punchline humor. If anyone wants to try him, I think his best films were Always, Someone to Love, Venice Venice, Last Summer in the Hamptons, and Deja Vu. But like Woody, everyone's faves will vary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 55 minutes ago at 07:05
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