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Starless View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How are royalties paid to artists?
    Posted: July 22 2010 at 03:48
I accidentally stood on and broke a cd the other day, so I've ordered a replacement from Amazon. This got me thinking - at what stage are royalties paid to artists? I have never worked in and neither do I know anybody who works in the record industry, but my best guess is this:
 
1. Rising star prog band The Cat's Whiskers record their new album, financed by their record label Purrfect Records.
2. Purrfect tell the distributor a new album has been made and the distributor pays for and places an order for let's say 10000 cds with Purrfect.
3. Purrfect then pay for the manufacture of however many the distributor wants, in this case 10000.
4. The distributor then sells his 10000 cds to Amazon (and/or any other retailer).
5. Amazon then sell the cds to us. If any are left unsold they eventually end up in bargain bins, or there may be a sale or return deal with the distributor.
 
The record label get's paid at 2. Is the artist royalty generated at at 4 or 5? If 5 how is it tracked, as the retailer might not sell all their stock?
Of course all this only applies to bands on traditional labels, as bands that sell cds direct from their own websites have a much more direct method of being paid.
Or am I completely wrong?! Can anybody put me striaght?
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 04:18
I would imagine that once the albums in this case CD's hit the stores, the royalty cut would already have been proportioned. I doubt a big retailer has the ability to send unsold items back to the distributor and it would not be the artists fault if a retailer had over stocked.
 
I may well be wrong, but seems to make perfect sense. A very good question though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 04:26
Usually spasmodically and often "get lost in the post". I once took a well known drummer out to dinner, having been told after 25 years in the business of lots of gigs and recordings/ session recordings, he had 600 quid in the bank, he had borrowed his girlfriend's car to come and see me, and his girlfriend paid for their flat. He felt right royally screwed by the business when anticipated cheques don't appear more often as not and he didn't have enough cash to afford a lawyer to sue. I don't believe this was an unusual case.
 
Presume the main case, records/CD issued by record companies and sold by the retailers or web mail order firms. Here, typically (unless there is a sale or return agreement) these are paid by exchange of monies between record company and retailer, based on the amount ordered in. Then the retailer will mark up and add on local purchase/VA tax and sell to theee and me. The money received by the record company then gets split a large number of ways, manufacturing costs, artist royalty (should have been fixed by contract and then depends on the artists and the agreement), composer royalty, profit, advertising, etc. etc. Then artist might expect a quarterly or half yearly cheque with their cut - but record companies are notorius at deducting recording, advertising, and other promotion costs from the artist royalties. Police for instance paid their own recording costs of their first album, and licensed to A&M Records to minimise start-up debt. Many prog and jazz artist have a more modern approach, especially being unsigned to a label, in recording and producing their own CDs and selling at gigs and via the web. One musican told me he and his band could survive and indeed record a follow-up, by selling 5000 copies minimum per annum, since manufacture cost of the CD + package/postage was less than one tenth of the sales price. (The band had been dropped by a record label for failing to sell 50,000 copies minimum of their previous album). Other formats are more difficult, e.g. vinyl release - there is a need for special mastering and manufacturing facilities. MP3 and other digital formats are clearly offered on sale by Apple IPod, Amazon and many others and  numerous indie artists enter into contract to sell single and albums this way - need somebody else to explain the economics here. However, quite a few bands now offer recordings of live performance (e.g Umphrey's Mcgee) through what appears more independent and artist-oriented websites, can we assume monies get paid much more quickly this way.
 
But then being a successful song-writer  is another story - how do you think Dolly Parton's Dollyworld got financed? Another of my friends admitted that he happily surviving as an independent musician on the royalties he got from two international hits, 15 years after their original release dates -  you would recognise the artist's name who had the hits. As an indicator here, it was reckoned Gerry Marsden made a quarter of million sterling in royalties, because 'Ferry Across The Mersey' was on the flipside of the single 'Relax'  recorded by Frankie Goes To Hollywood. Hence the bitching by Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton that Jack Bruce continues to make most money from Cream 40 years later, mainly because of songwriting royalties - but this gripe subsequently didn't stop Clapton from opening his Autobiography compilation with  Bruce/Brown composition......


Edited by Dick Heath - July 22 2010 at 04:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 04:35
Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
As for Clapton's moaning, one would imagine he's not short of a bob or two, particularly by doing his interminable runs of Blues-By-Numbers for middle aged businessmen at the Albert Hall every year. To think he was once hailed as "God" is unbelivable considering how diluted he became after Cream......but Baker I can understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 04:43

As an ex  record label owner...........

There is so many variables here coming into play. You have also forgotten to add the mechanical rights paid to the song/melody writer. A real pain in the bottom and a big cost if you are small record label. This is royalties paid before the album goes to the CD/LP manufacturer. The normal record deal is a net contract where the recording artist is paid four times a year, no matter whatever Amazon sells. Some record companies also pays out royalties only 1-2 a year. On the top of the mechanical rights, some also pays out a advancement on the royalties. Let's say The Cat's Whiskers signs with Purrfect Records on a socalled "1 million quid deal". Purrfect Records pays The Cat's Whiskers 250 000 quid on the day they sign the record deal. Money which is meant to last 12-18 months before the next royalties payment. The rest of the million quid is used on marketing/promotion, tour support, studio recording and manufacturing.

By net contract, I mean for example 10 % of the net income after the manufacturing, promo and marketing, admin cost, legal fees, travel and smashed/scratched up hotel rooms has been paid.      

The record deals are now also changing from net contracts to 360 degrees contracts due to the very diminishing income the record labels are now getting from the record sales. A 360 degrees contract means the usual net contract + that The Cat's Whiskers has to pay the record label a percentage of their gigs, merchandise and other non-record sales incomes. 

I hope this has been an informing post. 

Edit: Sorry, I did not see Dick's post before I posted my own reply.  



 



Edited by toroddfuglesteg - July 22 2010 at 04:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 04:50
Thanks torodd....
Running an indy record label sounds like more trouble than it's worth! BTW The Cat's Whiskers are impeccably behaved nice middle class boys and would never smash up hotel rooms.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 14:03
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

As an ex  record label owner...........


Edit: Sorry, I did not see Dick's post before I posted my own reply.  

 



No need for any apology, good to hear soemthing from inside the indie section. I was writing having talked to many musicians and also having worked in the retail side up until the early 70's - and then knew a few record shop owners very well (until both their businesses died 3 years ago). Taking jazz rock musician Wayne Krantz for an example, for about 10 years did his own thing wrt recording, disc making, publicising and selling his own albums - each with sleeves stating: don't copy this album, you're screwing me directly, since margins and sales were very finely balanced.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 16:03
90% of artists don't get paid for there music. Recorded or otherwise. The only real way to make money from recorded music is to get a damn good publishing deal (all but impossible these days) and join the PRS and get a f**king good radio plugger.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 09:06
This is an interesting article, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10654380
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 14:44
a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

Edited by aapatsos - July 26 2010 at 14:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 02:16
But if you're world-renowned, you can also charge $50 a ticket for a show, so it all balances out. I'm not a fan of major labels either, but if Evan Parker and Peter Brotzmann can survive on $20 a ticket at a small venue in DC, I'm sure everybody can work something out.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:23
I would have thought most artists at the lower end of the world domination scale have day jobs too!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:24
harmonium - thanks for the link, interesting reading Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:42
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
This is true - the artist only gets paid royalties on the initial sale of the cd - they don't get paid royalties again on secondhand sales - just like any other reselling transaction - the Ford Motor Co doesn't get paid again when you buy a used car.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:53

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

They got paid ??? They are the lucky ones, then. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:57
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

This is an interesting article, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10654380
Good article Thumbs Up
 
While it stated that the artist doesn't have to pay back the advance if they fail, it also implied that the artist doesn't get paid any royalties until it is effectively paid back if they succeed - essentially the record label recovers all their costs from record sales (including any advance, PR costs etc.) before paying the artists any more money.
 
Of course for a Prog artists, even signing to a biggish label, a £1 million pound deal is just a dream.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:57
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!
This is true - the artist only gets paid royalties on the initial sale of the cd - they don't get paid royalties again on secondhand sales - just like any other reselling transaction - the Ford Motor Co doesn't get paid again when you buy a used car.


Actually, a year ago or some more I read that there is a tax of 5% applied to all resellings of copyrighted goods, which is collected by the organizations dedicated to collective rights management (or what's their name). I'd have to dig deep to find that article I read, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 05:58
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

a few years ago I heard from a relatively well-placed (worldwide known) Greek metal band that they were getting paid about 1-2 cents per cd sold Pinch from their record company

They got paid ??? They are the lucky ones, then. 


I'll take a guess that was Rotting Christ and Century Media.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 08:40
Originally posted by Starless Starless wrote:

Thanks Chris - very informative. So buying a second hand cd has no detrimental effect on the artist as the royalty has already been paid. Feel better now!


Usually, yes, but an increasing number of bands sell their music more directly these days, bypassing the labels (or operating their own independant one). It's worth bearing that in mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 09:20
Ze peanuts are thrown at ze performing monkeys in zeir cages. Tongue

Edited by Slartibartfast - July 27 2010 at 09:20
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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