Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Jim Garten View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 11:24

Congratulations Ivan

Not only do you win the award for possibly the longest post in ProgArchives history (here have a star -

)

...but by only mentioning Pink Floyd briefly in your argument (and even then, only in passing), this is without doubt the longest off-topic post in ProgArchives history.

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 11:27

Jim Garten wrote:

Congratulations Ivan

Not only do you win the award for possibly the longest post in ProgArchives history (here have a star -

)

...but by only mentioning Pink Floyd briefly in your argument (and even then, only in passing), this is without doubt the longest off-topic post in ProgArchives history.

No Jim, is not an off topic post, is a direct repply to a post by Certified who mentioned different issues rather than Pink Floyd.

He used a lot of space (Almost 50% of the post) to attack other sites Symphonic definitions, bthat he said didn't existed,

Certif1ed wrote:

All I said was that, from the descriptions, I don't understand what the music is supposed to sound like - and that ProgArchives seems to be the only place that actually tries to define it.

I only quoted that sectin and said "Hety they existed, nobody said they were good, but they exist"

I'm not the one who took the thread to the territory of "Symphonic doesn't exist" that was Cert, but you seem not to notice that.

The first 50% of my post is just a quote of Cert's post...But you don't notivce that either.

If you are asked A, you reply about A, he asked about influences mainly Genesis, I replied about influences mainly Genesis.

Ivñan

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 03 2008 at 11:34

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 11:34

Of course, but two wrongs do not a right make - maybe the side debate should have been taken elsewhere.

My fault, perhaps a "

" emoticon should have been added to denote (evidently misplaced) humour; please accept my humble apologies

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 11:37

Jim Garten wrote:

Of course, but two wrongs do not a right make - maybe the side debate should have been taken elsewhere.

My fault, perhaps a "

" emoticon should have been added to denote (evidently misplaced) humour; please accept my humble apologies

Don't worry, I'm honestly exhausted after replying that.

The funny thing and you must have noticed is that there are contradictory posts, one says Pink Floyd is not Prog so it can't be Prog influential and nobody says a word, I say that IMO there are more influential bands than Pink Floyd and there's a scandal.

My good friend David says that ELP is much more influential in Prog than pink Floyd and genesis, and nobody says a word.

Seems I'm forbidden to give an opinion.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 03 2008 at 11:47

The T

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 13:07

I love this website... It's like watching a discussion-talk-show but about interesting stuff!

I think that the original question of the thread doesn't require the band to be influential for prog but for everything. It just says is PF the most influential prog rock band? Of course it is as it's the only really popular one. But is it the most influential for prog-rock artists? In this I really have to side with the opinion that probably their influence is as big (or maybe less so) than the acknowledge prog-flag-bearers like Genesis or Yes. Besides my prog-metal, I have heard tons of prog (with the exception of avant-garde genres) and my own un-cultivated, un-trained ears have told me in several times: "Hey, that reminds me of YEs, that seems like taken directly from Genesis". Even the Flower Kings, who are always erroneously mentioned as a derivative band, sound more like Genesis and Crimson than Yes to me (I may be deaf after all) but not really like PF.

And sorry to all experts around the world but my un-trained ears really tell me that Marillion's first album is Genesis' 16th. And my own un-trained stupid ears tell me that Fish sounds a lot like Peter Gabriel.

Maybe that's why prog-rock is not (thank god) classical music. We don't have to be PHD's in music to enjoy it. Hell, wait. Neither do we have to be for classical!

Why don't we just agree that all music is just a big pile of copy from other music and real-world sounds so we can live in peace??

Let's face it: music is the Xerox art. And those bands who can best disguise the original ink are the ones we usually call the greatest ones.

And Dream Theater is the best. Period. That's a fact. Why? Because I said so. Now counter THIS argument!!

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 13:30

!@#%$!@# Where's that popcorn munching emoticon when you need....

....rumbling through internet stuff......

Ah, there it is

Edited by Angelo - December 03 2008 at 13:49

ISKC Rock Radio
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Posted: December 03 2008 at 13:44

^ Micky ate it

What?

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 13:47

Quick and easy to reply to - NO!

They are influential in music BECAUSE they are the least proggy and most poppy (see DSOTM).

PF most liked band by non proggers, definately......................

Is that what you mean??

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 14:04

The T wrote:

Hey, you will be asked to post the exact second of the exact song in which Fish sounds like Peter Gabriel in a document signed by a public notary.

According to some, you are just guessing and all this is a fantasy in your mind, unless you don't tell us which chord of which Genesis song is being copied.

You can listen Assasin 100 times and feel that it reminds you clearly of Battle for the Epping Forest, but if you don't say which second of the song is identical to which second of Battle, they won't believe you.

Maybe that's why prog-rock is not (thank god) classical music. We don't have to be PHD's in music to enjoy it. Hell, wait. Neither do we have to be for classical!

Amen.

Why don't we just agree that all music is just a big pile of copy from other music and real-world sounds so we can live in peace??

Let's face it: music is the Xerox art. And those bands who can best disguise the original ink are the ones we usually call the greatest ones.

Influence exists since music exists, somebody heard a nice tune and wrote another one inspired in that one, he didn't copied it, he maybe didn't tried to re-arrange a single chord , most surely he just captured the atmosphere or the mood of the original piece, but the influence is there, so obvious for those who want to listen it, probably those with untrained ears will be the first to notice it, because some trained musicians will be counting how many notes are repeated to then decide if it's an influence or you just dreamed.

Others will say, No, he changed a note, so it's not influence

Please open http://www.unifaun-music.com/ and listen the song (will play in auto mode), it's not a copy, but would somebody deny they are influenced by Genesis? Or open the song we have on http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1630 and tell me it's not inspired by Pink Floyd, despite I wouldn't dare to say they copied any particular song?

Some still say this cant be proved.

And Dream Theater is the best. Period. That's a fact. Why? Because I said so. Now counter THIS argument!!

You had to ruin a good post with Dream Theater?

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 03 2008 at 14:19

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 14:29

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Don't change the subject Certif1ed, You said that PROGARCHIVES IS THE ONLY SITE ATTEMPTING A DEFINITION.

That is not the subject. The subject is "Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band, and you asserted that they were not, and that Genesis were more influential.

In fact, it is quite apparent that you have just changed the subject, because you realise that it is impossible to back up your claim, while my claim backs itself up.

This side-issus about Prog Archives being the only site attempting a definition is a back-handed compliment - as I pointed out so thoroughly, the others do not even define it - they simply make weak claims that are easily dismissed as nonsense.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I just proved that's not truth and clearly said I believe our definition is the best, never said their definitions were good JUST DEFINITIONS YOU CLAIMED NEVER EXISTED

You are trying to make people forget you said something false attacking those definitions that nobody said were good.

Not at all - as I said above. Maybe I was too lazy to do more than one Google on the subject - the matter is irrelevant to the topic in hand. The definitions are still rubbish.

You seem to be trying to make people forget that this discussion started out with you making claims using numbers, as if you had some scientific way of validating your claim that Genesis are more influential than Pink Floyd - and you do not. The figure of 40% was just hokum - made up out of thin air. A claim that doesn't exist.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

So you don't care that the Administrators, Collaborators and M@X approved the one we have after one month in the Collaborators section with participation of many of them, and not a word from you, becausethat would had forced you to help.

It's much easier to protest ionce the things are done.

To be honest, I didn't even know it was being done - and why would I help define something I don't think exists - and having read the definitions, I'm even more convinced of it.

Stop making out like this is such a big deal and that I'm so evil for not helping. I'm not paid to do this, and I certainly make contributions to this site when I can - so I think I do my little bit to help.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

So, you have heard Yes, Genesis, ELP, etc for many years and with your musical abbilities you can't attempt a definition while people with less musical knowledge attempt definitions in so many sites as I proved you lines above?

As I said, I do not recognise the term - I do not think that such a thing actually exists - so I can hardly define it if I don't believe in it, can I?

So, we must forget about the 519 (In that moment) Symphonic bands and leave them out with no name and definition?

[/quote]

I really could care an awful lot less - I didn't categorise them as Symphonic, and it won't make the world spin any faster if they are if if they're not - it's just not a big deal.

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Well, I can think of many Neo Prog bands that weren't influenced by Genesis (e.g. Twelfth Night, h era Marillion, The Enid, etc.) - and I do not agree with the claims of Fish sounding like Gabriel, etc., so this is opinion, not fact - and you cannot put a number on it without examples.

Yes, there's a good number of not influenced, but not the great majority.

But you still cannot put a number on it without examples.

I'm not a human calculator nor have the time to check each one of 233 Neo Prog bands to find what influence they have, let me remember this is a work for free, it takes hours of each day for months, and I have to live in th e real world also.

But at the end is better than doing nothing and just complaining you don't agree with weverything.

Woah there, Ivan - YOU attempted to put a number on it - 40%, I believe - and now I question the accuracy of this number, you tell me you're not a human calculator and whine about how hard that task would be.

I'm simply telling you that you cannot put a number on it - and, Hallelujah! you now agree!!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Can you think of specific examples?

I don't claim to be an expert on Prog Metal, but as I said before, i doubt many Prog Metal bands are really and clearly influenced by Pink Floyd or Genesis.

I'm not asking you to be an expert, just for examples - how hard can that be?

If it's so difficult it requires an "expert", then maybe it doesn't actually exist.

A few posts ago The T, a Prog Metal expert has said the Pink Floyd and Genesis influence IS NOT SIGNIFICANT.....Do you also disagree with him?

[/quote]

That does not follow - on the surface it looks like deliberate obfuscation, but I'm willing to believe it's a language issue.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Possibly, but I think unlikely - as I said, I wouldn't want to do the experiment myself, but Floyd are testable - can you provide discrete examples for Genesis?

Why, because you say it?

Not because I say it, but because there are real, testable examples for Floyd - I thought that much was obvious.

A Prog Metal expert has denied this, do you also disagree with him?

[/quote]

More obfuscation - I ask for testable examples (here it's not within the boundaries of Prog Metal), and yet again, you ask if I disagree with The T.

Why should I ask an expert in Prog Metal instead of someone like yourself who is a Genesis expert about Genesis influenced bands?

Of course, the answer could be that you cannot provide testable examples.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

It doesn't really matter what the bands say - the evidence is in the music, not hearsay.

So Unifaun, a band who creates the songs Genesis never did are not influenced because they don't copy a track?, Or Rael who are almost clones, etc.

I didn't even imply that - I'm merely asking for examples.

I'm giving you 4 in the next parragraph.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I will certainly explore that single example - got any more to beat my 5 (I'll give you "Grendel" as a bonus, so you only need 3 more)

Lets see, even when i don't like that approach:

What - you don't like the testable approach - but prefer your opinion, or some kind of romanticised fractionally true version?

I think what's going on here is the power of "Narrativium".

No Certif1ed, I simply don't need to listen carefully to find COPIED sections, but to find influences, you require a bit more of effort that i'm willing to give.

And when that opinion is shared by the vast majority opf the reviewers, you know your perception was accurate.

[/quote]

I'm not talking about exact copies - but it must be identifiable - or it's simply opinion, which can be disagreed with.

Maybe the opinion is only shared because someone pointed out a vague similarity and others said "Oh Yeah..." when they heard it.

What about the little boy who says "Hang on, the Emporer isn't wearing any clothes!"?

You talk to me of not putting effort in, then refuse to put any in yourself - and it took me no effort whatsoever - i just listened to the music and noticed it.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Children of the Sun by Magenta,the whole song is a complete recreaqtion of Genesis and Yes 70's music.
Virgule by Ange, clearly a recreation of 4 men era Genesis
The Healer by Arena, a classical genesis 5 men era inspired track

Could you provide the source songs for verification?

Children of the Sun from Magenta revolutions.

Virgule from the Guet Apens album

The Healer from The Cry by Arena

Ther Watc from Mindscapers by Galadriel (Spain)

Those are the destination, or influenced songs, not the sources - no-one can verify from those alone!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

You don't need to be an expert to discover an album sounds like Genesis or Yes, or that there's an influence, just listen it carefully.

There are some obvious examples where you DO have to listen carefully - the absurd notion that Fish sounds like Gabriel, or that "Script..." is a Genesis clone - I simply do not hear this, so testable examples could calrify it for me - although I am familiar with Genesis' back catalogue fairly intimately, so I doubt it.

This highlights the need for conclusive examples in other areas of music.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

The approach you're suggesting is all in the mind - it's there if you imagine it - but it is not testable to any degree of accuracy. The more familiar you are with Genesis, Yes, or whoever, the more you will hear their influence.

No, it's not in my mind, it's not a cloning but is evident for most people that has reviewed those albums and agrees with me, the first time I heard revolutions by Magenta felt that the Yes and Genesis were present there.

A few days later with the support of the band who sent me unreleased material, I gave a lecture for a group of Progheads and Cesar Inca helped me to organize it...The first question by an average proghead (Not a specially brilliant guy) was..."Hey don't this guys sound like recreating Yes and Genesis?"

It was obvious for them as it's obvious for the members of the site who wrote repeated threads about RETRO PROG, that there is influence from yes and genesis among others that is not quoting bands.

The Fliower Kings are mentioned by everybody as Yes insipred ad they don't clone Yes, but it's evident for all of us that they are inspired and influenced by Yes.

If they are able to find it, then it's not on my mind, the fact you can't perceive it (As you ignored other sites were doing Symphonic Prog definitions) doesn't make it false.

But it's not, oh, what's the word now...? - and hence is open to interpretation. You never know - someone might dare to disagree...

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

This is why further accuracy is required, so that someone who has never heard either can verify it for themselves.

Music is an art, we shouldn't be worrying in verifications.

Then why the fuss over bands like Radiohead, Queen and Metallica, if we don't need to verify?

Music is not simply an art - it is a means of communication, and, like any language, it has syntax and grammar, after a fashion.

In this case, you made a claim using figures, which you asserted as fact.

Here, you are taking a kind of scientific approach - and I have merely called your bluff, and now you're saying that you cannot take a scientific approach, because it's an art - which is a huge cop-out.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

It's simplistic for yo to explain it, but some of us like to listen the music and get our conclusions.

Me included - how else do I get to my conclusions - by looking at the packaging?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

If a band merely cites another as influence, it's a bit like the scene in Spinal Tap, where Nigel Tufnel states that he's influenced by Mozart and Bach...

Spinal tap is a joke and you know it Cert, talk me about real bands and about what the musicians based their music in.

But you're ignoring the point I'm making, which is not about Spinal Tap at all.

I honestly ignore everything about Spinal Tap, it's not shown in Perú, but whatever it is, we are talking of Proffesional musicians claiming influences that exist, not about actors making a pariody about musicians, no matter how good the parody is

That's still overlooking the valid point I'm making - don't get sidetracked by red herrings in such a manner!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Of course I'm not going to list every one I could think of - what a waste of time that would be.

I wouldn't even attempt it, because it would be futile, youwould say you cann't listen them because we don't link it to a determined second in a determined song..

If we can't, then the whole claim you're making is moot.

Whereas, I could and did - so my argument stands. It is TESTABLE, not necessarily right. I only stand by it as right because the reverse has not been proved through testable examples.

No is not moot, we can listen atmospheres, moods, structures that are similar to other bands without quoting an exac parragraph....Again, you search for copies, we search for influences.

But then it's just your word against mine.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Specific examples?

Not just bands, but songs, and the songs cited, otherwise that's just a claim. Anyone can make a list - that is not evidence.

Weren't these bands also influenced by Pink Floyd?

That's not the way I search for influences, i'm not trying to find musical quotes or cloned passages, only an influence.

That's not the question I asked - just like the "definitions", you're side-stepping. Typical bloody lawyer

No, I'm not side stepping, I'm just giving my truth without giving you evidence that:

1.- Don't have the time to search

2.- I believe it's absurd to search for copies, the interesting issue is to search for influences.

OR DO YOU SAY THAT INFLUENCE MEANS COPYING EXACTLY ONE PART OF THE MUSIC FROM ANOTHER BAND EXCLUSIVELY?

No, I'm saying that finding examples removes doubt, and the more easily testable they are, the better the evidence of influence is - otherwise it's one opinion against another.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

But according to you, "this is not testable" we are all wrong and imagining things...Please Certif1ed, isn't this a bit arrogant?

Are we all wrong and that Genesis influence is ion our imagination because according to you "Is not testable?"

No, it's just that anyone could listen to the music and disagree, whereas if the examples are concrete, there is less doubt.

If you're going to throw numbers like 40% around, don't be surprised if someone questions that number.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I'm not making a scientific experiment that has to be repeated to be valid, i'm talking about influence of one band over another, influence that doen't need to be a copy or a clone song, influence can go from subtle to evident, from cloning to inspired, iof you can't believe in that, then you are not an artist but a theoric of art who needs facts and factors to give an opinion.

Whatever - I'm not interested in discussing my personal disposition - but if you can't actually prove something you've claimed, what's the point in making the claim?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[

This is not a court, this is art, I thought you who claims to be an artist would know the difference between both concepts better.

But again it's noty so far from truth, an artist can go to a court with a song that ressenmbles the music of his band (No number of chords is necessary) and claim that he's being copied and the Judge with all his subjectivity will decide.

If a judge with probably no musical education can find a copy, shouldn't a musician like you claim you are be able to listen a subtle or evident influence?

Iván

Again, I'm not going to go into my qualifications or disposition - but yes, I could detect - or even imagine - subtle influences easily enough - but it would not be impossible for someone else to deny their existence by conducing the same listening experiment, and it would not be impossible for one Judge to decide one way, and another to decide something different over the same piece of music - so I ask again, what's the point of taking this approach when a better, more scientific - and above all SIMPLISTIC approach exists that anyone could do, given a little time and effort - and a lot of enjoyment of great music.

Edited by Certif1ed - December 03 2008 at 14:38

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 14:51

More popcorn please!!

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 14:59

Certif1ed wrote:

That is not the subject. The subject is "Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band, and you asserted that they were not, and that Genesis were more influential.

In fact, it is quite apparent that you have just changed the subject, because you realise that it is impossible to back up your claim, while my claim backs itself up.

Yes Cert, it was a compliment:

Certif1ed wrote:

All I said was that, from the descriptions, I don't understand what the music is supposed to sound like - and that ProgArchives seems to be the only place that actually tries to define it.

You changed the subject, you repeated ad nauseam that you don't accept Symphonic, that is changing the subject

Not at all - as I said above. Maybe I was too lazy to do more than one Google on the subject - the matter is irrelevant to the topic in hand. The definitions are still rubbish.

Lazy or not, you implied something that wasn't truth to descredit what i was saying.

To be honest, I didn't even know it was being done - and why would I help define something I don't think exists - and having read the definitions, I'm even more convinced of it.

There you go, Symphonic doesn't exist, all the Prog listening world is wrong and you are right.

But you often criticize every definition we give, not me, all the definitions all the genres and usually after it's done.

I really could care an awful lot less - I didn't categorise them as Symphonic, and it won't make the world spin any faster if they are if if they're not - it's just not a big deal.

But is done, with great effort of many people, and following more or less the parameters that exist in every Prog site and piece of prog literature.

That does not follow - on the surface it looks like deliberate obfuscation, but I'm willing to believe it's a language issue.

So I'm ofuscated and The T also because he doesn't agree with what you say?

More obfuscation - I ask for testable examples (here it's not within the boundaries of Prog Metal), and yet again, you ask if I disagree with The T.

Why should I ask an expert in Prog Metal instead of someone like yourself who is a Genesis expert about Genesis influenced bands?

Of course, the answer could be that you cannot provide testable examples.

You are the one insisting in the various, significant and evident Pink Floyd Metal influences, not me.

I'm not talking about exact copies - but it must be identifiable - or it's simply opinion, which can be disagreed with.

So if a band plays with the same atmosphere and mood lets say of A Trick of the Tail, but they don't try even to approach to a determined siong.....The influence doesn't exist?

Maybe the opinion is only shared because someone pointed out a vague similarity and others said "Oh Yeah..." when they heard it.

Yes, it's massive histeria produced by a person who thought that a band is inspired by genesis....You can't be wrong.

What about the little boy who says "Hang on, the Emporer isn't wearing any clothes!"?

Again with stories?

You talk to me of not putting effort in, then refuse to put any in yourself - and it took me no effort whatsoever - i just listened to the music and noticed it.

On which?

Those are the destination, or influenced songs, not the sources - no-one can verify from those alone!

I'm only telling you that the Genesis influence is more than evident, maybe my ubtrained ears invent what doesn't exist.

TEST IT, PROVE US WITH A SCIENTIFIC METHOD THAT FISH'S VOICE IS NOT SIMILAR TO PETER'S.

Obviously you can't, but still you say it's an absurd notion. Any member gives an OPINION and you ask scientific evidence...You say it's ABSURD and we must accept it without any prove.

BTW: Nobody said Marillion is a Genesis clone.

But it's not, oh, what's the word now...? - and hence is open to interpretation. You never know - someone might dare to disagree...

Disagree whatever you want, but not based in people not gining you the exact second of a song that inspired another song...Or better, do whatever you want, each one has his mind made.

Then why the fuss over bands like Radiohead, Queen and Metallica, if we don't need to verify?

They were added with no need of scientific approach, just the decision of people here.

Music is not simply an art - it is a means of communication, and, like any language, it has syntax and grammar, after a fashion.

You know that better than us

In this case, you made a claim using figures, which you asserted as fact.

Maybe you with your vast studies can take a scientific approach to music, but 99% of the other members including me, can't afford that luxury, we must trust in our ears and the opinions of others like us.

No, it's just that anyone could listen to the music and disagree, whereas if the examples are concrete, there is less doubt.

If you're going to throw numbers like 40% around, don't be surprised if someone questions that number.

It's evident researching each song, honestly I won't do it again to provide you examples, we compiled the data found and our experience in the bios, it has taken 6 months of our lifes, if you want to check it, it's there.

Whatever - I'm not interested in discussing my personal disposition - but if you can't actually prove something you've claimed, what's the point in making the claim?

That's what you believe, there are different opinions, like the one by T with which you also disagree,

I honestly trust enough in what I listen, I don't ask my opinions to be judged, you may accept them or not, but this is not a trial.

If I have doubts I always check the opinions of others, some times are different, others are equivalent, but I value all exactly the same, that's enough for me and for most of us.

Iván

And BTW: It's enough for me, I'm stealing time in the office for nothing

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 05 2008 at 15:44

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 14:59

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

You had to ruin a good post with Dream Theater?

Why not? They ruined a perfectly good genre

Joke!

Joke!!!

+++hides+++

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 17:41

Maybe this wiki article serves to clarify the point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_rock

Good points on both sides.

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Posted: December 03 2008 at 23:15

Jim Garten wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

You had to ruin a good post with Dream Theater?

Why not? They ruined a perfectly good genre

Joke!

Joke!!!

+++hides+++

Hey! We can start our own discussion! That would be like a polyphony of arguments! Counterpoint! A Polydiscussion!

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Posted: December 04 2008 at 01:46

I'm surprised one band has yet to mentioned on this thread: Jethro Tull. They may have little influence over the prog or non-prog greats, but... Well, it's been 30 years now since it has become impossible to try mixing folk with heavy rock without checking Tull first. I've yet to see another band with such an influence over their own sub-genre.

Back on topic, yes, it is possible that Pink Floyd may be the most influential prog band.

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Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:51

The T wrote:

Jim Garten wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

You had to ruin a good post with Dream Theater?

Why not? They ruined a perfectly good genre

Joke! Joke!!!

+++hides+++

x lots

Hey! We can start our own discussion! That would be like a polyphony of arguments! Counterpoint! A Polydiscussion!

Fine idea - in the time honoured tradition of on-line exchanges of views, and taking the rules and regulations of this forum into account, we need to extol the virtues of our particular side of the debate, giving cogent reasons as backup, provide evidence for same (including links to relevant websites and maybe even

books), and of course all the while giving respect where due & putting forward opinions without becoming opinionated - I'll start

James Labrie is a poo-head!

It could be relevant at this point for me to say I'm quite the DT fan, myself

Edited by Jim Garten - December 04 2008 at 02:52

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

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Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:53

Swan Song wrote:

Back on topic, yes, it is possible that Pink Floyd may be the most influential prog band.

Thank you.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

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Posted: December 04 2008 at 03:14

Swan Song wrote:

Back on topic, yes, it is possible that Pink Floyd may be the most influential prog band.

sure it's possible but I don't know if you could show that.. Floyd undoubtedly inspired countless rock and space-rock bands, but prog? Yeah, don't know, I still hear much more Crimson or ELP in both the old classic era prog groups as well as new ones (and by 'hear much more' I mean direct musical influence)

The T

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Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:31

Hey! Ivan! Certf1ed! Where are you? This thread is boring today!!