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Zadok 
Forum Groupie 
Joined: July 04 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 80 |
 Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:58 |
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Interesting topic. As I said elsewhere, a lot of modern metal seems to be based as much on progressive bands like Meshuggah and Opeth as more straightforward ones like Pantera and Motorhead. The metal fan has come a long way, and personally I don't divide my listening material up like that, I prefer to just see things as good or bad.
Of course, the fact that I love Red Sparowes and hate Metallica shows which side of the fence I'm coming from...
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micky
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:58 |
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hahah on which of the 2 or 3 subjects going on hahahhaha |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: October 11 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6699 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 15:06 |
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One thing is for certain.....
we missed your input.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 16:38 |
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 Ah, but will the poll really reflect the wider reality, or say more about:a) who has something to prove to mean old Peter
b) which age likes to post on the internet
c) which age likes to answer internet polls
To me, it is painfully obvious that bands that had their heyday in the early 70s will tend to have older fans than those that came along in the 90s or later.
I KNOW there are always exceptions (and some of you guys and your dads are those exceptions), but why is seeing that the core of our PM fans are teens & twenty-somethings so difficult, or so contentious? I ascribed no accompaning traits to those age groups (other than a GENERAL musical preference), but different generations favour different music -- just ask your granny or great-granny who she considers to be a great singer.
Bing or Sinatra maybe, possibly even Elvis -- but NOT the guy from Opeth, or even Jon Anderson, Peter Gabriel or Peter Hammill!
Sorry -- that just seems so darned obvious to me as to not need pointing out. None of these current PM bands were around (some had not even been born) when I was getting into progressive rock! My friends who were/are prog fans will almost certainly never have even heard of "prog metal," let alone Opeth. If I played them some, and then asked them what type of music it was, I am sure they'd simply say "metal."
(Most of that generation aren't on here, either -- no doubt another contentious generalization of mine, but accurate overall, I'd wager.)
That's all -- anyway, all of this really has precious little to do with my queries as to whether prog is becoming metal, and the future direction/meaning of "prog."
Or does it????  Edited by Peter Rideout - July 04 2006 at 16:39 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 17:04 |
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have followed this discussion with interest... I think it's a bit of a
no brainer that prog-metal fans are on the younger side compared to fan
of 70's prog. That seemed like a fair generalization to me Peter.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 17:13 |
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Thanks for your Gerard and Ars Nova support, Micky, symphonic rock is still alive Edited by erik neuteboom - July 04 2006 at 17:15 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21816 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 17:40 |
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Have a look at my poll: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11297 Of course you have a point there ... a younger genre might have younger fans in general. But the poll shows that Prog Metal is not only accepted by youngsters. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 04 2006 at 18:23 |
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1494 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:11 |
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Man, the quote bug really wrecks havoc on threads like these.
I don't know what has been said, because I'm not reading eleven pages, but here's what I think:
Metal is the new Jazz. Because avant-garde Jazz and many of the other genres of Jazz had just taken hold, many, many bands used Jazz influences in their music because it was new. Metal is new, so many prog bands want to add a metal element, since prog bands are interested in creating something new and different, with the exception of regressive rock bands like TFK. Although, as some people mentioned, part of the problem is that prog-metal seems to have a looser and looser definition. (*cough* Nightwish *cough*)
The classic bands, in a large part, explored most of the possibilities available without using metal. Because each band carved its own distinctive sound, now a lot of the time when somebody uses non-metal, unless it is ridiculously new and different (like TMV), it is labeled as a clone of Yes/Genesis/Pink Floyd, etc. However, there is no band that defines prog-metal yet, so bands add metal sections because they are sure that these parts, at least, will be recognized as unique, and it helps give them their own unique sound. We're mixing prog-metal with Fusion and Space-Rock. Nobody else has done that before because prog-metal hasn't existed for that long!
Yes, there are new bands that don't have any metal in them. There aren't many of them, though. We have Neo-Prog and Regressive Rock, Post-Rock, Electronic Prog, and the odd new band in various genres such as Fusion, Canterbury, Art Rock, etc. This sounds like a lot, but there really aren't many new bands in most of genres.
I think that this craze of adding metal to everything will soon die down, just like you don't see many prog bands with a heavy Jazz influence anymore. Somebody somewhere will soon think of some grand new idea that we can't even conceive of at this time (let's call it Rolo), or perhaps it will be a continuation of some idea that has long been overlooked. Either way, it will sweep the music world by storm, just as Jazz and metal did.
Then we will have an incredible amount of prog-Rolo bands, and prog-metal and classic prog fans will eventually start to wonder: "Is Prog becoming Rolo?" Edited by Ghandi 2 - July 04 2006 at 22:03 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:40 |
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 I'm sure was all that Peter was saying... just generalizing. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:40 |
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You might reasonably think so Miquel, but apparently, with prog metal fans, long hair, black leather and malt liquor are no more preferred than toupees, stretch jeans, "Attends" and Geritol....
 Uh huh.
 Think I'll go ask my middle-aged neighbours which Norwegian death band they prefer....
  Oh, and all those middle-aged guys in mullets at your PM concerts, kids?Those that aren't your dad/chaperone are known as narcs, pedophiles and confused:
"Dear me! I thought when I bought a ticket for 'Pain of Salvation' I would be attending a nice religious revival...."
How about them death growls, eh? < (indicates the presence of whimsy)Edited by Peter Rideout - July 04 2006 at 18:42 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:42 |
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exactly... when the luster of prog metal finally wears off... symphonic will still be around hahaha  |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:43 |
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Oh, that would be Painful.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1225 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:48 |
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The main fallacy is this; that Progressive Rock is a subgenre of Rock
in the sense of "Rock n' Roll". I still maintain that this is utterly
wrong. The music that got the original moniker of Progressive Rock had
about as much to do with Rock (n' Roll) - and by extension Blues - as
it had with Reggae, Chamber music or Raď. Yes, many of the players and
acts had their roots there, but it didn't take long for most of these
aspects to have been ground away in the then-constant striving to
expand the vocabulary and horizons of modern Rock (in the
all-encompassing sense where The Specials, Motörhead and Belle &
Sebastian are all in the same category)
Prog has at least as much in common with musicals, classic pre-Rock songwriting like Cole Porter, Music Hall, Jazz, soundtracks and Classical as it has with Rock, yet because of the name, any amount of Rock (or offshoots thereof) can be inserted into a Prog context and not seen as somehow making it less Prog. If a similar amount of modern Dance music is part of a band's sound, the Prog elements are completely ignored. I think this does Prog a disservice, by mainstreaming it to the point where all it is about is flashy solos and long songs. It used to be about a whole lot more than that. Edited by Teaflax - July 04 2006 at 18:49 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21816 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 18:48 |
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Actually it's not funny ... two years ago at the Dream Theater concert I felt like I was one of the youngest guys in the audience ... and I was already 29 years old! And if I compare the audience of Pain of Salvation to that of Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings or Porcupine Tree ... there's no big difference. |
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Stars Die
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 141 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 19:40 |
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I really don't see what's the problem with the growling vocals, prog has always used different types of singing to reflect different emotions,
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Du Skojar om att jag Skojar men jag skojar inte alls
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 19:52 |
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Well, I think Symphonic prog and prog metal (I don't want to generalize, though...) go about reflecting those emotions differently in certain cases. Take the death growls. I see them as certain metal band's ways of expressing pain, fury, etc. I think that the way a Symphonic band might go about that is with more vocal, tortured, sorrowful singing.
An analogy:
If we can think of the emotion in this case as a "war," A death-growling prog metal band would portray this "war" as Saving Private Ryan: brutal and straight to the point, whereas a Symphonic band might protray that same war as a Shakespeare play: full of drama, and a bit romanticized.
I hope I'm not generalizing both genres too much, but I think that might be a good way to see the death growl thing.
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Stars Die
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 141 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:01 |
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Ah.. but I don't think so, I think that a good prog metal band (say Ayreon or Opeth) would portray "war" in a Shakespeare kind of way, but adding elements of private ryan brutality to it, and by doing so making it even more interesting... That's what I see when I'm listening to prog metal, it is just a different way to make prog, I still see the same music and ambitions in the background, just a change of sound that makes it more interesting, and new...
Hmm ,this got a bit confusing I think, you have to excuse me, I'm very tired....
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Du Skojar om att jag Skojar men jag skojar inte alls
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:30 |
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This thread has been accidented violent in some moments, some agression and misunderstanding, but I'm glad it happened for a change.
I don't remember in a long time a 100% MUSICAL thread with so many members involved that has advanced so fast in a couple of days and it feels great.
Yes I love football but sometikmes I open the forum, click for active topics and only find Velvet Room's, Geography turns Prog, What are you eating now and all that non musical related threads that made me think we were forgetting that we're here mainly to talk about music and specially about Prog, even if it's Prog Metal (
 Just a joke don't hang me).Even if some are not so pleasent for moments i honestly missed musical debate.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 04 2006 at 20:31 |
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Is Prog becoming Metal?
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