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greenback 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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 Posted: March 02 2005 at 10:55 |
 ivan_2068 wrote:
So there should not be a strong reason to dislike Dream Theater, but I hate their music. Most of them are talented but I find no structure in their music, simply not solid, a lot of solos that lead nowhere.
Iván
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NO STRUCTURE? ARE YOU SERIOUS?????
just listen again images & words!
Edited by greenback
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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arkitek
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 289
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 10:56 |
oliverstoned wrote:
just listened to one album, and it was already too much for me!
i found it binary, boring, poorly skilled musicians...
It has nothing to do with real progressive.
They know how to play 2 notes, but that's all! |
oliver i only no how to play 2 notes and i am 14 so does taht mean i am able to play a DT song? how are they poorly skilled musicians they are alot better than the likes of Robert Fripp or Adrian Belew (King Crimson) IMO.
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Radioactive Toy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 953
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:10 |
Gosh.. This was bound to happen!!
dream theatre.. gosh where should I begin?!?!?!? The music of dream theatre isn't a band. It's just an group of one by one good musicians who wants to show their way of playing some stuff that's really hard to do ( once again.. show-off theatre)!! Innovation? something new? NO! boring stuff.. It really is.... The other thing that is bothering me is their fans.. calling this the best prog metal is just plain stupid! take a DEEP look further.. it's just like saying "I love the stuff of Phill Collins! It's the best prog-rock band ever!!" REALLY irritating.. that one!
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Reed's failed joke counter:
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R.I.P. You could have reached infinity....
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:18 |
Swinton MCR wrote:
This is a Strange one this is because I was born in 1965, I first heard Genesis as a kid of 9 when my Brother (10 years my senior) was playing Selling England , whilst I was playing with my lego.
I first got into Genesis in 1977 - Seconds out - what an Album and I went to see Genesis in 1977 and was hooked - I bought all the back catalogue in Dec 1977 - and some of it I didn't like at first. Then a friend introduced me to Sabbath/Deep Purple/Hawkwind and I was hooked again and went to see lots of Heavy rock gigs - then I got into Motorhead/Venom/Diamond head / Iron maiden, AC/DC and all that.
In 1985 I got into the new-romantic scene (mainly for the sex with very sexily clad young ladies who were into the new-romantic scene by their thousands) and I loved Ultravox and Numan - I also got into Yes at this time and a bit of Floyd, then Marillion / Twelfth Night / Pendragon and IQ.
About 12 months ago (I was 38) I started collecting prog-again - thats when I listened to KC - Too late I would imagine because I have heard too much other music etc.....
Genesis were my first Love, and then Heavy Metal then New romantic / Yes/Camel and the 80's prog bands then it was catch up in the year 2004.......
Strange eh ?
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I love hearing how people got into prog! Hey I'm only two years younger than you, and my first experience of prog was probably in 1980 - at the age of 11 - with Pink Floyd (The Wall) unless of course you count my run in Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds two years before.
You saw Genesis in '77 - With Hackett??? - I'm not jealous at all!! 
I think my problem with KC is that I, too decided to give them a go too late in the day. From my early teens I had been listening to Rush, Genesis, Floyd, Marillion, Led Zep along with a load of heavy metal bands, but had ignored KC, ELP and other key prog acts from the heyday.
I reckon a lot of people who drift away from prog when they're young, or put it on the back burner, return to it when they realise that most other popular music is so inferior to it. I spent half of the 90's sweating my bolloc*s off in raves, going to sh!tty clubs in London back alleys, and going to see floppy haired shoe gazing Indie bands. I soon got tired of that and went back to prog land. Glad I did. 
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Lark´s Vomit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:36 |
Go ahead and hate !! Who gives a puck 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:38 |
Radioactive Toy wrote:
| dream theatre.. gosh where should I begin?!?!?!? The music of dream theatre isn't a band. It's just an group of one by one good musicians who wants to show their way of playing some stuff that's really hard to do ( once again.. show-off theatre)!! |
Hey Greenback, this doesn't mean my comment about the lack of structure of Dream Theater is right, but at least means I'm not alone.
I heard Images and Words a lot of times trying to find something in Dream Theater, I bought Metropolis 2000 DVD without having listened them before, and still I only hear a bunch of very good but poser players trying to show how skilled they are as individual musicians but nothing else.
They are far much better as performers in their respective instruments (except La Brie) than as a band or composers.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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lobster41
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 08 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:52 |
Well, in my case, the problem isn't Dream Theater...it's Jordan Rudess. Kevin Moore-era DT is great...the Rudess stuff becomes WAY too self-indulgent and unstructured for me. (The exception at this time being Train of Thought, which is decent, but still doesn't measure up to Awake or Images and Words.)[/QUOTE]
I agree. I find their recent discs pure self-indulgence with little song to support it. Early DT had songs with fantastic playing supporting it.
I think they are amazing musicians, and I have great respect for each one of them individually. I just do not care for the SONGS. There was a thread a month or so ago regarding skill versus songwriting. DT are a perfect example of a group of fantastic musicians who have not recently been writing interesting songs.
In the interest of full disclosure, my favorite DT album is "Falling Into Infinity", which is a TRUE DT fan's "sellout" album. This disc had songs, though. A perfect example is "Lines in the Sand", where Pettrucci plays a slower solo. The notes in that solo are perfect for the song. There are solos in "Train of Thought" where he probably plays 128 notes per beat. Great musician, but it does nothing to move the song along.
Give me Transatlantic (with Mike Portnoy) or OSI (with Kevin Moore) anyday.
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Matt0001
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 27 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 11:56 |
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To understand why people don't like them, compare Dream Theater back to
back with The Mars Volta. On the very surface, they are
similar--shredding solos, wailing vocals, extended song structures,
etc. But there is an artistic discovery and true emotion going on in
Mars Volta while Dream Theater comes across as an academic exercise.
Other comments about Dream Theater not being a real band really hold
some weight. Mars Volta is a street fight, while Dream Theater is a
board-smashing judo exhibition at the county fair.
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Lark´s Vomit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 12:03 |
Bull !!!!!!!!! 
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 12:08 |
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Lark´s Vomit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 12:10 |
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Beau Heem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 227
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 12:12 |
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The music (or something resembling music) of DT always reminds me of
the hundreds of hours I spent trying to master the etudes of David
Popper with my cello.
Music composed to develop instrumental skills, not something that
should ever be played for an audience. (no need to remind me of
Debussy's concert etudes here)
Someone wise said a long, long time ago, that if a musical piece sounds difficult to play, it is poorly played.
I think that remark isn't far from the truth.
Cheers
-Beau
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--No enemy but time--
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Lark´s Vomit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 12:16 |
Beau Heem I´m glad that you play the Cello 
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FloydWright
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 20 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 369
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:06 |
lobster41 wrote:
Well, in my case, the problem isn't Dream Theater...it's Jordan Rudess. Kevin Moore-era DT is great...the Rudess stuff becomes WAY too self-indulgent and unstructured for me. (The exception at this time being Train of Thought, which is decent, but still doesn't measure up to Awake or Images and Words.) |
I agree. I find their recent discs pure self-indulgence with little song to support it. Early DT had songs with fantastic playing supporting it.
I think they are amazing musicians, and I have great respect for each one of them individually. I just do not care for the SONGS. There was a thread a month or so ago regarding skill versus songwriting. DT are a perfect example of a group of fantastic musicians who have not recently been writing interesting songs.
In the interest of full disclosure, my favorite DT album is "Falling Into Infinity", which is a TRUE DT fan's "sellout" album. This disc had songs, though. A perfect example is "Lines in the Sand", where Pettrucci plays a slower solo. The notes in that solo are perfect for the song. There are solos in "Train of Thought" where he probably plays 128 notes per beat. Great musician, but it does nothing to move the song along.
Give me Transatlantic (with Mike Portnoy) or OSI (with Kevin Moore) anyday. |
LOL, at least the thing about those Train of Thought solos is that they actually KEEP MOVING. That's in contrast to Scenes, where the music slows waaaaaaaay down, to a point where I absolutely can't stand it. And that's why I like Train of Thought OK (even if it's in 3rd place so far among the DT albums I have).
About Images and Words, I find that album pretty structured...the only place where I might've done a bit of editing was "Metropolis, Pt. 1" (foreshadowing, perhaps?), but even that was not that out of control. "Learning to Live", on the other hands, was a successful 10 minutes 30 seconds, and I wouldn't edit a bit of it. It has an emotional feel to it. Kevin Moore was really quite good at that; he wasn't "too good for his own good", if that makes sense. Kinda like Richard Wright, actually. But of what I've heard so far, Awake is their most coherent album, and I'd think that even some "DT-haters" would find something to like about it.
Now, what is Falling into Infinity like? Was Derek Sherinian on it, and what's his playing style like? I'm considering either that or A Change of Seasons for my next attempt at a DT album. (Which I will sample heavily before buying, of course.)
Edited by FloydWright
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Lark´s Vomit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:08 |
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FloydWright
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 20 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 369
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:10 |
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Metropolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 760
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:11 |
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Get A Change of Seasons next, Falling into Infinty is definitely their weakest album
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We Lost the Skyline............
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:23 |
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:33 |
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Dream Theatre is a Metallica, with an even worse singer, and solos that carry out so long, and seem so random that it kills all momentum built up throughout the song.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:36 |
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Hating Dream Theater
