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The Pessimist 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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 Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:31 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Starless wrote:
Having read how good Opeth's Watershed is, I borrowed a copy from a mate, which I an listening to as I write.
Now, I have always had a deep aversion to any band that features unintelligible guttural growling HM vocals (I'm an old fart), and this occassionally features the very same. The suprise is I haven't turned it off, as musically it is very inventive, time & key changes a-plenty, and with completely schizophrenic style changes, sometimes in the same song, "Hessian Peel" being a case in point.
I won't be buying it though simply because of the annoying mock horror vox that creep in now and again. Here's my point - would they not be better off ditching the growling and thereby guaranteeing a much bigger audience? i would have thought they were too prog for a metal audience anyway. |
Judging from your user name I'm guessing you're a fan of King Crimson. Now, I think they would have had many more fans if they had left out the Avant-Garde parts ... wouldn't you agree? |
 low blow there, very tactical  personally i love the opeth growls, pure raw energy that no other prog band portrays, and it's marvellous how they die down into mellow sections like the smooth jazz section in Moonlapse Vertigo.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66837
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:34 |
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I always have given them credit for their musicianship. I have said many times before they could easily be one of my favorite bands musically, but the death growls suck immensely IMHO. There have been responses to continue listening because they will grow on me. To ignore the vocals and treat them as another instrument. I guess I am just fated to not get the point of death growls. Personally I don't think the lyrics are any darker then something like Sabbath or Iron Maiden, or even Porcupine Tree and none of those bands used death metal growls. I get that those of you that are fans get the point of the death metal vocals and that you appreciate them as a vital part of the music. As I have said many times before I really want to like Opeth because musically they are so spectacular but then Cookie Monster makes an appearance and I want to toss my cookies.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21847
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:38 |
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^ I wasn't referring to you with my criticism ... rather to those who simply dismiss Opeth completely because of the growls.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Points: 11985
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:42 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ I wasn't referring to you with my criticism ... rather to those who simply dismiss Opeth completely because of the growls.
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But for the growls they'd be one of my very favourite band., being a big Rush fan maybe I only have room for one band with "distinctive" vocal stylings. 
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:48 |
I love the growls!  As far as I know, Opeth are the only death metal band to do growls deep enough, real enough, and brutal enough to be taken seriously. Dark Tranquility would be awesome if the singer could growl like Mikael.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:50 |
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^ Recently I bought their DVD (Lamentations) and I was really impressed with it. Not so much the musical performance - of course it was top notch - but the atmosphere, the positivity of band and audience. I can only recommend it to anyone who thinks he/she could like them if they quit the growling.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 14:52 |
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Stoney, you do have to remember, with melodic death metal, one of the main traits of it was the slightly higher pitched growl as compared to
say, brutal death metal. Although Opeth is pretty melodic, Mikael's
growl is a more brutal death growl, although more intelligible than many other growlers IMO.
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Starless
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 29 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 85
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 15:05 |
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Touche!!
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Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 15:36 |
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It's vocal distortion, really. More extreme vocals to suit the extreme music, which is a paraphrase of something Mikael said himself in an interview.
Now I'm not the biggest Opeth fan in the world (first three albums and nothing more), but both his singing and growls are top-notch.
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Darklord55
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 08 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 357
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 16:12 |
Oh for the love of God, let Opeth be Opeth. 
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 16:16 |
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Ditch the growls and you'll have to rewrite pretty much all the music, it's as simple as that.
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Duncan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 19:12 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ Recently I bought their DVD (Lamentations) and I was really impressed with it. Not so much the musical performance - of course it was top notch - but the atmosphere, the positivity of band and audience. I can only recommend it to anyone who thinks he/she could like them if they quit the growling.
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I haven't seen the DVD but I agree - in spite of their aesthetic, Opeth live turn out to be a personable, unpretentious bunch of musicians. Which, I reckon, goes hand in hand with being open and unpretentious about their influences, and about the music they're trying to make at whatever point in time (whether that means dropping the growls for one album, or starting to use keyboards); to arbitrarily strip things out because, say, We're A Prog Band Now would be a bit ingenuine. I certainly can't take growling seriously. But why the hell should I need to in order to appreciate Opeth?
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 19:31 |
^ You have a point there ... it seems to me like some people take things like growling, heavy guitars and double bass drumming way too seriously. I don't see a big difference between growling vocals and Peter Gabriel in a flower costume. Both can be called "ridiculous" and at the same time we can enjoy listening to the music, or watching the performance.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 20:00 |
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Interestingly, the growling was one of the things that really drew me to the band. Normally I really dislike growling, but I liked it on the samples, so I got my second metal album (oddly, I didn't consider Arcturus particularly heavy or metallic) for that precise reason. Weird, eh.
I look forward to getting more Opeth in the future.
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Camelfan
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 05 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 20:05 |
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I think some of the growling is overused sometimes and in a not particularly interesting manner, but I can overlook that when you have such awesome screams like say the very end of Black Rose Immortal. great songs like April Ethereal or The Funeral Portrait or Serenity Painted
Death wouldn't be nearly as powerful and exciting without them.
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 20:23 |
Darklord55 wrote:
Oh for the love of God, let Opeth be Opeth. |
There's the rub - Opeth is that magical balance of death and clean vocals coupled with music that is both Prog and Metal in perfect proportions. Opeth themselves have shown that they can leave out any single element without the house of cards collapsing ... they remain Opeth, yet it is only when heard in context of a complete album that the whole thing really works as Opeth.
For me, Damnation has to be heard in context - i.e. with Deliverance.
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What?
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 20:29 |
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Reminded me of another 'dilemma'; If only Dream Theater had a different vocalist.
Edited by Drew - June 07 2008 at 20:30
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
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Posted: June 08 2008 at 04:36 |
Drew wrote:
Reminded me of another 'dilemma'; If only Dream Theater had a different vocalist. |
Or if only LaBrie got rid of his mannerisms. It would be a step in the right direction, but only one of many they'd have to take. As for popularity, a great way for making *any* band more popular is adding a rapper. I'm sure we'd all like to see that done with the music we love. And at the end of the day, Akerfeldt writes the music he wants to hear, again, it's as simple is that. If anyone else happens to like it, cool. If not, they can go elsewhere.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: June 08 2008 at 12:53 |
to growl or not to growl this is the question ? .. growling is the Opeth way ! I respect that (just don't like so much the copy cats that do it)
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Plankowner
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 09 2008
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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Posted: June 09 2008 at 01:30 |
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Opeth (Watershed) - Sack the HM vocalist??
