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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 8066
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Posted: January 20 2007 at 20:01 |
Strange, no one mentioned "Jesus Christ Superstar".
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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lightbulb_son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 20 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 965
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Posted: January 20 2007 at 21:09 |
Glass Hammer
I am agnostic myself, but a band's religious beliefs do not bother me, unless they are the lyrical and musical focus of the group (exception made for Orphaned Land).
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When the world is sick
Can't no one be well
But I dreamt we were all
beautiful and strong
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2488
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 07:09 |
NotAProghead wrote:
Strange, no one mentioned "Jesus Christ Superstar".
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Good point!
Have you ever tried it, endlessepic?
I definitely recommend it!
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Space Dimentia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 25 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 440
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:06 |
I have to admit I try and steer clear of most christian rock as at times its abit to preachy but I do like Saviour Machine, their first 2 albums are awsome example of good, solid prog-metal but their newer stuff is alil bit preachier. Plus I love Eric Clayton's voice its so nice, its very operatic, baratone, I could see him singing on broadway or in the Westend.
Ahh but JC Superstar is just a rock opera/musical and as much as I love it its not very proggy.
I love Orphaned Land if we are talking about relgious prog, they are an amazing band and because the music is so awsome and varied and there use of differnt languages is so interesting you can kind of forget all teh relgious connotations within their albums.
Edited by Space Dimentia - January 21 2007 at 10:09
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Prog is music for the mind
Hear your Orphaned child!
Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2488
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 12:52 |
Space Dimentia wrote:
Ahh but JC Superstar is just a rock opera/musical and as much as I love it its not very proggy. |
'Just a rock opera' - true, but it may just be one of the best!
I've had this conversation once before (in a different thread), but AS AN OPERA (in which interacting characters come alive through the words they sing)JCS must be superior to TOMMY or even THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY.
P.S. Before the terrible wrath of a thousand Genesis freaks descends upon me, let me add that, as MUSIC, THE LAMB is of course ten times better than JCS!
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Spiderprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 104
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 13:22 |
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 13:25 |
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group.
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Spiderprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 104
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 14:18 |
The Wizard wrote:
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group. |
Amen Brother!
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pepefloyd
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 14 2006
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 65
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:40 |
argentinian legendary band, Vox Dei and the album La Biblia(The Bible), obviosly christian influenced, more historica than anything, but christian indeed :P
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 20:16 |
The Wizard wrote:
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group. |
Pretty closed minded, if that were the case. I would think that prog is a pretty free genre and can easily cross over between secular and religious (any religion).
E
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Spiderprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 104
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 20:33 |
E-Dub wrote:
The Wizard wrote:
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group. |
Pretty closed minded, if that were the case. I would think that prog is a pretty free genre and can easily cross over between secular and religious (any religion).
E
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You are right. But good art is not about preaching, especially in an age that needs new and fresh answers and not tired cliches. I do not understand why, if someone wants to write anything spiritual, he has to proclaim himself as a christian, moslem or any other member of a particular religion. I still think spiritual prog works much better as a term if one is needed at all.
Edited by Spiderprog - January 21 2007 at 20:33
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3083
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 21:56 |
Spiderprog wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
The Wizard wrote:
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group. |
Pretty closed minded, if that were the case. I would think that prog is a pretty free genre and can easily cross over between secular and religious (any religion).
E |
You are right. But good art is not about preaching, especially in an age that needs new and fresh answers and not tired cliches. I do not understand why, if someone wants to write anything spiritual, he has to proclaim himself as a christian, moslem or any other member of a particular religion. I still think spiritual prog works much better as a term if one is needed at all.
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I don't think anyone is preaching here. Neal Morse certainly doesn't preach, he tells his own personal stories, feelings and beliefs, or he tells stories and what not from the Bible itself, which in essence shouldn't be much different in concept than retelling a part of any story, though it surely would have a spiritual meaning rather than just a sentimental one. He is not pushing his beliefs on anyone, he is just putting them out there. Besides, I think nearly every musician in some way or another works their beliefs in to their stuff regardless if it's religious, spiritual, moral, etc.
I also don't think anyone says bluntly in their music "I'm a Christian." The artists may speak of beliefs or whatever relating to a certain belief system, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are proclaiming an affiliation. The Flower Kings, for example, speak of many positive things: peace, love, etc. They even make references to God, though not saying it directly. Roine Stolt is not a Christian though.
You also should not make such generalizations of Christianity or any belief, because they all take many different forms. And again, Christianity is supposed to be about having a realtionship with God, it is not supposed to be a formulaic, utterly strict religion. I can't see how these are "tired cliches." Sure, I disagree with some views/practices of certain sects of Christianity, and many of those sects' ideals do need to fix some things, but shouldn't the general morals expressed in the Bible (as well as the Torah and Qu'ran if I'm not mistaken) remain always? You can't say that treating people with kindness, not killing/lying/stealing, etc. are played out and we need fresh ideas. For how many theories and ideas have come and gone over the years, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and so on have all remained, and that should say something. Unfortunately these people who think we need new ideals have been winning, as many nations keep losing grip on their foundations in favor of new ones that appeal to those who are trying to break away from the traditional morals and the like.
Lastly, why should you care if someone wants to say what they believe? If you need new ideas, and Christian ideas are too old for you, don't listen to it. I don't see why people need to question what's already been accepted for all of these years, and (generally speaking) rightfully so. And just because this age is bent on new explainations for everything, why must a man conform to those people and aquiesce to their requests? If a Scientologist wants to write about his ARC triangle and auditing, or if an evolutionist wants to write about is great, great, great, great, great grandfather the ape, let him/her. Are you going to accuse them of preaching to us?
Artists give us their perspectives of religion and morals, love, the world, but are we accusing all of them of preaching to us? No, surprisingly, only the Christians, or so it seems. At least to a much larger degree than the others.
Edited by Moatilliatta - January 21 2007 at 21:58
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 01:01 |
[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone is preaching here. Neal Morse certainly doesn't preach, he tells his own personal stories, feelings and beliefs, or he tells stories and what not from the Bible itself, which in essence shouldn't be much different in concept than retelling a part of any story, though it surely would have a spiritual meaning rather than just a sentimental one. He is not pushing his beliefs on anyone, he is just putting them out there. Besides, I think nearly every musician in some way or another works their beliefs in to their stuff regardless if it's religious, spiritual, moral, etc.
I also don't think anyone says bluntly in their music "I'm a Christian." The artists may speak of beliefs or whatever relating to a certain belief system, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are proclaiming an affiliation. The Flower Kings, for example, speak of many positive things: peace, love, etc. They even make references to God, though not saying it directly. Roine Stolt is not a Christian though.
You also should not make such generalizations of Christianity or any belief, because they all take many different forms. And again, Christianity is supposed to be about having a realtionship with God, it is not supposed to be a formulaic, utterly strict religion. I can't see how these are "tired cliches." Sure, I disagree with some views/practices of certain sects of Christianity, and many of those sects' ideals do need to fix some things, but shouldn't the general morals expressed in the Bible (as well as the Torah and Qu'ran if I'm not mistaken) remain always? You can't say that treating people with kindness, not killing/lying/stealing, etc. are played out and we need fresh ideas. For how many theories and ideas have come and gone over the years, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and so on have all remained, and that should say something. Unfortunately these people who think we need new ideals have been winning, as many nations keep losing grip on their foundations in favor of new ones that appeal to those who are trying to break away from the traditional morals and the like.
Lastly, why should you care if someone wants to say what they believe? If you need new ideas, and Christian ideas are too old for you, don't listen to it. I don't see why people need to question what's already been accepted for all of these years, and (generally speaking) rightfully so. And just because this age is bent on new explainations for everything, why must a man conform to those people and aquiesce to their requests? If a Scientologist wants to write about his ARC triangle and auditing, or if an evolutionist wants to write about is great, great, great, great, great grandfather the ape, let him/her. Are you going to accuse them of preaching to us?
Artists give us their perspectives of religion and morals, love, the world, but are we accusing all of them of preaching to us? No, surprisingly, only the Christians, or so it seems. At least to a much larger degree than the others. [/QUOTE] Very well stated!
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 01:02 |
The Wizard wrote:
Prog is about magic mushrooms and eastern philosophies, not Billy Graham and youth group. |
I apreciate the opinion but I clarified on my first post this thread isnt for dissentors... Thanks
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 01:21 |
endlessepic wrote:
This is for Christian proggers or decent non-christians. Please no "Christian music blows...satanic metal is the way to go!"Hi, I am a Christian. I am also a really sketchy character, hence my need for a savior...however, I find it difficult to find musicians who are Christians that sound good. There are exceptions however, such as and not limited to - Phil Keaggy! John Standefer, Hyper Static-Union isnt too bad, Neal Morse is really good but I havent bought any of his albums yet.Can anyone reccommend artists that are Christians, (I'd rather it wasnt just straight praise music) and can play really well...preferably prog artists.To see what I'm into = My favorite bands are - but arent limited toELPGenesisRadioheadGentle GiantYesPink FloydDire StraitsChet AtkinsTommy EmmanuelKeaneKing CrimsonAnglagardZappaMuseand many more...basically every band on progarchivesIs there anyone along these lines that play christian prog?Thank you
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Four suggestions to you although they all come from the same writer:
Kansas (After 1980)
AD (The band Kerry Livgren joined after becoming a Christian and quiting Kansas)
Kerry Livgeren (5 albums of solo material)
Proto-Kaw (The band Kerry writes for now)
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 01:27 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 03:46 |
endlessepic wrote:
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I don't think anyone is preaching here. Neal Morse certainly doesn't preach, he tells his own personal stories, feelings and beliefs, or he tells stories and what not from the Bible itself, which in essence shouldn't be much different in concept than retelling a part of any story, though it surely would have a spiritual meaning rather than just a sentimental one. He is not pushing his beliefs on anyone, he is just putting them out there. Besides, I think nearly every musician in some way or another works their beliefs in to their stuff regardless if it's religious, spiritual, moral, etc.
I also don't think anyone says bluntly in their music "I'm a Christian." The artists may speak of beliefs or whatever relating to a certain belief system, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are proclaiming an affiliation. The Flower Kings, for example, speak of many positive things: peace, love, etc. They even make references to God, though not saying it directly. Roine Stolt is not a Christian though.
You also should not make such generalizations of Christianity or any belief, because they all take many different forms. And again, Christianity is supposed to be about having a realtionship with God, it is not supposed to be a formulaic, utterly strict religion. I can't see how these are "tired cliches." Sure, I disagree with some views/practices of certain sects of Christianity, and many of those sects' ideals do need to fix some things, but shouldn't the general morals expressed in the Bible (as well as the Torah and Qu'ran if I'm not mistaken) remain always? You can't say that treating people with kindness, not killing/lying/stealing, etc. are played out and we need fresh ideas. For how many theories and ideas have come and gone over the years, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and so on have all remained, and that should say something. Unfortunately these people who think we need new ideals have been winning, as many nations keep losing grip on their foundations in favor of new ones that appeal to those who are trying to break away from the traditional morals and the like.
Lastly, why should you care if someone wants to say what they believe? If you need new ideas, and Christian ideas are too old for you, don't listen to it. I don't see why people need to question what's already been accepted for all of these years, and (generally speaking) rightfully so. And just because this age is bent on new explainations for everything, why must a man conform to those people and aquiesce to their requests? If a Scientologist wants to write about his ARC triangle and auditing, or if an evolutionist wants to write about is great, great, great, great, great grandfather the ape, let him/her. Are you going to accuse them of preaching to us?
Artists give us their perspectives of religion and morals, love, the world, but are we accusing all of them of preaching to us? No, surprisingly, only the Christians, or so it seems. At least to a much larger degree than the others. [/QUOTE]Very well stated![/QUOTE]
I would have to agree here. As you addressed with Neal's music, it's not 'preachy' in the least. Testimony is Neal's story, plain and simple. One, ?, and (more than likely) Sola Scriptura are concept albums telling a story. In this case, they all have a common denominator in that it's religious (Christian...oohh, that dreaded 'c' word again!) in nature. I've heard a lot of 'preachy' music jamming their beliefs down our throats that have nothing to do with Christianity. We sure don't hear about that, however.
And what if it was preachy? Don't listen to it. Personally, I need to be reminded in-between Sundays.
E
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 04:09 |
Just pre-ordered Sola Scriptura. MP3 samples are available at Neal's website. Always look forward to a new Neal Morse disc.
E
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 10:14 |
[/QUOTE]
Four suggestions to you although they all come from the same writer:
Kansas (After 1980)
AD (The band Kerry Livgren joined after becoming a Christian and quiting Kansas)
Kerry Livgeren (5 albums of solo material)
Proto-Kaw (The band Kerry writes for now)
 [/QUOTE] Is this the same Kansas that scored the radio hit "Carry On My Wayward Son?" I have always loved that song and knew that it was progressive but never really heard any of their other stuff. I keep hearing their name floating around here but unfortunatly havent delved into their works.
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 13:01 |
I remember reading that Shadow Gallery are a Christian metla band...jejej, as crazy as that might sound, you should give them a try... I know I did...and well, I keep the commments to myself  also, you like King Crimson?...but dont you know what King Crimson means?
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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