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Henry Plainview 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
 Posted: January 26 2011 at 01:34 |
Because you haven't convinced him otherwise? I'm confused why you even uttered this question, much less in such an exasperated tone. This may cause an unwanted amount of introspection on your part with regard to the amount of time you've spent arguing, but people's opinions are almost changed through a forum discussion. Anyway, I hope we can all agree that the Michele Bachmann response was creepy and weird. TPM said it best.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 01:08 |
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Oh, note I said alienated.
I still truly believe what I believe at my core, but just accept it will never happen in the US.  |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 01:07 |
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Because...it's what I believe.
I won't bother explaining since it's always useless...but I can be progressive and believe in Capitalism and Markets. I am certainly not comfortable with markets being everything, as some of you guys want. Semi tangent: We got bogged down in econ talk...I consider a progressive agenda the whole plate. Total gay rights, drug legalization, all the stuff we agree on and ignore Note Obama never gave any real support for legalizing even weed, and the DADT repeal came from Congress...and even that was pointlessly delayed just for the sake of it. No Gay Marriage either. A few non econ points I havn't been happy with. I thought his handling of BP was fine, (like he could do much). My friend was one of those who felt the government should've seized BP and hold their assets, to make sure the fine can be paid and use the money for cleanup. See? I'm not the most crazy out there. |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 00:58 |
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Oh, and while I'm posting Stossel stuff, here is his SOTU:
Hopefully, FOX Business will get around to posting the video of his coverage at some point.
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 Time always wins. |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 00:54 |
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Why, after all these pages, do you still cling onto the idea that a "progressive" agenda is a good thing?
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Time always wins. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 00:48 |
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Nah, I still feel more alienated every day from politics in general, but just stating the fact I WAS happy with the Obama/Dem congress and was hoping for a progressive agenda, and it failed.
That was all. If it happened today I'd realize that realistically...not much "change" was coming. Although I can't disagree I am lost politically to an extent. My views are, after all, still drifting. I never like to stay permanently settled, I'm progressive! Edited by JJLehto - January 26 2011 at 00:49 |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: January 26 2011 at 00:42 |
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I see that JJ is still hopelessly lost politically despite contributing to this thread for about 200 pages now.
Didn't watch the SOTU because, well, why would I? It's a pointless show event.
Anyway, wanted to post this short little piece that John Stossel wrote a few years ago on being a libertarian:
What It Feels Like to Be a LibertarianI share the Founders’ vision of limited government and the ability of people to voluntarily join with others to help their communities and themselves. I don’t agree with the conservatives who want government to play the role of morals policemen, and I don’t agree with the nanny state liberals. I’m a libertarian. Georgetown University Professor John Hasnas has this take on what it feels like to be a libertarian these days: It feels bad. Being a libertarian means living with an almost unendurable level of frustration. It means being subject to unending scorn and derision despite being inevitably proven correct by events. Imagine spending two decades warning that government policy is leading to a major economic collapse, and then, when the collapse comes, watching the world conclude that markets do not work. Imagine continually explaining that markets function because they have a built in corrective mechanism; that periodic contractions are necessary to weed out unproductive ventures; that continually loosening credit to avoid such corrections just puts off the day of reckoning and inevitably leads to a larger recession; that this is precisely what the government did during the 1920's that led to the great depression; and then, when the recession hits, seeing it offered as proof of the failure of laissez-faire capitalism. Yup. It often feels bad. But so what? It’s our job to fight for freedom. Read more: http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/08/01/what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-libertarian/#ixzz1C7Y0zaFU |
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Time always wins. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 23:52 |
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Yeah most people I know, politically saavy and "regular" are happy with the split Congress.
In a sick way, so am I. I'm always the one for compromise and bipartisanship if possible...but with the Tea Party I'd rather get nothing done than anything they want  I don't know man. I WAS happy when Obama had all of Congress in his pocket. Turns out the Democrats were pretty full of fail though. So much for that progressive agenda I was praying for... |
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The T
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 23:50 |
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I'm really starting to think he'll do better now that he doesn't have congress fully in his pocket. Both parties are almost the same sh*t, but they love to argue, and that is only good for those who don't want too much power or too big a government.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 23:37 |
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I had a feeling he would take a more "middle of the road" speech.
Guess I really didn't miss much! And I know speeches are just for the surface, can't take much out of them at all...but I do like it. Great show. Obama is indeed one great speech teller, even most hardcore haters I've seen grant him that much. It was his speech back in '04 at the DNC that pretty much put him in the spotlight. I remember all my fellow 16 year olds on Xanga (oh gawd) talking about how awesome it was and we wanted him to be our man. 6 years later...not quite as high on him. Edited by JJLehto - January 25 2011 at 23:38 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 23:31 |
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It was quite a middle of the road speech. You can say anything about Obama, but he certainly can deliver a speech. It was quite more to the right than normal. In a way I liked it because it sounded like he doesn't want to (or just knows he can't) make government an all-intrusive powerful entity ruling our lives. Of course some things are still there (health care, with which I still can't manage to fully disagree) though even this was also delivered together with an appeal to the other side (trying to eliminate frivolous lawsuits that make costs of health care higher). All in all, a good speech, useless, full of dreams and empty words, but in some ways somewhat decent.
One thing is certain and even now I maintain it: the US, full of ridiculous regulations as it is, is still a beacon of freedom compared to other nations, so much that this self-congratulating government party that the state of the union is is still a call for the individual to show his best, pull himself out of misery, and politicians to help him. Unlike other places where speeches go about what all-powerful messiahs or goernments can do to solve all the problems of their people. Twisted as it is, freedom is still a higher value in the US than anywhere else. I have a good feeling this country just can't ever let government get too big. In a way, those few guys who wrote the piece of paper about 200+ years ago really did their job well... That damn thing in a way has safeguarded liberty against tiranny... But it's always in the hands of the people to stop it, and a people willing to surrender will do it trampling over as many constitutions as they manage to... |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 23:19 |
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Well missed the State of the Union, huzzah work.
Not sure if I missed much though...guess I might as well watch it. I was mainly looking forward to seeing the tea party reaction, since apparently the Rep one was not enough I can only hope this rift kills the party, since the alternative (tea party consuming the Reps) is too horrifying for me. |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:36 |
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Yeah people annoy me when they just complain about the federal government having a power, but then think individual states doing it is magically fine. Federalism is a great way to limit power, but the same vigilance is needed at all levels for anything to be effective. That goes right down to local ordinances. The entire idea of keeping the States in control is to make anti-freedom measures easier to defeat since States are theoretically more responsive and less dangerous. The idea isn't to just accept whatever a state does.
I don't think it will. States need war to stay in power. But that of course is the end goal.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - January 25 2011 at 12:36 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:20 |
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^lol@people saying state government is so much better than the federal one.
Will the entire world one day be ruled by a gigantic bureaucracy? |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:08 |
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Apparently New York and Arkansas want to ban the use of headphones while parallel or adjacent to a street by pedestrians.
You know to make us safer. lol@free country.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:59 |
It's a shame. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32587 |
Posted: January 24 2011 at 12:45 |
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I can only say that while I have considered the preservation of
the constitutional party of the General Government to be the foundation
of our peace and safety at home and abroad, I yet believe that the
maintenance of the rights and authority reserved to the states and
to the people, not only essential to the adjustment and balance
of the general system, but the safeguard to the continuance of a
free government. I consider it a chief source of stability to our
political system, whereas the consolidation of the states into one
vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home,
will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed
all those that have preceded it. I need not refer one so well acquainted
as you are with American history, to the State papers of Washington
and Jefferson, the representatives of the federal and democratic
parties, denouncing consolidation and centralization of power, as
tending to the subversion of State Governments, and to despotism.
-Robert E. Lee |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 24 2011 at 11:52 |
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Poverty, the idea that the US has pretty much stolen everything from us (?!?), a little cultural elite (not economical) that has kidnapped public education, oligarchies that really exploit the poor and people still believing in one-man-solutions, like some kind of Messiah that will deliver them from poverty; It's very sociological and psychological; oppression from the Spain Crown when the territory was conquered, leaving all natives (we call them "indios") to brutal poverty and pseudo-slavery, which in turn creates hate for the white colour (there's a lot of racial tension down there, specially in Andean countries); the stupid idea that capitalism has ever really been in effect down there, when all we've had is some 40% free market with huge governments regulating and obstructing everything. "Neoliberalism" is akin to "baby killing" for many people in my country and alike. They are mind-slaves. They are easy to manipulate. And governments have always been rich people doing everything for themselves. In the end, is just natural that Che Guevara is some sort of deity for the left.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: January 24 2011 at 11:46 |
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Why is socialism loved so much in that part of the world?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 24 2011 at 11:32 |
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True. Socialism decent ends attract easily. But there are no decent means to achieve socialism,
There is a good phrase by a Cuban economic-political writer, in reference to the typical pseudo-intellectual-college Latin American love of socialism and despair of capitalism: "Lo grave no es haber sido idiota, sino seguir siendolo". Translated as well as I can, "Having been an idiot is not so bad; what's really bad is to continue being one".
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Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!
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manofmystery wrote: