Is Prog becoming Metal?

as much as i know im gonna get it for this, i would say there is such thing as progressive rap or progressive hip hop, look into groups off a label called "anticon" and a lot of it is extremely interesting, its not the stupid idiotic style of hip hop on the radio, but it actually makes u think and is relatively intelligent

I think part of the difficult with Prog Metal additions is that there really isn't a criteria set.  Everything is still so subjective to the experts.  For Symphonic Prog and Art Rock there have been decades of precedence for what is Symphonic Prog and what is Art Rock.  This is much harder to do with Progressive Metal because it's a relatively young genre, and the categorization of a band like Opeth has opened windows for so many other bands to be taken into consideration which probably wouldn't have been considered prog metal back in '92 when Dream Theater released Images and Words.

Aaron wrote: i never said the ads were homosexual, i said they were gay, which is a synonym for lame

And why is "gay" a synonym for lame? It could only be that if you're either entirely thoughtless or a full-on homophobe, I would think.

Would you use "hetero", "jewish" or "asian" as a synonym for lame?

Teaflax wrote: Aaron wrote: i never said the ads were homosexual, i said they were gay, which is a synonym for lame And why is "gay" a synonym for lame? It could only be that if you're either entirely thoughtless or a full-on homophobe, I would think. Would you use "hetero", "jewish" or "asian" as a synonym for lame?

Aaron, don't be a ****ing retard. Gay doesn't have two meanings. It has one, which is homosexual. People like you just feel like it's fine ot call things gay because so many other people call things gay, or, as you say, lame. Why do you think people call things gay? Because gay people aren't accepted in the same way. The same reason people say "that's so jewish". Jews are seperated from the norm just like gay people are, and gays/jews got a bad name. Thus calling things lame turned into calling them jewish or gay. So therefore people think it's ok to say that now gay and jewish have two meanings. They have ONE meaning, and people like you are the people who think it's ok to use them in every day speech like they have two. So stop being an asshole and think about what you're saying. If you love gay people don't go around using them as a synonym for lame. That's just stupid.

I really hate when people do that.

On topic, stop worrying about prog becoming synonymous with metal. You worry too much, people who know what they are talking about aren't going to say that. Read my other post for a more detailed idea of my opinion.

language is funny

AtLossForWords wrote:   @Ivan   I feel we need to keep Prog Metal additions to the prog metal team because it's such a polarizing genre, and as you mentioned the lack of interest.  Genre teams were created to eliminate confusion, and by bring more and more viewpoints, we will be more and more confused about the proper direction.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: AtLossForWords wrote:   @Ivan   I feel we need to keep Prog Metal additions to the prog metal team because it's such a polarizing genre, and as you mentioned the lack of interest.  Genre teams were created to eliminate confusion, and by bring more and more viewpoints, we will be more and more confused about the proper direction.   Honestly I feel more cofusion when pure Metal bands at all are listed as Prog Metal.   But I learned to vive with this.   Iván

I think that, in most cases, it is all in the eye of the beholder, so to say. There are no hard and fast rules as to what constitutes "progginess" (after all, music is not a hard science, nor it is ever likely to become one), therefore it should not surprise us that the decision to include band X instead of band Y ultimately boils down to genre team members' individual views of what makes a band prog. This is, at least, what I have noticed since I have started posting on this forum. While everybody agrees on the prog quotient of, say, Genesis, Yes or the Canterbury bands, I've seen people questioning the progginess of Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree and other more or less 'established' bands.

What I really think is that we will never be able to completely eradicate these feelings of confusion, just because of the diversity of viewpoints.  The only wise thing, as  Ivan said, is to come to terms with this and not to make a mountain out of a molehill if certain bands are included at the expense of others. Life is hard enough as it is without losing sleep over Queen, Deep Purple or some obscure Norwegian Black Metal band being included in PA.

Teaflax wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: I will not go there ... it's no good. But I find it interesting how you're trying to turn this thread into a SB/AOR discussion. If you don't see the correlation, you're just sticking your head in the sand. Without the genre having been moved closer to mainstream/Rock tonalities and harmonies, this would never have become an issue. The Beard paved the path that Symphony X walked in on.

Progressive Power Metal reaches back into the 80s with Crimson Glory, who recorded their masterpiece "Transcendence" in 1988.

Sorry, but if there's one band that paved the way for simplistic music to be accepted in the archives, then it's:

Marillion






Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 04 2006 at 02:16

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I always thought that a Prog sub-genre was mainly Prog Rock with another influence, if it's classical, we consider it Symphonic (in most cases) if it's folk we call it Prog Folk, etc. But seems in Prog Metal doesn't work like this. No it doesn't, because Prog Metal is not really a Prog Rock sub genre. It has been explained a million times ...   There are some 99% Metal bands with a couple of keyboard solos, then inmediately are added to Prog Metal, in this case  the Metal component is far more important for some members than the Progressive Rock element. You can also say "The Prog Metal team is a bunch of morons", that's just as insulting.   Take Jethro Tull in Folk Prog, yes, there are some folk leanings, but the rock and even Symphonic components are at least as important, Renaissance is added oin Folk (I believe) but could also be added in Symphonic, on the other hand in the case of some Death Metal bands the Prog compoinent is so small that only the people who add the are aware of it. Examples? Most of the Death Metal bands which are in the archives are also considered to be progressive on many other important websites. Again, accusing the PM team to let in non-prog bands is insulting.   The most incredible thing is that this Prog Metal bands are simultaneously part of a sub-genre in Prog sites and a Metal sub-genre in metal sites, to the point that both genres are loosing their personality.   Is this really so difficult to understand? Some Prog Rock bands are also discussed on rock websites, is that also "incredible"? Prog Metal = Prog + Metal, Prog Rock = Prog + Rock, it's really quite simple. In the case of Symphonic our team before changing or adding a band post each and every possible change to recieve feedback from the other Collaborators, in some cases we have given a step back (Neal Morse and Manticore Sweden) in others we insisted in the changes. IMO additions should be decided by the team without asking for feedback ... otherwise what do we have a team for? The initial motivation for creating genre teams was to speed up the addition process.   In some cases our decisions are questioned or polls started , but this doesn't happen in Prog Metal, bands are added without asking anybody. Yes, and with the approval of the admins and owners of the site. BTW: bands which are cleared for addition aren't added right away ... there's plenty of time for all of you to look at the chart and to object. If you feel that the PM team is wrong, nobody is keeping you from starting a poll about the band to see what the community thinks about the addition. But currently I don't get the impression that those who continually oppose PM are monitoring the chart, nor are they interested in discussing these additions. As long as they don't speak their minds (specifically, about a band or album) the only reasonable thing to do is to ignore them and move on.   It's also true that our system won't work in Prog Metal because most progheads don't know lets say 50 or 60% of the Prog Metal bands (A good part don't care at all) and  if we listen them we're unable to understand it or even worst we won't pay a dime for one of their albums. I don't understand what you're getting at ... are you saying that friends of PM are more criminal than others?   We have some  Viking Metal bands or Death Metal bands that are just that and considered Viking or Death by Metal sites Not exactly. Give specific examples, and we can explain in detail why they're progressive, and we can back that up by quoting those resources you're referring to. Please keep in mind that especially in these sub genres the bands are progressing ... they may have started as a Viking Metal band but then became progressive, or the other way round. Don't complain about that in general, just think about Yes and Genesis.   I don't ask control for the Metal Team  because I chated with most of the Prog Metal team members or read their posts and I'm certain they are honest people making what they really believe in. Thanks - but you DO seem to think that they're not qualified to make the decisions.   I don't have absolutely any reason not to trust in their work, but I would ask them for a bit more of discression, if they have a doubt, don't add the band, if just one member of the team doesn't believe the band should be added, take some time and place it in the waiting list and consult the Collaborators, maybe some of us has listened them. We do just that. Have a look at the cleared list ... most of these bands with one or two "no" votes have been discussed in detail. Currently only bands with 5 (!) "yes" votes are cleared without discussion.   IMHO we have too many pseudo  Prog Metal bands already and this site is loosing identity, if things follow at this rate, Prog Metal will be a parallel entity to Progresive Rock with many sub-genres and probably more bands than in all the Progressive Rock genres added. Make a list of these pseudo Prog Metal bands ... I'm willing to bet that the better part of them are bands which were added before the Prog Metal Team even existed.   Iván