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Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Posted: February 14 2011 at 03:23
rogerthat wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Banks sensitive touch on the Mellotron was superior to nearly all of his contemporaries, and he also used a light touch on the synth. I tend to overlook the occasional odd sounds that he obtained from the synth, and focus on the other keys.
Frankly, I don't know if it IS possible to have a "dated" keyboard sound in prog! The work of Tangerine Dream remains very vital, and artists such as John Hawken of the Strawbs did amazing things with harpsichord, Minimoog etc.
Ditto, I prefer Banks's mellotron work or even piano work. His synth stuff is also compositionally very interesting but I don't feel that I have to necessarily like the tones he uses to enjoy their music overall. Yeah, Hawken's work for Strawbs is lovely.
Yeah Rutherford is a fantastic bassist. I also think people are too harsh on his gutiar work too. He's not in the same league of Hackett by any means whatsoever, but his style is so different it's stupid to compare IMO. He favours simple rhythm playing and atmospheric solos over flashy stuff which I think suited 80s Genesis just fine.
A good example is the ambient Pink Floyd-ish outro to Home by the Sea where he and Banks both create a really cool atmosphere together, and on the following track. Just because they went mainstream doesn't mean they forgot how to play.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7530
Posted: February 14 2011 at 13:25
boo boo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Banks sensitive touch on the Mellotron was superior to nearly all of his contemporaries, and he also used a light touch on the synth. I tend to overlook the occasional odd sounds that he obtained from the synth, and focus on the other keys.
Frankly, I don't know if it IS possible to have a "dated" keyboard sound in prog! The work of Tangerine Dream remains very vital, and artists such as John Hawken of the Strawbs did amazing things with harpsichord, Minimoog etc.
Ditto, I prefer Banks's mellotron work or even piano work. His synth stuff is also compositionally very interesting but I don't feel that I have to necessarily like the tones he uses to enjoy their music overall. Yeah, Hawken's work for Strawbs is lovely.
Yeah Rutherford is a fantastic bassist. I also think people are too harsh on his gutiar work too. He's not in the same league of Hackett by any means whatsoever, but his style is so different it's stupid to compare IMO. He favours simple rhythm playing and atmospheric solos over flashy stuff which I think suited 80s Genesis just fine.
A good example is the ambient Pink Floyd-ish outro to Home by the Sea where he and Banks both create a really cool atmosphere together, and on the following track. Just because they went mainstream doesn't mean they forgot how to play.
Good point on Rutherford's guitar playing! He is more than decent, and I especially enjoy his 12-sting work. I saw Daryl and Mike switch off on bass & guitar duties on the ATTWT tour, it was great! Both were excellent on both instruments! I've done that type of thing in my own bands.
I've always enjoyed reading up on interviews with prog keyboardists, as I am but a lowly prog bassist (and decent prog guitarist) who looks at the array of white & black keys, going "Huh??" About the only thing I play well is Mellotron, 'cause you only need a few fingers & know major & minor chords!!
Banks used the Polymoog on ATTWT, listen to how he "bends" the string chords in the song "Snowbound." In an interview, he said this is accomplished with a pedal.
The Polymoog was the first truly polyphonic synth, and he replaced Mellotron and some other keys with it. It makes for a rather amazing effect.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7530
Posted: February 15 2011 at 12:24
Anirml wrote:
The Novochord from the 1930's is amazing!
Just listen here
and this one
and this one
Thanks! That stuff is amazing!
Hey, how do I embed YouTube into this forum? That is better than dropping a link in!
Cool stuff, I always enjoy learning about the history of modern music! The VC3 synth was a big factor in early electronic stuff, and the Mellotron was based on the Chamberlin. There was another tape-beastie called the "choir organ" that is prominently used on "Wolf City" by Amon Duul 2!
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 887
Posted: February 16 2011 at 18:33
If you listen to really good, well-engineered and produced music, there is a lot happening per second. That is, sonically there is a lot of difficult to produce, complex information being flashed before your brain. Really good synth sounds are the same way. I don't think they will ever sound bad.
--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 436
Posted: February 17 2011 at 04:23
zravkapt wrote:
Analog synths are nowhere near as dated as the digital synths that were popular in the 1980s.
Compare the synths on the first two National Health albums with the ones used on their only '80s album D.S. al Coda.
Yes, I can agree on that.
The early digital synths sounded like horror. It took to the late 90's before they got the digital technology sounding right, in my opinion.
A bit of topic, but what annoys me a lot nowadays, is the use of electric piano/Fender Rhodes, that is so overused in chillout electronica and nu-jazz.
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Posted: February 17 2011 at 06:18
Rottenhat wrote:
zravkapt wrote:
Analog synths are nowhere near as dated as the digital synths that were popular in the 1980s.
Compare the synths on the first two National Health albums with the ones used on their only '80s album D.S. al Coda.
Yes, I can agree on that.
The early digital synths sounded like horror. It took to the late 90's before they got the digital technology sounding right, in my opinion.
A bit of topic, but what annoys me a lot nowadays, is the use of electric piano/Fender Rhodes, that is so overused in chillout electronica and nu-jazz.
I love Rhodes Piano, but it does seem that anyone ever plays one is automatically labeled as "jazzy", it doesn't matter what they're playing.
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Posted: February 17 2011 at 06:27
Who is they?
Guitar was present in most mainstream 80s music that I can think of, sure a lot of music gave synths a more dominant role but the guitar was there.
It wasn't until the invention of electronica and hip hop that popular musicians (outside of jazz) seemed to ditch guitars entirely. And the latter still uses guitar samples often.
Just about everything you can do with a guitar (without effects) has been done, I just find it stupid that people call synths dated when they have so much more f*cking potential than a 6 stringed piece of wood.
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34098
Posted: February 17 2011 at 10:13
I would add one often negelected musician to the list of important controbutionist in the development of both analog, semi-analog, aucustic, semi electric, electric and digital klaviatur instrument
like one of the best showcases of ARP-synths
here every instrument is Elton, grand piano, mellotrons, farfisa
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
Posted: February 17 2011 at 10:24
boo boo wrote:
Who is they?
Guitar was present in most mainstream 80s music that I can think of, sure a lot of music gave synths a more dominant role but the guitar was there.
It wasn't until the invention of electronica and hip hop that popular musicians (outside of jazz) seemed to ditch guitars entirely. And the later still uses guitar samples often.
Just about everything you can do with a guitar (without effects) has been done, I just find it stupid that people call synths dated when they have so much more f*cking potential than a 6 stringed piece of wood.
sarcastic 80's hate obviously doesn't shine through in text form
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 436
Posted: February 17 2011 at 11:44
boo boo wrote:
Rottenhat wrote:
zravkapt wrote:
Analog synths are nowhere near as dated as the digital synths that were popular in the 1980s.
Compare the synths on the first two National Health albums with the ones used on their only '80s album D.S. al Coda.
Yes, I can agree on that.
The early digital synths sounded like horror. It took to the late 90's before they got the digital technology sounding right, in my opinion.
A bit of topic, but what annoys me a lot nowadays, is the use of electric piano/Fender Rhodes, that is so overused in chillout electronica and nu-jazz.
I love Rhodes Piano, but it does seem that anyone ever plays one is automatically labeled as "jazzy", it doesn't matter what they're playing.
Yes. Don't get me wrong i like Rhodes very much myself, but there is always the risk of inflation if you overuse it.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7530
Posted: February 17 2011 at 16:02
Fender Rhodes piano back in the '70's was a wonder! I liked how Chick Corea used it in early RTF, check out their LP "Where Have I Known You Before?" for a taste of some excellent Rhodes. It also made a damn nice bass, as evidenced by The Doors and others. I think John Paul Jones uses Fender Rhodes for some of the bass in the beginning of "Stairway to Heaven."
Rhodes achieved a sound very much like the orchestra "celeste" instrument. Very bell-like tone. I don't know what modern-day musicians are doing with them, as I don't listen to much modern music it seems!
One of my favorite "dated" analog synths was the amazing Prophet 5. That mother sounded HUGE! Basically like a 5-note polyphonic mini-Moog.
I'm not sure what you kids are calling "dated" sounds (I'm 55). Can you be more specific? For example, Keith Emerson's MiniMoog solo on Lucky Man was a classic Moog setting with square-wave waveform, using a bit of portamento. What's wrong with that?
The more "dated" something sounds, the more I like it! Heavy wah-wah pedal.....check out the guitar in "The King Will Come" by Wishbone Ash!!
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 19405
Posted: February 18 2011 at 04:27
boo boo wrote:
People riff on Tony Bank's ARP synth all the time, I really don't know what those people are smoking because I think ARP synth is goddamn awesome. His synth solos are my favorite thing about Genesis and that's saying a lot.
If anything, I actually think the ARP sounds less dated than other synths popular in the 70s, and yes that includes the moog. I find Banks' synth work to be pretty timeless, it doesn't sound "70s" to me at all. If anything I consider Genesis the least 70s sounding of the big prog bands of that era, save maybe King Crimson.
The Gabriel years are certainly very "70s" compared to Trick through Three.
Tony's synth work is great stuff and if you don't have his Soundtracks album with music from Quicksilver/Lorca, you should track down a copy.
It seems rather ironic that the question is raised at all. Given that the biggest selling soft synths bought by an entire generation of computer musicians are that of replications of the Minimoog, ARP soloist, Mellotron, Fender Rhodes, Hammond Organ etc it seems self evident that young musicians want dated!!???
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