| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
laplace 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
|
 Posted: September 14 2008 at 20:22 |
|
re: thread title
yes
|
 |
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: September 15 2008 at 04:53 |
 Peter wrote:
 The problem here is with your use of "most." There is simply no credible, objective way to measure or establish this in such a case.
|
Obviously, with anything musical, we can only be certain of a degree of objectivity - we can never make an absolute statement (can we say anything absolute about anything really...  ?).
So we look for things we can build relatively saft assumptions on - for example, if we can identify more bands that show a clear Pink Floyd influence than influences by anyone else, then the assertion can be made with reasonable confidence - and few objections - that Pink Floyd were "the most influential".
Peter wrote:
Were Pink Floyd a very influential prog band?
certainly
|
This assumption is presumably based on your listening experience (which is probably greater than most, I would suspect), and it's hard not to concur, when you hear "A Saucerful of Secrets", "Astronomy Domine", "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun", etc., in the music of many late 1960s bands, and "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" (among others!) in the music of even more post 1976 bands right up to the current day - even into pop music, where I hear their influence in big-selling acts such as Radiohead, Keane and Coldplay, as well as acts more widely regarded as Prog.
Peter wrote:
Were other prog bands, such as Genesis and King Crimson, also very influential?
undoubtedly
|
My gut feeling is that there are less bands that show influence by either than by Pink Floyd.
It's easy to rattle off a few obvious names, but I rather suspect that the Floyd would generate a list longer than Genesis and Crimson combined. I certainly can't think of any mainstream acts that show a clear influence by either.
Peter wrote:
I think you are letting your preference for one band (that is, personal taste -- bias) get in the way of sound reasoning and logic. You should reserve the use of absolute terms like "most" for things which can be objectively measured, such as rainfall, or money. 
(Even your use of "possibly" in your initial post weakens your position, and tacitly acknowledges that such things can't be ascertained.) |
It looks like a reasonble premise to me - of course it can't be 100% ascertained (but neither can anything else... I don't really want to go down the cheesey old philosphical path here), but a statistical likelihood could be determined by making lists (there are lies, damned lies, etc.  ).
At the very least, it's an interesting discussion question that merits a little digging down;
Would you say that Genesis or Crimson influenced more bands than Floyd (as a starter for 10?) Which are the first Genesis/Crimson influenced bands that come to mind (bonus points for each band)? 
|
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
Floydoid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2007
Location: Planet Prog
Status: Offline
Points: 2397
|
Posted: September 15 2008 at 13:50 |
Chris Stacey wrote:
Pink Floyd ... the most influencial prog band ever ... of course! 
Do bears sh&t in the woods.......of course |
Absolutely... now here's a question - would techno & ambient have existed without the Floydian influence? Pink Floyd did more than influence other bands... IMO they inspired whole new genres of music. And made the world a better place.
Edited by Floydoid - September 16 2008 at 04:57
|
|
"Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour
|
|
jazzraptor
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 15 2008
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 43
|
Posted: September 15 2008 at 16:20 |
|
. . . . PEACE . . . .
Edited by jazzraptor - September 15 2008 at 16:24
|
|
tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
|
Posted: September 15 2008 at 18:12 |
|
When you think of it in terms of legacy and history, this is an inane thread . A band that has been around for so long can only be an influence , just like the Who, the Stones (yuck), Yes, KC , Tull etc..... A large body of timeless work encompassing psychedelia, blues-based space and extended rock jams is bound to have a profound effect. Hey, very few bands came and went witha huge impact (Sex Pistols I guess, if you want to call THAT prog?)
|
|
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
|
|
Joe Rockhead
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 20
|
Posted: September 15 2008 at 19:06 |
|
No, but they're among the top 10. No band in this genre stands alone as the most influential seeing that each had their own distinct sound. Theses include Genesis, Yes, ELP, etc..... They did have the most influential lighting shows from what I've heard. Never seen them live. Great group, great music, but unfortunate that British groups hate each other after a decade or so.
|
|
J Rockhead
|
|
Lionheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 106
|
Posted: September 16 2008 at 19:21 |
|
I think Pink Floyd is *one* of many bands that were very influential in prog. But to say that they were the *most* influential band is sorta missing the point.
Bands are made of musicians. A lot of prog musicians are classically trained. That would, at least, suggest that a lot of classical composers/classical forms of music are *as* influential in prog as any rock band (and this includes *any* of them, including Pink Floyd).
Pink Floyd's biggest contribution to prog is their "psychedelic" tendencies (which is more about production and effects), not their style of composition.
|
|
Floydoid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2007
Location: Planet Prog
Status: Offline
Points: 2397
|
Posted: September 17 2008 at 04:44 |
|
I personally think that in the history of rock music, Pink Floyd have inspired more budding musicians than any other British act, with the possible exception of The Beatles. It has been said that when Paul McCartney & John Lennon visited the Floyd's studio as they were recording Piper (and the Beatles were down the corridor working on Sgt Pepper) that they saw this new band at taking music to levels they could only dream of... as if they were passing on the mantle.
|
|
"Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour
|
|
Daniel1974nl
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 21 2008
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 53
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 06:14 |
We cannot deny the fact that Pink Floyd was extremely influential inwithin the Progessive Rock scene. Only listen to Nick Barret or Steven Rothery's guitarplaying. And this are just 2 obvious examples. Also quite interesting is DT performing the entire Dark Side Of The Moon, Anathema playing Comfortably Numb, Pallas playing Echoes and so I can go on. But I believe the influence goes furter. Think about the idea of making concept albums, adding sound effects, exploting six track recording, emphasise visual spectaculair shows, using quadrophonic sound and so I can go on. Pink Floyd indeed did alot of good to the genre that we define now as progressive rock music. And on top of that we atleast can say that it was the biggest selling / money making machine in Progressive Rock.
But......even Pink Floyd stood on the shoulders of Giants. And that......goes back to 2 bands.....namely The Beatles and Cream. The Beatles.....Revolver....which was a major inspriration to Barret to make The Piper Possible McCartney even jammed along for a few tunes and so did Barrett on St. Pepper, but since they never had any credits we can never be sure (The only guest appearance that ever got credited was Eric Clapton on The White Album for While My Guitar Gently Weeps). Alot of bands in that time were extremely interested in what the Beatles were doing (read any biography and (Chapter and Verse, Pigs Might Fly, Clapton's biography......) and you know what I mean. To me the Beatles do appear time and time again as the most creative, innovative and influential band in the history of music. If there ever been one band that changed music forever then it were the Beatles. And with that also Pink Floyd. Its so obvious that they were all hooked to The Beatles.
The Other major influence was Cream. the improvisations they did on stage, must have insprired many many bands to follow in their footsteps and do the same. Pink Floyd in the beginning showed very much resemblances.....very long songs...long improvisations.....severe drug use.....on stage....but in the studio they made relatively short songs...which a simular structure and in some moments simplicity.
Now for influencing Genesis.....I think that this comes from The Beatles (Tony refers interestingly to Rubber Soul in Chapter and Verse) but ofcourse also The White Album (the black cover from From Genesis To Revelation was a direct respond on the white cover of The White album). Apart from that they also were huge fans of Cream. But for Genesis the real influence comes from bands as King Crimson (Hackett confirms in Chapter and verse : I tried to see as much concerts of them as I could) and another even states that KC was what they wanted to sound like as we'll. This makes sense...if they listen to the Mellotron sounds both bands were producing. Another band is The Nice (listen to it, and then switch right to the Knife)....a song as the Knife in the beginning even called The Nice. Another band that the members of Genesis often come up with is Rare Bird, but Im not familiar with them, so I can't judge on that. According to a friend of mine it was also an album (Odessey and Oracle) of the Zombies that inspired Banks to use a Mellotron also.
And....Van Der Graaf Generator. In Chapter and Verse you can read so often that it was VDGG that thought them all those things, like how to organize a tour, how to built up a setlist and so on. So lets say...the more practical side of it.
And Yes....I recenly thought that the vocals of Anderson so often was like Crosby Stills Nash & Young.
Anyway...all in all I want to say is.....you cannot channel down everything down to one band...its not like a tree upside down that will lead to one centre. But its a tree that leads to many different roots. Unfortunatly...many of them are already long forgotten. I guess in that perspectice Foucault was right in stating that you can never trace it down...but it will only lead you on new paths and questions.
As being a historian and a philosopher myself.....I have often thought about tracing the historical roots of progressive rock music and write a book about it. But its a life long mission for sure. Its often so difficult to see why a certain album was regarded as so revolutionary....and why all people of that period were so delirious about it. We have been to much spoiled with all that great stuff that came after, but also we are tortured by it, cos it will lock us out forever to enter the minds of those who lived in that time and decide to make music their main profession.
And what too many of you keep on doing is go out from the concept of progressive rock as a we'll defined concept (if Pink Floyd should be Prog or not, ofcourse not, they were just making music and were exploring the border of music, of what was possible...that this eventually became that what we now call prog...is not their way of looking at things. Not ours.) We label things.......so that we can define and get a hold of it better but in that time....I have no doubt no-one used the word progressive the way we are using it now. They were just making music......by pure inspiration....hallucination....or whatever you wish...but not in terms like...oh, lets record this cos then its Prog. I absolutely agree that bands after lets say 1980 would do exactly that...but before that.....the borders of what can be called Prog were not defined yet and therefor anything could be called progressive. And also do not forget that now.....bands must sell records....and are over that severely restricted in their creative process...there is always the recordcompany that is breathing closely in the neck of any bandmember to make a new album......and not to fool around, try new things and take your time untill you have recieved enough inspiration and have pollished up your songs untill they are indeed the songs you want. Only a few bands are abble to efford a status like that (Think of Genesis, Pink Floyd....and obviously Peter Gabriel (no one is so slow as he), but also Roger Waters is a really good example.
Now for beginning bands its so extremely difficult to get your feet on the ground. I done a Progressive Rock radioshow for 5 years and meet so many truly amazing bands and what I kept on wondering is....why do they give bands as Quidam, Everon, IQ or even Dream Theater or Marillion such a hard time...make it so difficult to record and album or get a contract.....while all recordcompanies are all in a que to release the new Britney Spears, Nelly or Backstreet Boys. If there is one thing you can say of Progressive rock musicians than its that most of them make music by heart, neither as homage or by inspiration.....but they do not tend to fabricate something only to become famous.
|
|
DocJ
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 14 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 27
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 10:44 |
I think Pink Floyd is not only the most influential prgressive rock band, but they are the greatest progressive rock band.
|
|
Daniel1974nl
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 21 2008
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 53
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 10:49 |
|
One of the 4....for sure. But there is Genesis, Yes, King Crimson and too. What we can say (no matter if they are Prog bands or not) is that they really inspired legions of bands. To begin with neo-prog....but certainly also all the other bands.....as Swedish bands for example. Anekdoten - King Crimson or Yes / Genesis - Flower Kings
|
|
GlassPrison68
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 25 2008
Location: Richmond IL.
Status: Offline
Points: 17
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 13:32 |
Although I do believe that Pink Floyd is the most influential prog band, the point made on page one that said bands have been influenced by bands that were influenced by PF does not mean anything, cause if we think like that than really everybody's been influenced by Bach. 
|
|
Let the progsters find you and
beat you in 7/8 time!
-Jordan Rudess
|
|
Sunny In Jeddah
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 18 2008
Location: IslamAin'tSoBad
Status: Offline
Points: 90
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 13:43 |
|
I'd dare say that PF actually influenced more non-prog bands than prog bands
|
|
|
|
Joe Rockhead
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 20
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 14:04 |
|
Bravo but what about the Beatles ??? they went from rock n roll to some of the weirdist stuff we've ever heard "I'am The Walrus" Floyd were good but the accolades sometimes are too much
|
|
J Rockhead
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 15:33 |
GlassPrison68 wrote:
Although I do believe that Pink Floyd is the most influential prog band, the point made on page one that said bands have been influenced by bands that were influenced by PF does not mean anything, cause if we think like that than really everybody's been influenced by Bach. |
That point is just one of many - it's not an important one in itself - but the fact that Floyd have influenced many Prog bands, including the "Classics" is relevant.
The influence of Floyd is certainly more noticeable than Bach in those bands... anyway, Bach just ripped off the Italians, who ripped off the French - and somewhere along the line a huge debt is owed to Ug the caveman for inventing ROCK music...
Joe Rockhead wrote:
Bravo but what about the Beatles ??? they went from rock n roll to some of the weirdist stuff we've ever heard "I'am The Walrus" Floyd were good but the accolades sometimes are too much |
It's rather telling that "Magical Mystery Tour" was released AFTER Piper at the Gates of Dawn - which was being recorded in the same building, at the same time, as Sgt Pepper.
Even the wierd stuff on Revolver, with the backwards loops, could be partly attributable to Floyd - who the Beatles went to see live (McCartney famously so) - although the Beatles (again, particularly McCartney) also attended festivals or "Raves" of Electronic music, featuring such luminaries as Delia Derbyshire and David Vorhaus.
Everyone influenced everyone else - the Beatles were a strong influence on and stongly influenced by The Byrds, Dylan and The Beach Boys - and there was a thriving underground "Garage" Scene, in which the use of wierd tape effects was not uncommon (Jason Crest as a perfect example), along with the Progressive Scene and/or the Underground Scene (it's hard to separate them), in which anything went - jazz influences, classical influences, the lot. Then you mix in the "Moderns" (Mods) and the ballistic explosion in electronic instruments and multi track studios, and that explains why 1966-67 was such a melting pot - and Floyd were in exactly the right place at the right time with the right music.
|
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
GlassPrison68
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 25 2008
Location: Richmond IL.
Status: Offline
Points: 17
|
Posted: November 26 2008 at 19:01 |
|
|
|
Let the progsters find you and
beat you in 7/8 time!
-Jordan Rudess
|
|
Jaja Macca
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 28 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 61
|
Posted: November 28 2008 at 02:22 |
I think that do not exist just one MOST influenced.
There are many main bands that can be calling THE BIG INFLUNCED ONES:
PINK FLOYD, YES, JETHRO TULL, KING CRIMSON, ELP and some others.
|
|
Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
|
Posted: November 28 2008 at 02:44 |
Oh bugger, this thread got bumped
|
|
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: November 28 2008 at 08:34 |
I think it was worth it, just because it gave me the chance to trot out my old "Ug the caveman invented Rock music" gag... 
|
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: November 28 2008 at 10:34 |
^ Yes Cert, Ug was certainly due for a revival, least we forget he also had a hand in Heavy Rock, but sadly peaked too early for Metal eventhough his vocal style was very influential on Death Metal.
damn. I'd avoided this thread for so long...
...but as I'm here:
Influence cannot be measured or weighed, it can only be assessed subjectively, and by that it is clouded by personal preferences and knowledge. I think Floyd are the greatest band in the world and have influenced me over the past 40 years in many ways (personal taste, outlook on life, my liking for other bands, how I wear my hair, why I spend too many hours on this site, which gigs I remember the most, which girls I dated [and why I got dumped in 1975], the name I gave my cat [Syd], the style of guitarists I most admire, the artwork I produce, the music I "compose", the album covers that impress me, my attraction to the dark side, the friends I made and even the hat I sometimes wear) - so my opinion is meaningless, but if they influenced me, then I'm sure they've influenced 1000s  .
|
|
What?
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band?
