Is Prog becoming Metal?

I'm out of this discussion. Sorry, but calling DEATH, ANGRA or NIGHTWISH a Progressive Metal band is simply crazy...
BTW: If a band progresses and/or changes its sound or is having the slightest progressive touch, why not adding PANTERA, HELSTAR, PESTILENCE, CRYPTOPSY, etc...

Well, believe a Metalhead: NIGHTWISH is not Progressive Metal...

Edited by Orion-GER - July 04 2006 at 06:08

Sorry, but you can't talk about Metalheads in general. And also it's a bit sick, if some people think they own the right to judge what's progressive or not. And if a band is progressive and has Metal roots, you can't automatically call it Progressive Metal, this is simply silly. But we had that already...

I some ways I can understand why a lot of prog bands are metal its hard for a prog band to get any recognition the risk of experimenting at a loss of audience does not bode well with the financial realities today, they have to have metal to sound cool and fashionable to get an audience and make enough money, IMO prog does not have a target audience its a mish mash of old and young of different walks of life, metal has a target audience which is easier for bands to focus and market themselves. Progressive Metal attracts the lowest common denominator because its loud and heavy, as well as some prog fans, a band thats just prog can't get as big audience unless they have a couple of hit singles.

Rocktopus wrote: Now that I have thought about it, I want to suggest that the PM team concentrates for a while on removing bands that shouldn't be, here instead of including more. I also think you should practice communicating with people that doesn't listen to prog-metal as much as you do. If you don't have 300 records with progressive house/Hip Hop/alternative country.. whatever, you will obviously fail to see all the differences and nuances that someone who does, do.

Rocktopus wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Rocktopus wrote: Modern progressive groups like Secret Chiefs 3 with their orchestral soundtracks, folk and ethnic/Indian percussion and melodies, cabaret music, avant-garde experiments, electronica and extreme-metal is also called prog-metal here. Very misleading. Secret Chiefs 3 is closer to RIO (or even Indo/Raga/Electronic Progessive...) They would probably be insulted if you told them they were prog-metal. The two (fantastic) Holy Wehm tracks are less dominant than the quasi Indian, Soundtrackish or electronic experimental instrumentals.  they would probably be equally insulted if you told them they were RIO, or any other predefined genre. Most experimental artists are difficult to pinpoint, and for the Secret Chiefs it depends on the album or even track. I'd say that the majority of their songs are not metal, and I'd have no problem with placing them in RIO/Avant-Prog. th Thank you for proving my point above, and for agreeing that prog metal should be divided into sub categories just like Prog Rock is. Then I suggest a whole, new Archive for it. It would make sense for all people who exclusively listen to either Rock or Metal ... for those of us which listen to both it wouldn't make any sense, and I'd like to think that that's the majority of users. Rocktopus wrote: New prog doesn't need to be hard dark or aggressive. Check out the rising american folk-prog scene with Faun Fables, Sufjan Stevens (when will he be added?) Apparently few people know these artists. Suggest them to the teams that are responsible for those genres - don't accuse the PM team, we can't be held responsible for non-metal additions. That was just a tip for Peter or whoever. I'm not exlusively listening to Metal, in case you didn't notice. And PLEASE forward these bands to the appropriate team, so that there is a chance that they might be included. Rocktopus wrote: I grew up with complex thrash and death-metal as a teenager, and still love plenty of bands in that genre a lot. But I have no urge to try and get them incuded in the archives. Simply because they don't belong here. Why are they bothering you so much? Only because you think that they don't belong here, you want them removed from the archives ... what about the people who do think they belong here, which there are plenty of? Plenty of people can be wrong, (especially they come here as a young DT/prog-metal fan and wants to tell everyone what and who they think are prog) but I'm not that bothered. Just throwing myself into a discussion here about the future of prog, and who decides what is. "A young DT/prog-metal fan" ... do you know how old prog metal actually is? DT recently celebrated their 20 year anniversary ... Rocktopus wrote: BTW:Still can't believe the childish, pompous goth of Nightwish and Lacrimosa are here, and not progfolk pioneers Incredible String Band. The focus must clearly be wrong. Those two bands were added before the PM team was installed ... they would not have been accepted. Think about that ... Now that I have thought about it, I want to suggest that the PM team concentrates for a while on removing bands that shouldn't be, here instead of including more. NO BANDS WILL BE REMOVED! THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT, PLEASE TAKE THAT TO THE OWNERS. I also think you should practice communicating with people that doesn't listen to prog-metal as much as you do. If you don't have 300 records with progressive house/Hip Hop/alternative country.. whatever, you will obviously fail to see all the differences and nuances that someone who does, do. You also have to be open to the idea that because you are obsessed with this genre you have an objectivity problem. Meaning; you can also be wrong, not just everyone else. Don't tell me what music I'm listening to, or what I have in my CD collection - you don't know me. Thanks.

ivansfr0st wrote: Orion-GER wrote: @Ivan Hey, let's calm down, okay? Simply ask a common Death Metal fan, if DEATH is Death Metal or Progressive Metal. Easy as that...   Haha, sure, read this, spoken by a Death fan and a metalhead himself:   . Mantas is recommended to absolutely everyone, except for you progressive jizzrock faggots who idolize that crappy sh*t this band later began sh*tting out regularly. f**k off and die. Hail Mantas.      -- Ivan

That's the funniest and most vulgar review I've read in ages, thanks Ivan! 

Rocktopus wrote: BTW:Still can't believe the childish, pompous goth of Nightwish and Lacrimosa are here, and not progfolk pioneers Incredible String Band. The focus must clearly be wrong.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Those two bands were added before the PM team was installed ... they would not have been accepted. Think about that ...

Rocktopus wrote: Now that I have thought about it, I want to suggest that the PM team concentrates for a while on removing bands that shouldn't be, here instead of including more.

While i agree 110% on your qualification of Nightwish i don't think removing them or any other band from the Archives is a good idea. Thing is people made the effort to write reviews for this bands, it would be very disappointing for them if their work would be removed with the bands. As long as there are enough threads to discuss other genres (as in some of your own threads ) i don't really see the problem.

Cheesecakemouse wrote: I some ways I can understand why a lot of prog bands are metal its hard for a prog band to get any recognition the risk of experimenting at a loss of audience does not bode well with the financial realities today, they have to have metal to sound cool and fashionable to get an audience and make enough money, IMO prog does not have a target audience its a mish mash of old and young of different walks of life, metal has a target audience which is easier for bands to focus and market themselves. Progressive Metal attracts the lowest common denominator because its loud and heavy, as well as some prog fans, a band thats just prog can't get as big audience unless they have a couple of hit singles. So at the moment prog metal is quite a force but I wonder if it will be a fad a bit like neo prog was in the 80s? In some ways its good to have prog metal, it introduces the hardcore metal head to progressive music and may improve his/her overall musical appreciation and hopfully they may start to appreciate  bands like Genesis or else Jazz fusion even classical music, who knows?

I believe there is a lot of truth in this statement, Metal is the hype nowadays, you can see that in the booming of Metal festivals lately.


Edited by Dirk - July 04 2006 at 07:14

 

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Why are they bothering you so much? Only because you think that they don't belong here, you want them removed from the archives ... what about the people who do think they belong here, which there are plenty of?

Plenty of people can be wrong, (especially they come here as a young DT/prog-metal fan and wants to tell everyone what and who they think are prog) but I'm not that bothered. Just throwing myself into a discussion here about the future of prog, and who decides what is.

"A young DT/prog-metal fan" ... do you know how old prog metal actually is? DT recently celebrated their 20 year anniversary ...

A fan that is very young, and hasn't heard much prog, not metal related, yet. Not you, or the genre.

Rocktopus wrote: I also think you should practice communicating with people that doesn't listen to prog-metal as much as you do. If you don't have 300 records with progressive house/Hip Hop/alternative country.. whatever, you will obviously fail to see all the differences and nuances that someone who does, do. You also have to be open to the idea that because you are obsessed with this genre you have an objectivity problem. Meaning; you can also be wrong, not just everyone else. Don't tell me what music I'm listening to, or what I have in my CD collection - you don't know me. Thanks. Of course I know you have plenty of other stuff  in your collection. I wrote this because I think replying like you do here is wrong. Mike wrote: I'd love to respond ... but I won't, because you are generalising and bashing Prog Metal in your post, denying any possibility that some of it may be on the same artist level as Prog Rock. If to you all Prog Metal is simply "metal with keyboards", then there is no basis for discussion ... you wouldn't understand any of my arguments.(Underlining by me) So forgive me if I don't try to explain for the 42nd time why I think that Prog Rock and Prog Metal can get along fine ... instead I'll listen to the new Canvas Solaris album that I bought today ... interesting music BETWEEN Rock and Metal The people who disagrees with you might have a valid point even on a topic where you are the supposed specialist. Its natural for people to react on the dominance of prog-metal, especially when one often fails to see the progressiveness. You can't force Peter to become a metal specialist before you try to answer him in a less arrogant way. It seems he doesn't recognise the genre he's been loving most of his life, and generalizes to get the point across, while asking valid questions.   When I wrote that there's other prog like Faun Fables (that are in the archives) and Sufjan Stevens, it meant just that there is other sorts of new prog than metal. Just to suggest some bands I like for Peter. Not complaining. You might disagree in everything I write, but if you reread my first posts not as personal attacks on you (which it is not intended to be at all), or the PM team it will probably be very different. I'm not comfortable discussing this anymore. I feel that you (want to) misunderstand everything I write, while you probably feel the same way the other way around.  We will never agree on this anyway, so I guess its better to just stop.

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