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Why is prog rock always called "snooty"?

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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 04:56
Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
 
I couldn't agree more and it's good to see another new member here from merry old England. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 04:56
I really enjoyed all the posts and comments regarding punk and the music media from Iain, Dean, Madan and Lewian. Thumbs Up To say I learned a few things would be a bit of an understatement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 05:26
Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
 
Nuff said man! Clap
And, except the punkers, anyone back then would take for granted that anarchist attitude just for the sake of it wouldn't ever go far...... Tongue
.


Edited by Tillerman88 - December 06 2019 at 05:41
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Anstey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anstey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:17
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
Seriously? Tell that to the surviving members of the Clash and the Sex Pistols. As much as we prog fans hate to admit it, Punk (either real or pseudo) has left an indelible mark on rock music.
 
As far as music "going back to basics", it never had to. Bands like the Seeds, and other garage rockers from the 60s, kept it going long before 1974.
I couldn't care less what those "survivng members" have to say. Punk wasn't only musically insignificant but also plagiarism.






But punks weren't buried due to plagiarism. On the contrary, punks were "allowed" to rip off whatever they want and being proclaimed as a "new big thing".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:27
Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
Seriously? Tell that to the surviving members of the Clash and the Sex Pistols. As much as we prog fans hate to admit it, Punk (either real or pseudo) has left an indelible mark on rock music.
 
As far as music "going back to basics", it never had to. Bands like the Seeds, and other garage rockers from the 60s, kept it going long before 1974.
I couldn't care less what those "survivng members" have to say. Punk wasn't only musically insignificant but also plagiarism.
But punks weren't buried due to plagiarism. On the contrary, punks were "allowed" to rip off whatever they want and being proclaimed as a "new big thing".


As if prog never ripped off other genres. When you return with a sensible argument, I'll be happy to consider it.

Edited by SteveG - December 06 2019 at 06:30
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:39
^^ Punk-Rock has left more of a nasty stain on music rather than "an indelible mark" Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:42
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

never heard the music called snooty..

now its fans..prog heads... oh yeah.. that is another thing LOL
No truer words ever spoken.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:45
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Quote
It is probably also important that the attitude of some of the prog audience (and maybe some musicians) had changed. Or rather maybe there were various kinds of prog audience from the beginning. The end 60s and in countries that were a bit behind the early 70s were in some sense like the beginning of punk; it was a liberating and encouraging climate for everyone who wanted to play music. Take the beginnings of Amon Düül. In the beginning it was just, let's play some music, try whatever instrument you want, no skill, education and knowledge necessary. Amon Düül I's albums are all like this. Amon Düül II became more ambitious and later some of their musicians became very good, but on the Phallus Dei album they're still very pedestrian. Their beginning is the same though, spontaneous jamming out of the desire to do music and listening experience, no other background. Surely other bands that are listed here have a similar story. And the audience went with it. It was spontaneous and fun. By the way, legendary German proto-punk band Ton Steine Scherben was founded in 1970 and belonged to that same culture initially, and later became punk icons in Germany. As somebody wrote before, prog was rebellion. Later in the 70s a larger part of the prog audience went for admiring skill and complexity and part of them looked down on music that didn't have that. Probably these people looked down on early Amon Düül as well. I love a great deal of prog from later in the seventies and even early eighties, but it was pretty clear that in this way some of the prog culture had lost touch with the rebellious sentiment of the next generation. The issue is not how good some of the prog virtuosos were and that it was hard to get at their level, the issue was rather that many of those who were still proggers looked down on who didn't want to go that way. And I actually think that one thing the music press got right was to part company with these people.    


I don't agree with your perspective at all. I think you're mis-identifying who the aggressors were. The only Prog musician I can think of that might have been prone to public condescension would have been Frank Zappa. I don't know of anyone who had a greater superiority complex than him, but he liked all sorts of music.

Surely it was more certain fans than the musicians (I didn't mean the term "progger" to refer to musicians in the first place). Regarding musicians I can't point the finger at anyone in particular but I remember having read negative opinions about punk and the musical tastes of the new generation of fans and musicians in interviews at the time. Maybe not that many. Surely I didn't mean Zappa. Chances are Frank Bornemann (Eloy) had the odd bitter comment on why the media would shred his music to tears and celebrate stuff that had much less to offer, but admittedly he was reacting on what the media did, and at least regarding his own music he was right pointing out that it was treated unfairly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anstey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:50
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
Seriously? Tell that to the surviving members of the Clash and the Sex Pistols. As much as we prog fans hate to admit it, Punk (either real or pseudo) has left an indelible mark on rock music.
 
As far as music "going back to basics", it never had to. Bands like the Seeds, and other garage rockers from the 60s, kept it going long before 1974.
I couldn't care less what those "survivng members" have to say. Punk wasn't only musically insignificant but also plagiarism.
But punks weren't buried due to plagiarism. On the contrary, punks were "allowed" to rip off whatever they want and being proclaimed as a "new big thing".


As if prog never ripped off other genres. When you return with a sensible argument, I'll be happy to consider it.
LOL is it the same old story? I mean, when a prog-rock artist is inspired by e.g. Genesis, it's plagiarism, but when the punks build up the whole "genre" on two or three stolen songs, then that's the inspiration? Give me a break man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:52
Me , snooty? Perhaps, just because I think that any non scientific POV is dangerous, does that make me snooty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:54
Some people prove a point there... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 07:09
Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Anstey Anstey wrote:


Weren't punkers "snooty" actually? Weren't they considered themselves being something special?
No more than any other rock stars of that era.
Well perhaps, but unlike punkers, the real rock stars had a convincing "apology" for that attitude - so many great songs & albums of all genres. What punks achieved in 1976-1977, aside of all that hysteria made by the media? Nothing musically significant, I'm afraid. Just another "back to basics" that was nothing new as pub-rock went popular among hipsters already in 1973.
Seriously? Tell that to the surviving members of the Clash and the Sex Pistols. As much as we prog fans hate to admit it, Punk (either real or pseudo) has left an indelible mark on rock music.
 
As far as music "going back to basics", it never had to. Bands like the Seeds, and other garage rockers from the 60s, kept it going long before 1974.
I couldn't care less what those "survivng members" have to say. Punk wasn't only musically insignificant but also plagiarism.
But punks weren't buried due to plagiarism. On the contrary, punks were "allowed" to rip off whatever they want and being proclaimed as a "new big thing".


As if prog never ripped off other genres. When you return with a sensible argument, I'll be happy to consider it.
LOL is it the same old story? I mean, when a prog-rock artist is inspired by e.g. Genesis, it's plagiarism, but when the punks build up the whole "genre" on two or three stolen songs, then that's the inspiration? Give me a break man.
I gave you a break. It was to come up with a sensible argument. You didn't. Break time is over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 07:10
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Me , snooty? Perhaps, just because I think that any non scientific POV is dangerous, does that make me snooty?
LOL Makes me think that we're discussing art.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 07:52
Btw, does anyone else here think that King Crimson never ripped off other genres when they created ItCotCK? Just curious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 10:26
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Btw, does anyone else here think that King Crimson never ripped off other genres when they created ItCotCK? Just curious.

You will get some smart arse who will claim that it is derived from a hour long epic performed by the congo delta pygmy tribe of limomo which was performed when the tribe caught a naughty crocodile.....

Edited by M27Barney - December 06 2019 at 10:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 10:32
^ Or a smart arse could simply say that KC created the genres of Classical, Folk Rock, Jazz Fusion and the Advant Garde, which never really existed previously. I was speaking of genre appropriation Barney, not note per note plagiarism. But it wouldn't surprise me if that existed too, albeit accidentally.

Edited by SteveG - December 06 2019 at 10:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 11:45
^^ If the Congo delta pygmy tribe of Limomo can produce music as good as King Crimson, then I'd really like to hear them.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 12:04
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^^ If the Congo delta pygmy tribe of Limomo can produce music as good as King Crimson, then I'd really like to hear them.  Wink
 
Hey don't be that "snooty" .... the truth is the other way round: King Crimson can produce music as good as the Congo delta pygmy tribe of Limomo, albeit accidentallyLOLLOL


Edited by Tillerman88 - December 06 2019 at 12:11
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 12:20

Originally posted by Tillerman88 Tillerman88 wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^^ If the Congo delta pygmy tribe of Limomo can produce music as good as King Crimson, then I'd really like to hear them.  Wink
 
Hey don't be that "snooty" .... the truth is the other way round: King Crimson can produce music as good as the Congo delta pygmy tribe of Limomo, albeit accidentallyLOLLOL
That's no stretch. Can Crimson do Anarchy In The UK as good as the Sex Pistols, accidentally or not? Now that's the question. Smile


Edited by SteveG - December 06 2019 at 13:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2019 at 13:48
I know somebody who was ACTUALLY at the famous free trade hall concert,...PUNK was fun while it lasted, thrash metal was launched off its raw power...and I enjoyed those gigs as a teenager...weird times...but prog gigs always beat the raw power...
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