Dream Theater - the reasons - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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diseasedmind View Drop Down

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Joined: March 30 2005
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Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:19

Valarius wrote:

I love you.

I love you too man

This Dying Soul

diseasedmind View Drop Down

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Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:21

well for one thing their masters of their instruments, if u deny that your f**king stupid

This Dying Soul

Reed Lover View Drop Down

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Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:22

diseasedmind wrote:

Valarius wrote:

I love you.

I love you too man

Dead

i_am_gonna_vomit

Wink

diseasedmind View Drop Down

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Joined: March 30 2005
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Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:29

Certif1ed wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

They ARE musical geniouses whever you like it or not

No they aren't.

What exactly is it that they do that is genius?

You like them, fair enough.

But genius is a bit strong to describe some shredding, some ballads and a few Metallica riffs

im sorry thats just ignorance, saying just shredding, prooves your jealous,they dont just shred, and u cnat shred a keyboard anyways

a few metallica riffs, thats bullsh*t, i cant think of anywhere they nick a tallica riff, peruvian skies is abit like metallica, but not exactly the same.
I'm not just saying their geniouses cause i like em, but they just are!
I think, prog fans dont like dt cause their metal, ooohhh shock horror!!! they must be bad their their metal!!!

This Dying Soul

diseasedmind View Drop Down

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Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:31

Reed Lover wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

Valarius wrote:

I love you.

I love you too man

Dead

i_am_gonna_vomit

Wink

yeah, dude its called a joke

This Dying Soul

Reed Lover View Drop Down

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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
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Points: 5187

Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:40

diseasedmind wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

Valarius wrote:

I love you.

I love you too man

Dead

i_am_gonna_vomit

Wink

yeah, dude its called a joke

yeah,dude and so's the link.... Wink

diseasedmind View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: March 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11

Posted: April 15 2005 at 18:40

Reed Lover wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

Valarius wrote:

I love you.

I love you too man

Dead

i_am_gonna_vomit

Wink

yeah, dude its called a joke

yeah,dude and so's the link.... Wink

lol

This Dying Soul

mr_freeze338 View Drop Down

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Joined: March 31 2005
Location: Canada
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Points: 28

Posted: April 15 2005 at 19:10

"most bands write their own riffs, however"

Again with the accusitions. Let's see Metallica rip off Dream Theater. Give me a break, they write their own riffs.... why would they want to copy anything when they're that good?

"DT don't play prog on Images and Words, they play mid 1980's style metal with keyboards and ballads. I have yet to hear any actual prog from DT."

They're on this site for a reason. They are being just as innovative as any other prog rock band today, if not more. DT continue to redifine themselves. Their next album's going to have a mix of blue grass in it, actually.

"Read what I said again - did I mention DT in that paragraph?"

You implied it. What else would "It's crap alright!" be directed to? And why make that paragraph in the first place if it's irrelevant?

"You are avoiding the "technical stuff", you know. You're trying to take this discussion into an opinions exchange instead of focussing on the actual subject of this thread."

The subject being: reasons why certain people don't like DT. I think we've established that 1. certain people just don't like the sound, 2. certain people just don't like their harmonies, 3. certain people just don't like their melodies... and so forth.

This is an opinions exchange in either case. Concerning the technical aspects, opinions are divided. They sound good to some, not so much to others.

goose

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Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097

Posted: April 15 2005 at 19:58

diseasedmind wrote:

well for one thing their masters of their instruments, if u deny that your f**king stupid

The only undeniable mastery of instruments they have is speed - as I've said before, they certainly do seem to know their stuff in regards to playing but on their records tend too much towards playing fast (NB I still like Dream Theater!). And if speed is all you need then Nitro'd be a good band.

Incidentally, what do any Dream Theater fans think of http://audiolunchbox.com/preview.mp3?i=286752? If anyone's playing fast for the sake of it it's that. I'll admit I like the band (Orthrelm), although that sample's not all that good an example of their work.

diseasedmind View Drop Down

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 05:50

Its not just speed, its just the fact that they ARE damn good at what they play!
for example...another day, doesnt have a particulary fast solo, well it does in one place, but the solo itself is quite slow, yet i rate that to be one of their for the simple fact that its a damn decent solo...
Thats what seperates JP from say...malmsteen, who i personnaly cant stand but thats a different story, malmsteen always plays at lightning speed, where as jp varies, and he can play fast, so why stop him?

If you could play as fast as him you'd wanna do it wouldnt you?

This Dying Soul

Richardw

Prog Reviewer

Joined: December 10 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 762

Posted: April 16 2005 at 06:19

1. I like Dream Theater.

2. If You don't; fair enough. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

3. Er, that's it really.

tuxon

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Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
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Points: 5502

Posted: April 16 2005 at 06:30

Richardw wrote:

1. I like Dream Theater.

2. If You don't; fair enough. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

3. Er, that's it really.

Should suffice

I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT

Radioactive Toy View Drop Down

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Joined: March 06 2004
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Posted: April 16 2005 at 06:32

Certif1ed wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

I will be reviewing "Scenes from a Memory - Metropolis Part II" when I can stomach more listens - I hardly ever judge an album on 1st listen unless there's something special about it

Give us a shout when you are going in for another listen-and we'll hold a candlelight vigil. LOL

reed is the progarchives eric cartman...

Reed's failed joke counter:
|||||
R.I.P. You could have reached infinity....

oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 06:36

Certif1ed wrote:

diseasedmind wrote:

They ARE musical geniouses whever you like it or not

No they aren't.

What exactly is it that they do that is genius?

You like them, fair enough.

But genius is a bit strong to describe some shredding, some ballads and a few Metallica riffs

Maria carey is a great genius, so.

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 07:04

Reed Lover wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

I will be reviewing "Scenes from a Memory - Metropolis Part II" when I can stomach more listens - I hardly ever judge an album on 1st listen unless there's something special about it

Give us a shout when you are going in for another listen-and we'll hold a candlelight vigil. LOL

Hey,Cert Angry

That monkey looks just like me! Cry

And I have no friends Cry Cry

And Snow Dawg says I'm not even amusing Cry Cry

Tongue

There there Reed...you are amusing...of course you are!

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 07:06

Richardw wrote:

1. I like Dream Theater.

2. If You don't; fair enough. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

3. Er, that's it really.

And may I add, who cares if they are prog or not? Does it matter as long as you like it? It's only a pigeonhole anyway.

oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 07:09

Of course, you're free to like it.
But this site is devoted to progressive music and no to teenage skater music. That's all.

Metropolis View Drop Down

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 07:13

^ well, there's an intelligent, reasoned argument if ever i heard one

We Lost the Skyline............

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 07:17

oliverstoned wrote:

Of course, you're free to like it.
But this site is devoted to progressive music and no to teenage skater music. That's all.

You make me laugh..or cry! Teenage skater music? Do you even know what youre talking about?

Certif1ed

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Posted: April 16 2005 at 09:04

mr_freeze338 wrote:

"most bands write their own riffs, however"

Again with the accusitions. Let's see Metallica rip off Dream Theater. Give me a break, they write their own riffs.... why would they want to copy anything when they're that good?

It's not an accusation - it's a fact on Images and Words. I told you you couldn't handle the facts. Anyway I'M TEASING!!! (partially), just like I sometimes tease ELP fans about Kieth playing with boxing gloves, or Greg singing out of tune - both are true, but neither matter to ELP fans. You should read what Yes fans say about their favourite band when pushed on the flaws. They're deeply honest - but that doesn't change their opinion.

DT do write some of their own riffs, I think... As I've said earlier, I've only heard Images and Words, so I have limited ALL my comments to that album.

"Good" is subjective. I don't like them, so they're not good to me. I can also state technical reasons for not liking them - but that's subjective too, to an extent. Getting into the technicalities helps to provide reasons, so that DT fans can at least begin to understand why not everyone on the planet thinks they're the best band ever.

"DT don't play prog on Images and Words, they play mid 1980's style metal with keyboards and ballads. I have yet to hear any actual prog from DT."

I'm not disputing their place in the archives - I'm finding reasons why people don't like DT, as per the topic of this thread. Again, I was talking about a single album.

Blue grass isn't prog

"Read what I said again - did I mention DT in that paragraph?"

You implied it. What else would "It's crap alright!" be directed to? And why make that paragraph in the first place if it's irrelevant?

Nope - not even vaguely implied it, matey - but if the cap fits...

That paragraph was totally relevant to a generalism you made... I can't be bothered to go back and find it.

"You are avoiding the "technical stuff", you know. You're trying to take this discussion into an opinions exchange instead of focussing on the actual subject of this thread."

This is an opinions exchange in either case. Concerning the technical aspects, opinions are divided. They sound good to some, not so much to others.

If everybody just said "It sounds good to me" or "It doesn't sound good to me", there'd be no point discussing it!

Any discussion on music is going to be an opinions exchange - obviously. However, the yardsticks I mentioned are ways of showing weak compositional techniques - not ways of getting to the absolute truth - except for form.

Form in prog music is one of the most important aspects that helps differentiate it from conventional songs - or we'd all be listening to pop music. Timbre is quite important too - most old school proggers like a Mellotron or a Hammond, for example, or the "nostalgic" texture and feel of an early Genesis album, or "ITCOTCK", perhaps. Much prog also relies on "scrunchy" harmony - using 6ths, minor 7ths, 11ths, 13ths and so forth. You tend not to get many of those in a barre chord. Rhythm is about more than precision 11/4 time - this is where it gets more fluffy, but Can, Genesis and Gong are superb examples of rhythmic complexity with feeling. Melody is the hardest, but again, Genesis are perfect examples - e.g. "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" and Camel too - Andy Latimer is practically a superlative for melody.

Leveraging additional means of measurement is simply a way to back up an opinion.

Opinions are divided over the technical aspects, because people that recognise technicalities in music can hear the flaws. Again, these may be boiled down to opinion - any art can. The point is that there is more than one way to discuss and appreciate music - just like fine wines or whiskies.

"Nice" doesn't do justice to an 18-year old bottle of Glenmorangie, for example.

"Images and Words" is like Spanish plonk - OK to drink, I suppose, if there's nothing else.

It's only a discussion - don't sweat it because other people don't share your opinions and are prepared to state exactly why; That's the purpose of a discussion forum.