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Clark Ashton 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 133
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 Topic: Script For A Jester's Tear#25 & Lamb Lies Down #80
Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:36 |
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I don't post very much on the forum because I have no interest in arguing with people over personel opinion. But, really, wtf is wrong here? Lamb is one of the greatest works ever, and Script is wanabe material at best.
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And he took the stars
In his hands
And as he scattered them he’d shout
“I’m the joker of the universe
I’m what it’s all about”
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:38 |
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I dont really like the lamb, and I dont own Script, but I'm just gonna warn you, prepare for some personal opinions!
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:44 |
I have actually never heard Lamb, but I must tell you that other than Fish's vocal performance, I have never heard any similarities between the two bands. 'Wannabe' material it is not. Script is a very original album as far as I am concerned, and I have always enjoyed Marillion's music more than Genesis'. If the two bands sound exactly alike, I don't think people would be able to state a preferance.
Just my personal opinion.  |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:49 |
 schizoid_man77 wrote:
I dont really like the lamb, and I dont own Script, but I'm just gonna warn you, prepare for some personal opinions! |
haha,  , no insults!  ...
It's really complicated the top 100, if you're talking about that...
Check out symphonics top 20, there's not a single ELP! album!!! So?! It's just a bloody list, it's not really like that, I don't own none Marillion stuff, but I do have Lamb, I'm sure Lamb is better but still who cares if one is above other? If you know that lamb is better than SFAJT that's it.
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Clark Ashton
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 133
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:56 |
cacho wrote:
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I dont really like the lamb, and I dont own Script, but I'm just gonna warn you, prepare for some personal opinions! |
haha, , no insults! ...
It's really complicated the top 100, if you're talking about that...
Check out symphonics top 20, there's not a single ELP! album!!! So?! It's just a bloody list, it's not really like that, I don't own none Marillion stuff, but I do have Lamb, I'm sure Lamb is better but still who cares if one is above other? If you know that lamb is better than SFAJT that's it. |
You are so right! I know nobody is to blame because the list is a chaotic hodge-podge of random votes. But sometimes it's fun because people will bitch at me all the same.
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And he took the stars
In his hands
And as he scattered them he’d shout
“I’m the joker of the universe
I’m what it’s all about”
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 18:56 |
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I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.
I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis.
I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:04 |
Tony R wrote:
I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis. I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion.
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Sorry to say this but, I really prefer Lamb, not knowing Marillion, just Script's. Neo Prog has never been for me, none Genesis except for Lamb, SEBTP and Trespass.
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Clark Ashton
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 133
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:08 |
Tony R wrote:
I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.
I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis.
I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion.
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Thank you Tony for your pov, but VDGG is in my top 3 of all time, and I never saw a PH influence on Fish. Maybe he is, but it sounds to me like he's going for Gabriel.
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And he took the stars
In his hands
And as he scattered them he’d shout
“I’m the joker of the universe
I’m what it’s all about”
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:09 |
Neo-Prog and Symphonic Prog are two very different genres anyway. While the latter sticks to it's guns usually with the classical, softer influence, the former often mixed Space-Rock and Hard Rock with the Symphonic influence to make the sound much more accessible. Right?
So if we are going to compare these two albums, we must realize that they do not belong in the same sub-genre, therefore the ultimate outcome will be based on personal opinion, nothing more. Since both bands and albums have so many different aspects, I don't think it's fair to claim that one ripped-off the other, much less raise hell over the fact that one album outranks the other on some list that is based on nothing more that statistics.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:11 |
The Lamb is very good, I won't argue about that, but a bit like Tony R. said, I think there are too many people who say that Marillion are just clones.
I must say that pre-Script songs like Grendel and Market Square Heroes have a strong Genesis influence. But on Script, apart from the Genesis and Hammill influences, which are present, I think Marillion already present a very distinct sound of their own, and most of the compositions are quite good. Also, songs like Garden Party and Chelsea Monday are quite original.
Like Tony, I prefer Genesis to Marillion. I like The Lamb more than Script, but I think Script is a solid album nevertheless. No plagiarism at all.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:21 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 19:40 |
Dammit, I was hoping I would win a lifetime's supply of guitar strings! Where's my lawyer? 
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 20:01 |
Guess what? Your opinion is different from others' opinions. Whoop-de-freakin'-do. 
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 20:19 |
stonebeard wrote:
Guess what? Your opinion is different from others' opinions.
Whoop-de-freakin'-do.
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Awwn, now let's treat the guy with SOME respcet, at least. He DID after all say that he didn't want to argue. I think maybe he was just looking for an answer to why a seemingly imitation album in his eyes could be considered better than the original. Hopefully myself and others have already helped explain it to him.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 20:20 |
Clark Ashton wrote:
Tony R wrote:
I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis. I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion. |
Thank you Tony for your pov, but VDGG is in my top 3 of all time, and I never saw a PH influence on Fish. Maybe he is, but it sounds to me like he's going for Gabriel. |
Well it is a fact that Hamill is Fish's main vocal influence, not my opinion.
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keiser willhelm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 20:28 |
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^ well he did say script was wannabe material. them's fightin' words for some folks so id say he was looking for an argument.
Neither album appeals to me at all but i can hear a very clear VdGG and Genesis influence on Marillion that is at times, overpowering so i can see why some people would have a problem with it.
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 20:48 |
Tony R wrote:
Clark Ashton wrote:
Tony R wrote:
I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis. I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion. |
Thank you Tony for your pov, but VDGG is in my top 3 of all time, and I never saw a PH influence on Fish. Maybe he is, but it sounds to me like he's going for Gabriel. |
Well it is a fact that Hamill is Fish's main vocal influence, not my opinion.
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Fish of course has a very "Gabriel" tone but tone is less "influenced" and more just there. Fish has definitely learned his vocal inflection and phrasing under a major Hammill influence. (Which is good because he is a fantastic influence to have)
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: March 23 2008 at 23:42 |
But the rankings are temporary, I would love to see LTIA as PA´S numer one album.Also I THINK "In the land of grey and pink" deserves more than just top 50.And that genesis does not have two top 5 albums (they were top 3 sometimes , thats pretty scary)
I could go on and make a 2000 KMS post with this, but personally I think the Lamb is a huge load of crap, whereas Script was the rebirth of prog
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 00:25 |
crimson87 wrote:
But the rankings are temporary, I would love to see LTIA as PA´S numer one album.Also I THINK "In the land of grey and pink" deserves more than just top 50.And that genesis does not have two top 5 albums (they were top 3 sometimes , thats pretty scary)
I could go on and make a 2000 KMS post with this, but personally I think the Lamb is a huge load of crap, whereas Script was the rebirth of prog |
The rankings are temporary and meaningless, although cool to have around. I would say, any prog list that doesn't have ELP on the top 20 symphonic prog albums is a bit odd seeing that ELP were HUGE in their day and extremely influential regardless of whats been said against them. However, the rating system would be very hard to change and does a good job at what it is...their could be a "most influential album" list...lol
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 07:58 |
Clark Ashton wrote:
Tony R wrote:
I think that "The Lamb" polarises opinion amongst Genesis fans and therefore has received some less than favourable reviews. The Top 100 is based on reviews and on average "Script" has received more favourable reviews.
I think that the "Marillion plagiarise Genesis" argument is overplayed. For starters Fish is supposed to imitate Peter Gabriel whereas any prog fan with the most basic knowledge and powers of hearing can hear a far stronger Hammill influence. VDGG appear to me to be a far bigger influence on Marillion overall than Genesis.
I think that Script is a far better album than "The Lamb" and this is coming from someone who prefers Genesis to Marillion.
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Thank you Tony for your pov, but VDGG is in my top 3 of all time, and I never saw a PH influence on Fish. Maybe he is, but it sounds to me like he's going for Gabriel. |
First, I agree with what Tony posted. Second, since all three vocalists use the same, distinctly theatrical style of singing, to say that there is no similarity between PH and Fish is silly, as they both aproach the style from a more visceral angle than Gabriel did.
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Script For A Jester's Tear#25 & Lamb Lies Down #80
